2018 Olympic Figure Skating Mens SP

[GGFan]

Probably, not the only one. You are welcome to your opinion. But, I don't think he was underscored. His SS are not the best and I am not impressed with the transitions. (the judges weren't either that was his lowest mark --deservedly) He has a lovely innate musicality but the program itself is not challenging or particularly interesting. I think he is a skater with great potential to grow but I think his PCS marks were absolutely fair here.

Agreed. It's not that I think either his skating skills or transitions are bad, it's just that they're not consistently excellent throughout the program like the very top men. He has nice flow and he has moments where he holds beautiful edges, or does a very difficult turn or transition. I think with some offseason work and some more complex choreography that could all be remedied. Of course he'll need to stay healthy. All of that to say that the potential is there for 9s.

 

[fredtx121]

Nathans short program outfit reminds me of what the killer whale trainers wore at sea world during shows

 

[Fool]

To me the whole Nathan thing was good for getting people in the US (casual fans) to watch but bad for Nathan. And bad for people who are now disappointed and saying stupid things like "Nathan let them down". That's crud. Nathan owes you nothing. But the media tried to turn him into Hanyu. That was grossly unfair to Nathan.

They should have said something like: "Nathan has an excellent chance to medal here if he skates cleanly. If Hanyu brings his A or even B game he is going to be hard to beat."

In some ways I think it's NBC's job to explain that to casual viewers. No one was going to beat a clean Hanyu. Fernandez and Chan of old are the only two who really have a chance at all to be close.

We see this so often. The American media gets a whiff of medal hope and they go overboard with hype and the sponsors follow. It's unfair to the skaters and I believe it can actually stifle their growth. Coming into these events with that amount of attention and pressure is different than going in with mehh expectations for sure. I guess it was worse with Nathan this year because they sensed not just a medal but gold (again like you mentioned IFFFF a lot of things went according to plan, including things beyond his control) and it's going to be disgusting to me if (when? :sarcasm that same hype machine turns on him for this. He's still a teenager, if supported right he could develop into a great skater who achieves more amazing things but instead I suspect the worst.

 

[Yuzuruu]

No reason to get so worked up. :reye:I don't know what Yuzuru is thinking, I don't know what Javier is thinking and I don't know what Shoma is thinking. I've been watching their reactions in the KnC for years now, and all three of them look different when they get a huge score or a score that's higher than expected. These are my assumptions. Well, whatever.

I agree, they seemed much calmer than usually, especially Yuzu and Javi, I think Shoma looked as if he expected it but still dissapointed as well.

And let me just add - I am so happy for the big four!!! :luv17: I have burst into tears of joy when Yuzu finished and then after Javi I just lost it altogether and cried like a baby, and it was like 6:00 a.m. in my timezone

 

[[email protected]]

No reason to get so worked up. :reye:I don't know what Yuzuru is thinking, I don't know what Javier is thinking and I don't know what Shoma is thinking. I've been watching their reactions in the KnC for years now, and all three of them look different when they get a huge score or a score that's higher than expected. These are my assumptions. Well, whatever.

Well, I cannot reflect on their reactions over the years - I can say little about it. My point was about your saying that it was no "Olympic inflation" with some unnecessary twist: "let's wait for the ladies". What I was trying to say is that Yuzuru's score was close to theoretical maximum for the content he offered. Hence, it's kind of difficult to expect further "Olympic inflation" when you already reached the limit.

 

[readernick]

To me the whole Nathan thing was good for getting people in the US (casual fans) to watch but bad for Nathan. And bad for people who are now disappointed and saying stupid things like "Nathan let them down". That's crud. Nathan owes you nothing. But the media tried to turn him into Hanyu. That was grossly unfair to Nathan.

They should have said something like: "Nathan has an excellent chance to medal here if he skates cleanly. If Hanyu brings his A or even B game he is going to be hard to beat."

In some ways I think it's NBC's job to explain that to casual viewers. No one was going to beat a clean Hanyu. Fernandez and Chan of old are the only two who really have a chance at all to be close.

I agree with this. A clean Nathan was never going to lead a clean Yuzuru or Javier in the short program. His BV in the long could have easily overtaken the other two if he was clean and they made a mistake or two (4CC last year). I think this still applies to Shoma in the long. He won't beat a perfectly clean Yuzuru or Javier but he could certainly take advantage of even a minor mistake because his BV is higher. Nathan had a legitmate shot of the podium but it certainly was not guarenteed. In fact, in men's figure skating no one is guarenteed a medal because there are so many difficult elements and so many falls. NBC's coverage was irresponsible. However, in the end it was Nathan who did not stand up to pressure. But, lets keep in mind he is 18 years old. Hanyu, was struggling mentally at that age, who doesn't. I just think that Brian Oser realizes the human component in skating better than Nathan's coach. Nathan is physically well trained,but I think that because he is someone who is quiet and does not show his feelings very much on the outside his coach may not realize that he needs help with confidence. I hope he gets it. The same with Mikhail Kolyada.

