2018 Olympic Figure Skating Pairs SP
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- Feb 11, 2018
It's not boring to me, but more bizarre? Definitely not a good showcase of their otherwise great technical prowess. The lyrics also make me
and there's no connection to that, which is ... maybe even good?? It's one of the most confusing music choices this year, I think I would've taken Moulin Rouge program #17 over this choice.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
Not liking the candyman and the costumes does not mean that the skating isn't good. Taste is completely subjective and I don't think everybody finds T/M boring. I surely don't. The music is completely tacky for my liking but I feel the same for most of the sappy Adele-type ballads out there. I hope all the pairs skate their best in the free but man I am so bummed for Aliona, I think I totally jinxed her :sad4:
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
My heart is breaking into piece for Aliona.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
Finally caught up!
-MARCHEI AND HOTAREK!!! So proud of them <3 they are giving their all
-The look Aliona gave Bruno at the end was scary, when she asked him 'did you double?' - I'm sad for them, they might have blown their chance for gold
-Sui/Han!!! Amazing!! I hope they win this
-Tarasova/Morozov - I hate their programs, especially the FS, but technically they are absolutely divine.
-Duhamel/Radford - I really just can't bring myself to like them :\
-MARCHEI AND HOTAREK!!! So proud of them <3 they are giving their all
-The look Aliona gave Bruno at the end was scary, when she asked him 'did you double?' - I'm sad for them, they might have blown their chance for gold
-Sui/Han!!! Amazing!! I hope they win this
-Tarasova/Morozov - I hate their programs, especially the FS, but technically they are absolutely divine.
-Duhamel/Radford - I really just can't bring myself to like them :\
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
But if I want a bad boy to pop my cherry, I'd take Volodya anytime over (really, really boring) Bruno
Sorry, who is Volodya?
- Joined
- May 4, 2016
Vladimir = Volodya
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Sui/Han's PCS for that program just seem low to me. It was a MOMENT. But their PCS is about equal to Alina Zagitova's. It's a real head scratcher for what was a truly sublime performance.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
Sorry, Vladimir Morozov.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
Isn’t it a bit harsh to say that all the Russians do is cheat? We need to remember that PCS isn’t all about the choice of music and what appeals to an individual. While I do agree that T/M’s PCS was high or at least the gap between them and S/H was too small, I feel like saying that all the Russians do is cheat seems a bit unfair.
i would have thrown more pcs at m/h. they should be ahead of j/c (tentative and slow, little energy) and y/z (bad cuts, no originality).
also not sure why the gap between s/h and t/m is so small... it's not like the latter have an actual program.
overall it was a great even though. sorry for bruno, he looked so sad in k&c...
also not sure why the gap between s/h and t/m is so small... it's not like the latter have an actual program.
overall it was a great even though. sorry for bruno, he looked so sad in k&c...
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
Day one of 4-days-skating-insomnia-in-Europe challenge survived
, I have to say, what a level of competition and performances produced!
I am really with those who already expressed a wish that all 22 teams would have a chance to do FS, it is such a pity to have this cut at Olympics, where we have Pairs' discipline level as high as presently. Generally, the discipline as a whole progressed for me mostly - and most importantly - in terms of being plain attractive and interesting to watch for casual viewer; programs in design department, musical choices, performance level went all up several good notches, leading to having not 3, not 5, but top 10 pairs scored 70+in SP, almost all pretty easy to differentiate by style of the team. This last thing touches another important aspect of Pairs skating I saw today as a fruit of past quad - Pairs skating got much more personalized, refined in terms of packaging and paying attention to the fit of elements, not only to them being cleanly executed; I really feel that Pairs' programs have stretched 'artistically', departing from classical/warhorse only music and this 'static' image. So great to see teams striving on performing like James/Cipres, Marchei/Hotarek, with programs that may not fit this usual Pair image, but still effective with capability to score high and get them places.
