2018 Olympic Figure Skating Team Event Day 3

[moonvine]

New system is as bad as 6.0, now it’s less accurate on artistic side. No way would Kolyada w his falls be ahead of an artistically superb Rippon.

It's worse than 6.0.

 

[jenaj]

once again i watched the whole thing with the turned off sound, because of chen and sotnikova awful commentaries on match tv.
in mirai's case it's even hard to tell that she's not on the warm up anymore. she doesn't even bother to wave her arms on a rare occasions. it's just a lot of skating around from jump to jump, and nothing more. all on two foots and with a serious face of course

Is arm-waving a good thing now? And is the story of Miss Saigon something to smile about? Mirai has moved the sport forward and there are still nit-picks. Personally, I think it's a negative for the sport when an program with a triple axel and seven other clean triples is twenty points behind a program with lower technical difficulty.

ETA: And by the way, the judges gave Mirai the lowest PCS of the group, so her alleged lack of performance and transitions was noted.

 

[ivanja]

All hail to Nagasu.

It's rather amazing that none of the women that landed a triple axel at the Olympics won gold...

 

[WeakAnkles]

her skating doesn't fit the first part of the music - it's not "the first part of the music". Have you ever been to the Ballet? D'You know the difference between pas de deux and Grand pas de Deux? I'm afraid you have not readthe novel of Romanian:reye:writer Théophile Gautier "Don Quixote".

A 9.43 for interpretation is everything that is wrong with PCS scoring. She skates like what she is, a teenybopper. I'm not saying she won't develop a genuinely mature style, but a score that says, "This is nearly interpretative perfection" for a performance that is clearly not just renders the whole scoring system suspect.

And frankly bores the bejesus out of me.

 

[moonvine]

Mirai Nagasu is the first senior lady to have 8 ratified triple jumps in the free skate at ANY international competition ever. She did it first at Japan Open (but it was not an ISU event) and now at the Olympics, with all positive GOEs. Let that sink in.

And was still many points behind the leader.

 

[tjb]

Is arm-waving a good thing now? And is the story of Miss Saigon something to smile about? Mirai has moved the sport forward and there are still nit-picks. Personally, I think it's a negative for the sport when an program with a triple axel and seven other clean triples is twenty points behind a program with lower technical difficulty.

i think that having some choreography in your program is better than having a bunch of nothing.
but l'll not say that alina program tech difficulty is lower, other than backloading she repeats a 3Lz and a 3F and has a level 4s on everything.
also i'll agree that a 20 points difference is a bit too much. my personal opinion is that "artistry" in figure skating is overrated, it's a sport at first and foremost, i'm even ok with a 70+ PCS for clean mirai, the things like clean 8 triples program should be rewarded, even is there is no choreography at all

 

[tjb]

Mirai Nagasu is the first senior lady to have 8 ratified triple jumps in the free skate at ANY international competition ever. She did it first at Japan Open (but it was not an ISU event) and now at the Olympics, with all positive GOEs. Let that sink in.

she is the second. the first was rika kihira at 2016 jgp slovenia.

 

[Mrs. P]

she is the second. the first was rika kihira at 2016 jgp slovenia.

The poster said first "senior" lady. Rika is obviously a junior.

 

[MaiKatze]

Wow, I've just read some threads on another site I frequent about the Winter Olympics and people don't seem to understand at all why Adam Rippon lost to Patrick Chan/Mikhail Kolyada. I get that some mistakes are more obvious than others. But is it so hard to understand that the technical content matters? I know I see this from a perspective of someone who watches figure skating a lot, but this is so weird, how everyone acts so surprised. I'm really curious on how they all will react when the individual Men's competition will be over. I don't really remember if there was such an outcry for Denis Ten in Sochi, for example?

 

[skylark]

Lordy, I dislike those program descriptions. I don't want a briefing book on the storylines of programs. If the skating doesn't tell the story, then it's not good enough.

You're right. Now that you remind me, it may have been the "briefing" that kept me from being 100% in the program with Bobrova/Soloviev. I'll give it some time to cool off in my mind and watch it again without commentary.

 

[visaliakid]

Mirai Nagasu is the first senior lady to have 8 ratified triple jumps in the free skate at ANY international competition ever. She did it first at Japan Open (but it was not an ISU event) and now at the Olympics, with all positive GOEs. Let that sink in.

largeman, Where is this fact listed; on the ISU website? Can you provide a link to it for verification? Thanks!

 

[OS]

I'm not going to comment on anything except this.

Calling tanos and backloading "cheap strategies" as if any skater could do them. No, they don't do them because they are difficult to do, not because they are cheap and easy.

Ok, I get it, you don't like it. Your favourite skaters lose points because they aren't doing it, but don't let that cloud your judgement and say silly things like doing all jumps in the second half of an FS is an easy thing to do.