 

[readernick]

Agreed. It's not that I think either his skating skills or transitions are bad, it's just that they're not consistently excellent throughout the program like the very top men. He has nice flow and he has moments where he holds beautiful edges, or does a very difficult turn or transition. I think with some offseason work and some more complex choreography that could all be remedied. Of course he'll need to stay healthy. All of that to say that the potential is there for 9s.

Agree, so much potential.

 

[Fool]

It just dawned on me that at least one of the top 4 won't medal. I'm not ready to think about who that might be... Especially since they all did so well. But who knows what happens tonight. If all 4 went clean (heyyy it *could* happen) it would be gutting.

I watched the Swedish version of Eurosport and they were surprisingly muted in their Hanyu response, and in advance thought Chen would be it, including that he had "the best choreographed SP of the men's field" (a bold claim for non-NBC no?). I appreciate the different perspective honestly, even if I don't agree.

 

[MaiKatze]

Well, I cannot reflect on their reactions over the years - I can say little about it. My point was about your saying that it was no "Olympic inflation" with some unnecessary twist: "let's wait for the ladies". What I was trying to say is that Yuzuru's score was close to theoretical maximum for the content he offered. Hence, it's kind of difficult to expect further "Olympic inflation" when you already reached the limit.

Yuzuru's World record is from a small challenger event, over 112 points. So when he skated a clean short at the Olympics don't you think he perhaps thought he would break that record? It's usually at the Olympics that new World records happen. Concerning your Ladies comment, please don't get paranoid. It was a general remark for ALL the Ladies and not a shot at any specific skater. Don't read something into it that wasn't there.

 

[readernick]

This. I know that USA wanted a gold in figure skating and Nathan was the only one who maybe could have gotten it if the other big four made some mistakes but as the moment of truth was approaching I saw like a thousand articles from U.S. media about how it is basically certain that Nathan is getting the gold cause he is the Quad King and Yuzu was injured, and Nathan has more difficult quads and higher base value etc. while they refuse to mention even once that Nathan is a bit unstable with his jumps, and artistically he's not there yet, but he is obviously improving (love his SP this season)! I grew so sick of this, I mean regardless of the fact that I am a Yuzu fan, I liked Nathan and hoped that he will develop nicely over the years but now I like him a bit less because of the stupid media hype and I hate myself for it

I think a clean Nathan could easily beat a clean Boyang Jin. I mean Nathan isn't Chan artistically but he is better than Boyang Jin. And, a clean Nathan vs a clean Shoma would be a hard outcome to call. (and I say this as someone who loves Shoma.. so so much) So, I would say if the top two made some mistakes Nathan could win or be second not the top 4. But, I do agree that the US media was highly irresponsible. This is one reason I hate nationalism in figure skating it leads to people not understanding the true situation that awaits their favorite skaters.

 

[Yuzuruu]

I agree with this. A clean Nathan was never going to lead a clean Yuzuru or Javier in the short program. His BV in the long could have easily overtaken the other two if he was clean and they made a mistake or two (4CC last year). I think this still applies to Shoma in the long. He won't beat a perfectly clean Yuzuru or Javier but he could certainly take advantage of even a minor mistake because his BV is higher. Nathan had a legitmate shot of the podium but it certainly was not guarenteed. In fact, in men's figure skating no one is guarenteed a medal because there are so many difficult elements and so many falls. NBC's coverage was irresponsible. However, in the end it was Nathan who did not stand up to pressure. But, lets keep in mind he is 18 years old. Hanyu, was struggling mentally at that age, who doesn't. I just think that Brian Oser realizes the human component in skating better than Nathan's coach. Nathan is physically well trained,but I think that because he is someone who is quiet and does not show his feelings very much on the outside his coach may not realize that he needs help with confidence. I hope he gets it. The same with Mikhail Kolyada.

Well, Hanyu won an olympic gold at that age so to be fair I think he was mentally stronger than Nathan is at the same age, but I also believe that Yuzu had much better mental conditioning from a younger age. I also strongly agree with the Orser/Arutunian remark. Orser seems to be ALWAYS there for his skaters, even when they have a bad day and fall. Raphael seems so distant and angry, but then again maybe its just the way he looks, I do not judge him cause I don't know him personally.

 

[readernick]

It just dawned on me that at least one of the top 4 won't medal. I'm not ready to think about who that might be... Especially since they all did so well. But who knows what happens tonight. If all 4 went clean (heyyy it *could* happen) it would be gutting.

I watched the Swedish version of Eurosport and they were surprisingly muted in their Hanyu response, and in advance thought Chen would be it, including that he had "the best choreographed SP of the men's field" (a bold claim for non-NBC no?). I appreciate the different perspective honestly, even if I don't agree.

I like Shoma's short program a bit better than Nathan's. But, I think they are both better than the other skaters who were seen as vying for medals. Javier's program is cute and well performed but not that stunning to me and Hanyu's is great but we have seen it so so many times before

 

[Mista Ekko]

Am I the only one who thinks that Aliev was heavily underscored in PCS? Even Ge's PCS are higher. :no:

I think if his Federation had his back a bit more you would’ve seen a 100
Possibly from GOEs though

He was surprisingly impressive
I find myself really rooting for him now

 

[silverfoxes]

I think a clean Nathan could easily beat a clean Boyang Jin. I mean Nathan isn't Chan artistically but he is better than Boyang Jin.