I am very impressed by Meagan and Eric to be honest, even just from the fact of them being 'veterans', having this injury last season AND being just fresh after TE both programs - such drive, competitive spirit and composure. Yes, this is another program and Pair not really fitting into typical classical, statuesque image of a team, but they really managed to get their own mark during last quad and still going strong, with rare (and very important) ability to concentrate energy and focus to peak at the right moment, which seems to be the case now (once again). I do think that despite not having this universally appealing image/skill/presentation quality around them, they really capture the spirit of their programs greatly and give them competitive push to let them shine at the occasion. Like I said in TE thread - Meagan's energetic, dynamic yin is a perfect match to Eric's more subdued, elegant yang; they have the exact same level of poise in performance though and I really feel that they both are connecting strongly with music, lyrics, choreography. And I love that this is the Pair that is not shy about being athletic, having more non-classical approach/style towards discipline and working it for their own benefit, honestly I am all about Meagan's beautifully defined muscles on display and Eric's mesh top accentuating his physique, their powerful presentation.
Valentina and Ondrej sure are having quite a ball at this Olympics - this is for me a duo with perfect balance between competitiveness and visible enjoyment about performing. Yes, their programs may seem to be 'cheesy', but that's exactly what their style is about - their team spirit is about entertainment, to themselves and people watching; they strive on engaging audiences and donning as much character as possible, which is their big strength among all pairs. They simply make a show out of their every program: they have great chemistry and dynamics between them, feeling comfortable and confident with being a bit OTT with acting, gesticulation. This is the team that pulls it all off for their benefit, not many other ones would get away with this kind of programs' attitude in competition with such scores. I am always happy to see both of them being very prominent personalities separately, yet making the team work effortless - Valentina's effort especially is worth every praise possible for me: such easy transition from Ladies field, such development, joy radiating from her. I really wish for few seasons more, because they are giving this 'oomph' and enjoyment factor to every competition, laced with style, sophistication, determination.
Vanessa and Morgan brought the sizzle, seductive vibe, some kind of sensual edge, not only present in their choreography, but mostly in energy between them. So glad to see them going sharper than in TE: it just flowed today, they were maybe a tad slower I'd like, but better cautious than throw yourself into it on a full force, especially with Vanessa's injury happened before Nationals. Some transitions are just sooo yummy to see, so into music: entrance into lift, step sequence, intro sequence...They really make that music elevated by the way they move, the way choreography is designed; the whole experience feels almost 'cinematic', the story is so well portrayed, moment is so vivid and they are so well defined in it. This 'now' factor is in their every work for past 2 seasons - this is probably the only Pair which can draw me like that by program to a song with lyrics, a contemporary/pop one to add. For me, they are introducing this another Pairs skating quality nowadays - edgy, fresh, non-classical take on skills' presentation, program construction, connection between partners expressed on more 'physical' level. And again, like with Marchei/Hotarek, they are able to pull it off competition-wise, which is not so obvious, looking at judges' preferences still going strong for classical, 'static' image of Pairs; they for me represent more 'emotional' approach on presentation, this affectionate flirt happening between then, the music, movement which draws audience. I just hope that 'Sound of silence' FS will bring the house - and the whole world watching - down tomorrow, because the program is one, big, palpable emotion to be moved with.
With Aljona and Bruno...Well, the sadness is real, no doubt about that, but the important thing to get I think is that there is just much bigger scale/perspective for what happened regarding Aljona, hence the emphasis voiced by many of us is mostly focused on her. Of course I feel for Bruno and I understand that he carries not only a self-pressure, but also a pressure to do well for Aljona's sake, he sure is disappointed, but so is Aljona, which he really gets, too based on what he said after SP. Her ultimate goal is to get this Gold which she not yet has in her stable - and the history repeats again for the third quad. I mean - there should be no wonder, why we probably collective feel sorry for Aljona, expressing it out loud, she is a large part in making Bruno skater, competitor, contender he's now, after all. The performance itself was not bad - it was actually very easy, effortless and breezy, with right dose of cheekiness and polish, very entertaining, engaging program, right for Olympics (still missing 'Fuego' SP to be honest and that step sequence...); it just had to be skated to the perfection to bring out the right marks, because the impression was surely made. They've already developed a sound presence and style in competition - heck, Aljona alone could do a one-man show, because all eyes gravitates to her, she simply captures attention, but in my opinion Bruno has progressed in strides in that department. Actually, I find Aljona's presence more profound and exposed with Bruno, due to height/frame difference and this incredible strength Bruno has, athletic power in lifts, transitions. Whatever they would go for in FS, it sure will be a nail-bitter for people watching. Personally, I hope for GPF-like performance or making it beyond that, skating for themselves, not really paying attention to others, in which going first in final group could help tremendously.
And top two...First of all, for me both teams really produced best quality stuff out there that finds its audience, I am no one to negate skills they have and execution they are able to put out in competition. Saying that, personally I have totally different feelings/impressions about performances and presentation components when we take programs and teams performing them, outside of how they execute stuff.
I totally respect Evgenia and Vladimir for channelling that 'vintage' classical pair image nowadays with success - they are beautifully put together, their skills are very smooth, they have this speed and sharpness of best teams, but the thing for me is that all of this positive quality gets often downgraded by their packaging, the focus is derailed to stuff surrounding them, losing ability to appreciate them. I find them both quite youthful, vibrant, joyous off-ice, outside of competition stuff, with that more lyrical flair than pure all-around classic image to be honest - I really, really wonder sometimes what is the problem to give them a program that would a. have well-cut music, b. reflect more of their personalities/character than just mechanically utilize their skills and c. be more universally accessible, with 'now' factor? It's a mystery for me. Aside of packaging problems I have perceiving this great team, their programs make me see them mostly as great skaters, 'executors' of elements, not performers, 'interpretators', 'creators' of moments to get connected on more emotional level. Of course, scores are saying that everything is all right with their programs, but I do wonder, if this TES influence on PCS thing went too far - a team can really excel in execution of their program, but does it make the program great automatically, its interpretation, timing, construction etc.? I'm just not sure about that. Evgenia/Vladimir's programs, how they are presenting them looking at some other top teams out there, makes me think about one more issue - their skating's presentation seems often 'harsher' and more forced/rehearsed than others, and don't get me wrong - I do appreciate their control during performance, endurance, but the way it is displayed sometimes makes them looking like 'going through the motions' and 'disconnected' with music/theme of the program. It is just my personal impression. I would never deny their technical score and expertise in execution, when done like today, but I wish, I really wish for a better 'frame' to admire it, more 'punch' created between music, movement, expression, especially looking how Pairs skating progressed in that area in the past quad...
With Wenjing and Cong, it's kind of opposite to the above said - despite not always perfect execution, their presentation, skating's showcase seems very 'organic', naturally flowing alongside music, adapting their skills to the style of the music/program. They may be not as statuesque, classically-looking pair, but it's their package, styling and engagement put into it that often elevates them/makes them so 'approachable' and easy to appreciate all-around as a team. I think that this Hallelujah SP exudes maturity and immense control over performance, feel/mood of it, making the moment, some kind of emotional message/statement sent out to the crowd - the execution (a perfect one like today's) just blends seamlessly inside of performance, creation of it. Yes, creation - this is exactly what I find lacking in Evgenia/Vladimir's performances, this process of moulding the program to them in more individual/personal sense, this 'attachment' presented out loud, emotion of the moment that was made during performance by skaters from sum of different aspects, but was not assumed as given/was not there as a part of choreography or music. I really don't know, if it was the quality of stream (lol) or just them, but every word, every note just sang through their bodies today as a symphony - I could really feel the music flowing through them, not only in the arena as an addition to the visual (skating); every landing, connection, entrance, dismount, turn, slide, step were so in sych with the music AND with lyrics (!), telling the story, drawing people inside. One thing is to make a musical choreography, but another one is to translate the design - even the most beautiful - onto ice, yet they managed to do it so tenderly, with sensibility and consciousness not only about their skating/execution, but how it should reflect, influence those who are in front of them. The program may look simplistic, but it's usually the most difficult thing to mirror that 'easiness' in the performance/presentation - I think that Wenjing and Cong are one of those skaters who as a team are able to drift effortlessly between technical exquisiteness and vivid, personally-invested, cared about presentation/interpretation, making the program not only work, but also moving and be felt. This is a result of a hard work, but at the same time, seeing them producing performances of that calibre year after year, getting better, it's hard to imagine it happening without natural talent and individual sensibility over various aspects of skating and performing. Yet, it being constantly pushed further, to my amazement.