Not in my book, he isn't. I don't see it at all. He just uses more pretentious music but he doesn't particularly interpret it well, especially that FS.

 

[[email protected]]

Ok, to end up this discussion before going to bed (go to see free program tomorrow) I "got worked up" a little bit more - nothing difficult in fact - to come up with 114.5 as the maximum possible score for Hanyu's program with all +3s and 50 pcs. He missed it by just 2.8 points. But he is not the god, is he?

It could be 115 if he had level 4 spin instead of level 3.

 

[readernick]

Well, Hanyu won an olympic gold at that age so to be fair I think he was mentally stronger than Nathan is at the same age, but I also believe that Yuzu had much better mental conditioning from a younger age. I also strongly agree with the Orser/Arutunian remark. Orser seems to be ALWAYS there for his skaters, even when they have a bad day and fall. Raphael seems so distant and angry, but then again maybe its just the way he looks, I do not judge him cause I don't know him personally.

He was 19, I believe?? and he had participated at the two previous world championships. So, he had more experience than Nathan and had definitely gone through some ups and down. I think my comment has merit. But, Yuzuru definitely has better mental conditioning. No doubt about that. I think Raphael really loves Nathan. Definitely, his favorite student. But, Hanyu has a whole team of people helping him prepare physically and mentally. I don't think Nathan has that. Probably, because he seems so business like but you know "quiet waters run deep" and I think under that calm exterior is a huge mess of emotions that need to be dealt with.

 

[MaiKatze]

Ok, to end up this discussion before going to bed (go to see free program tomorrow) I "got worked up" a little bit more - nothing difficult in fact - to come up with 114.5 as the maximum possible score for Hanyu's program with all +3s and 50 pcs. He missed it by just 2.8 points. But he is not the god, is he?

It could be 115 if he had level 4 spin instead of level 3.

Did you see it live tonight? It's a super score, and I'm sure Yuzuru is thrilled about it. But once you've reached 112, 111 isn't the same score anymore. Once you've reached 109, like Fernandez, 107 is high, but not as high. It's only human to expect a higher score than before and especially at the Olympics. Aliona/Bruno's GPF Long, to be honest, I think it was better than in Pyeongchang. They got a new record anyway. It's the Olympics.

 

[readernick]

Not in my book, he isn't. I don't see it at all. He just uses more pretentious music but he doesn't particularly interpret it well, especially that FS.

Agree to disagree. But, watch the difference between their edge work, transitions, and the upper body movements. Boyang Jin does okay in his short program (although it is mostly crossovers) but the long is a struggle to watch. (at least for me, if you like it, great!)

 

[eaglehelang]

Per that article I posted, it actually quoted him as saying "I'm done... I retired." It may have been an informal retirement but that was the decision. You don't formally announce your retirement if you don't think people will care. Who would he announce it to? Most Filipinos don't even know his name, and the figure skating community in general wouldn't really care too much since he's not a top skater. All he needs to do to "retire" is just drop out from the scene.

It may not have been a wise decision, but I feel he lost motivation. He had been told a few weeks before that it isn't happening and all the countries had confirmed their slots. Even previously, he was well aware that without a quad, and being from the country he's from, he's unlikely to get anywhere. Again, it's been an uphill battle. Figure skating is a difficult sport as it is, try doing it with very little support from anywhere, coming from a country with no snow, which struggles with bigger problems, and coming also from a non-figure skating family. I had wondered before what motivates the lower-tier skaters to continue on with this difficult and expensive sport, so it's not surprising that they lose motivation.

Makes me recall the discussion on the team event, how it's biased towards certain countries. News flash: Figure skating itself is biased towards certain countries. How often do you get medalists from countries without winter? Or less well-off countries where figure skating is an impractical sport? This is another reason why Denis Ten is someone to admire. And also part of the reason why I'm now heartbroken that he didn't make the free skate.

Well, that became quite long.

And to the person who apologized that they like Shoma and want him to medal, don't apologize for liking anyone. We like whom we like because we like them, you don't need to apologize for it. You don't need to justify it or have a reason for it. Figure skating is a sport, and also an art- and which art you prefer is a personal calling. Which skater you like is personal and emotional, and there is no right or wrong answer. You shouldn't let anyone influence you in your decision.

Who from SEA countries would be from skating family? Nobody. He has Julian Yee to accompany him, or Martinez feel that now Julian is the no 1 SEA guy he has no chance ? Julian is also self funded btw except for a few of the qualfying competitions

 

[Koralai]

Anyone else love reading Dick Button on twitter... loved having him participate even if we see things differently at times. His mind and wit are as sharp as ever. Hoping he sends Nathan some advice...

I just want to say ! I had no idea Dick Button was on Twitter. I love his commentary and will enjoy poring through his tweets from this Olympics.