, I have to say, what a level of competition and performances produced! I am really with those who already expressed a wish that all 22 teams would have a chance to do FS, it is such a pity to have this cut at Olympics, where we have Pairs' discipline level as high as presently. Generally, the discipline as a whole progressed for me mostly - and most importantly - in terms of being plain attractive and interesting to watch for casual viewer; programs in design department, musical choices, performance level went all up several good notches, leading to having not 3, not 5, but top 10 pairs scored 70+in SP, almost all pretty easy to differentiate by style of the team. This last thing touches another important aspect of Pairs skating I saw today as a fruit of past quad - Pairs skating got much more personalized, refined in terms of packaging and paying attention to the fit of elements, not only to them being cleanly executed; I really feel that Pairs' programs have stretched 'artistically', departing from classical/warhorse only music and this 'static' image. So great to see teams striving on performing like James/Cipres, Marchei/Hotarek, with programs that may not fit this usual Pair image, but still effective with capability to score high and get them places.I am very impressed by Meagan and Eric to be honest, even just from the fact of them being 'veterans', having this injury last season AND being just fresh after TE both programs - such drive, competitive spirit and composure. Yes, this is another program and Pair not really fitting into typical classical, statuesque image of a team, but they really managed to get their own mark during last quad and still going strong, with rare (and very important) ability to concentrate energy and focus to peak at the right moment, which seems to be the case now (once again). I do think that despite not having this universally appealing image/skill/presentation quality around them, they really capture the spirit of their programs greatly and give them competitive push to let them shine at the occasion. Like I said in TE thread - Meagan's energetic, dynamic yin is a perfect match to Eric's more subdued, elegant yang; they have the exact same level of poise in performance though and I really feel that they both are connecting strongly with music, lyrics, choreography. And I love that this is the Pair that is not shy about being athletic, having more non-classical approach/style towards discipline and working it for their own benefit, honestly I am all about Meagan's beautifully defined muscles on display and Eric's mesh top accentuating his physique, their powerful presentation.
Valentina and Ondrej sure are having quite a ball at this Olympics - this is for me a duo with perfect balance between competitiveness and visible enjoyment about performing. Yes, their programs may seem to be 'cheesy', but that's exactly what their style is about - their team spirit is about entertainment, to themselves and people watching; they strive on engaging audiences and donning as much character as possible, which is their big strength among all pairs. They simply make a show out of their every program: they have great chemistry and dynamics between them, feeling comfortable and confident with being a bit OTT with acting, gesticulation. This is the team that pulls it all off for their benefit, not many other ones would get away with this kind of programs' attitude in competition with such scores. I am always happy to see both of them being very prominent personalities separately, yet making the team work effortless - Valentina's effort especially is worth every praise possible for me: such easy transition from Ladies field, such development, joy radiating from her. I really wish for few seasons more, because they are giving this 'oomph' and enjoyment factor to every competition, laced with style, sophistication, determination.
Vanessa and Morgan brought the sizzle, seductive vibe, some kind of sensual edge, not only present in their choreography, but mostly in energy between them. So glad to see them going sharper than in TE: it just flowed today, they were maybe a tad slower I'd like, but better cautious than throw yourself into it on a full force, especially with Vanessa's injury happened before Nationals. Some transitions are just sooo yummy to see, so into music: entrance into lift, step sequence, intro sequence...They really make that music elevated by the way they move, the way choreography is designed; the whole experience feels almost 'cinematic', the story is so well portrayed, moment is so vivid and they are so well defined in it. This 'now' factor is in their every work for past 2 seasons - this is probably the only Pair which can draw me like that by program to a song with lyrics, a contemporary/pop one to add. For me, they are introducing this another Pairs skating quality nowadays - edgy, fresh, non-classical take on skills' presentation, program construction, connection between partners expressed on more 'physical' level. And again, like with Marchei/Hotarek, they are able to pull it off competition-wise, which is not so obvious, looking at judges' preferences still going strong for classical, 'static' image of Pairs; they for me represent more 'emotional' approach on presentation, this affectionate flirt happening between then, the music, movement which draws audience. I just hope that 'Sound of silence' FS will bring the house - and the whole world watching - down tomorrow, because the program is one, big, palpable emotion to be moved with.
With Aljona and Bruno...Well, the sadness is real, no doubt about that, but the important thing to get I think is that there is just much bigger scale/perspective for what happened regarding Aljona, hence the emphasis voiced by many of us is mostly focused on her. Of course I feel for Bruno and I understand that he carries not only a self-pressure, but also a pressure to do well for Aljona's sake, he sure is disappointed, but so is Aljona, which he really gets, too based on what he said after SP. Her ultimate goal is to get this Gold which she not yet has in her stable - and the history repeats again for the third quad. I mean - there should be no wonder, why we probably collective feel sorry for Aljona, expressing it out loud, she is a large part in making Bruno skater, competitor, contender he's now, after all. The performance itself was not bad - it was actually very easy, effortless and breezy, with right dose of cheekiness and polish, very entertaining, engaging program, right for Olympics (still missing 'Fuego' SP to be honest and that step sequence...); it just had to be skated to the perfection to bring out the right marks, because the impression was surely made. They've already developed a sound presence and style in competition - heck, Aljona alone could do a one-man show, because all eyes gravitates to her, she simply captures attention, but in my opinion Bruno has progressed in strides in that department. Actually, I find Aljona's presence more profound and exposed with Bruno, due to height/frame difference and this incredible strength Bruno has, athletic power in lifts, transitions. Whatever they would go for in FS, it sure will be a nail-bitter for people watching. Personally, I hope for GPF-like performance or making it beyond that, skating for themselves, not really paying attention to others, in which going first in final group could help tremendously.
And top two...First of all, for me both teams really produced best quality stuff out there that finds its audience, I am no one to negate skills they have and execution they are able to put out in competition. Saying that, personally I have totally different feelings/impressions about performances and presentation components when we take programs and teams performing them, outside of how they execute stuff.
I totally respect Evgenia and Vladimir for channelling that 'vintage' classical pair image nowadays with success - they are beautifully put together, their skills are very smooth, they have this speed and sharpness of best teams, but the thing for me is that all of this positive quality gets often downgraded by their packaging, the focus is derailed to stuff surrounding them, losing ability to appreciate them. I find them both quite youthful, vibrant, joyous off-ice, outside of competition stuff, with that more lyrical flair than pure all-around classic image to be honest - I really, really wonder sometimes what is the problem to give them a program that would a. have well-cut music, b. reflect more of their personalities/character than just mechanically utilize their skills and c. be more universally accessible, with 'now' factor? It's a mystery for me. Aside of packaging problems I have perceiving this great team, their programs make me see them mostly as great skaters, 'executors' of elements, not performers, 'interpretators', 'creators' of moments to get connected on more emotional level. Of course, scores are saying that everything is all right with their programs, but I do wonder, if this TES influence on PCS thing went too far - a team can really excel in execution of their program, but does it make the program great automatically, its interpretation, timing, construction etc.? I'm just not sure about that. Evgenia/Vladimir's programs, how they are presenting them looking at some other top teams out there, makes me think about one more issue - their skating's presentation seems often 'harsher' and more forced/rehearsed than others, and don't get me wrong - I do appreciate their control during performance, endurance, but the way it is displayed sometimes makes them looking like 'going through the motions' and 'disconnected' with music/theme of the program. It is just my personal impression. I would never deny their technical score and expertise in execution, when done like today, but I wish, I really wish for a better 'frame' to admire it, more 'punch' created between music, movement, expression, especially looking how Pairs skating progressed in that area in the past quad...
With Wenjing and Cong, it's kind of opposite to the above said - despite not always perfect execution, their presentation, skating's showcase seems very 'organic', naturally flowing alongside music, adapting their skills to the style of the music/program. They may be not as statuesque, classically-looking pair, but it's their package, styling and engagement put into it that often elevates them/makes them so 'approachable' and easy to appreciate all-around as a team. I think that this Hallelujah SP exudes maturity and immense control over performance, feel/mood of it, making the moment, some kind of emotional message/statement sent out to the crowd - the execution (a perfect one like today's) just blends seamlessly inside of performance, creation of it. Yes, creation - this is exactly what I find lacking in Evgenia/Vladimir's performances, this process of moulding the program to them in more individual/personal sense, this 'attachment' presented out loud, emotion of the moment that was made during performance by skaters from sum of different aspects, but was not assumed as given/was not there as a part of choreography or music. I really don't know, if it was the quality of stream (lol) or just them, but every word, every note just sang through their bodies today as a symphony - I could really feel the music flowing through them, not only in the arena as an addition to the visual (skating); every landing, connection, entrance, dismount, turn, slide, step were so in sych with the music AND with lyrics (!), telling the story, drawing people inside. One thing is to make a musical choreography, but another one is to translate the design - even the most beautiful - onto ice, yet they managed to do it so tenderly, with sensibility and consciousness not only about their skating/execution, but how it should reflect, influence those who are in front of them. The program may look simplistic, but it's usually the most difficult thing to mirror that 'easiness' in the performance/presentation - I think that Wenjing and Cong are one of those skaters who as a team are able to drift effortlessly between technical exquisiteness and vivid, personally-invested, cared about presentation/interpretation, making the program not only work, but also moving and be felt. This is a result of a hard work, but at the same time, seeing them producing performances of that calibre year after year, getting better, it's hard to imagine it happening without natural talent and individual sensibility over various aspects of skating and performing. Yet, it being constantly pushed further, to my amazement.
I like Chafik Besseghiers taxi driver SP program, too, but that doesn't mean he should get the same program PCS as Yuzuru Hanyu. I don't dislike T/M as skaters, I think they have very nice SS and lines, but this program is just objectively bad. The concept doesn't help and the performance and interpretation is just bizarre. Are there people out there who like that? Sure. Does that mean, that they should just score sky-high PCS - practically the same as Sui/Han and more than Savchenko/Massot, James/Cipres etc.? No.
Of course, other pair team have their strengths and weaknesses, too.
- Duhamel/Radford are not the best pair skaters and don't have the best SS and lines - but that's why they don't get the same PCS as for example Sui/Han.
- Savchenko/Massot are also an unbalanced pair with Aliona being the star, but they have strengths that T/M lack like performance, interpretation and their SS are not bad either
- Sui/Han are truly skating as a pair, with great SS and on top of that good lines, programs, performance, interpretation... It's puzzling that T/M who have more weaknesses than SUI/han in the PCS area are practically getting the PCS as them.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2015
Wenjing and Cong :luv17:
Sad for Aliona, and still weird to not see Ksenia and Fedor here. :sad21:
Sad for Aliona, and still weird to not see Ksenia and Fedor here. :sad21:
you said it yourself. S/M and S/H (maybe S/K) have better PCS components than T/M. This should show in the scores they get. I'm not advocating for T/M to get 6's and 7's in SS. But there is gap between them and the top teams (especially in the FS) that should be recognized.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2014
They certainly shouldn't receive anywhere close to that for SS, when they definitely have the best skating skills in this field.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
I missed everything because I got the flu.
cheer: S/H! Yay! 
)
cheer: S/H! Yay! )well, nobody said they should ..
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