Big jumps with no pre-rotation, speed, height, good trajectory, flow, clear edges, and soft controlled landing are harder and riskier to do, but under valued by the current system compare to an extra tano, or smaller sized jump with pre-rotation that is why it makes tano cheap.

Put it this way, if there's anything that can be described cheap and overvalued in this sport vs efforts under the current system, especially in the short program, which one would you consider it to be?

Also should the cost of backloading, tano = imbalance, aesthetics, repetitive hurt PCS presentation marks? Does it? Should it? Why conveniently turn a blind eye now when the balance is supposed to be encouraged?
How is it having all jumps sequentially not hurt its size, speed, performance? Should these not weigh in to the PCS marks vs someone who does them in the first half and produces larger size and riskier elements and still has to leave stamina in the 2nd half with no recuperation time? A burst of energy then immediately rest (end of program for backloaders, no need to manage stamina, half way mark for those who don't backloads still need to manage stamina) is certainly makes it easier to manage stamina.

As for why people are not doing it, it is very likely out of choice for PCS's sake. You can't have ISU tell people balance and well roundedness is more important, than encourage another to develope an imbalanced program, that's absurd. The question is why ISU is conveniently telling everyone else one thing, then do another while reward them for it instead of punish imbalance. You make your own mind up.

 

[moonvine]

There was also a lot of parasitic noise in the arena, especially during ladies warm up. Is the ice hockey rink close?[/QUOTET

I don't think so...I looked up a map and the ice hockey rink wasn't even in the picture.

 

[Mrs. P]

Wow, I've just read some threads on another site I frequent about the Winter Olympics and people don't seem to understand at all why Adam Rippon lost to Patrick Chan/Mikhail Kolyada. I get that some mistakes are more obvious than others. But is it so hard to understand that the technical content matters? I know I see this from a perspective of someone who watches figure skating a lot, but this is so weird, how everyone acts so surprised. I'm really curious on how they all will react when the individual Men's competition will be over. I don't really remember if there was such an outcry for Denis Ten in Sochi, for example?

Adam's program did LOOK a lot better. Also, I think there is a lot of sentiment for Adam because he is an openly-gay athlete and his willingness to stand up to Mike Pence, etc.

I will say that Adam's been UR-ing random jumps this season -- he UR-ed the 3Z at the GPF SP and here and his 3F-3T combo at GPF FS. He also gives away points on spin/step levels too (he got level 3 here in the StSq). Those little things add up.

ETA: Though Patrick and Mikhail both had a level 3 spin. But Patrick hit both his quad. I do think Adam should have been 2nd, though I understand how the math works.

 

[withwings]

... its ugly head again in the PCS department, everything BS I hate about PCS fake judging. Politics, federation judging, inflation to the scale we have never seen before.... worse than Sochi I'd say.

Of course it is worse because it is done more subtly and, at the same time, more boldy and with a purpose.

 

[TunaKeem]

I'm not going to comment on anything except this.

Calling tanos and backloading "cheap strategies" as if any skater could do them. No, they don't do them because they are difficult to do, not because they are cheap and easy.

Ok, I get it, you don't like it. Your favorite skaters lose points because they aren't doing it, but don't let that cloud your judgement and and say silly things like doing all jumps in the second half of a FS is an easy thing to do.

Completely agree. I do not understand the criticism of backloading jumps in a program. No one is restricted or limited from backloading but they choose not to do it. They see skaters like Alina and Evgenia doing it and being appropriately rewarded for taking the risk but are continuing not to do it. If Alina messes up one of the jumps in the second half of her FS, that would ruin the timing, speed and entries for the other jumps to come since they are all so back to back. She is taking a huge risk and if other skaters are choosing not to do it then it is their pill to swallow and let's be honest, skating a clean program without backloading is difficult enough for the top 10 ladies, can't imagine the mess if all of them try to backload to maximize their points..

The tanos, I have a slightly different view. I think doing multiple tanos is okay if you do it "right". Maria Sotskova's tanos irk me to no end I hate her hand placement so I wouldn't consider it to be right. Now with that being said, I do not know if a tano is given credit simply for the fact that it is difficult to have the hand above the head during a jump or if it is supposed to also be aesthetically pleasing. I would say that it is given credit solely for the hand being above the head but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[largeman]

largeman, Where is this fact listed; on the ISU website? Can you provide a link to it for verification? Thanks!

It's only listed in my mind, sorry.

It is not hard to verify though: in order to have 8 triples in the FS, you need a 3A. There are only seven senior ladies who have landed a 3A in an ISU competition. It's a very narrow circle of skaters and short list of competitive history to check through.

 

[Tulipstar]

With no nomination and support, Mirai appointed and showed herself to the the boss. Any objection?

None

 

[skylark]

Wow, I've just read some threads on another site I frequent about the Winter Olympics and people don't seem to understand at all why Adam Rippon lost to Patrick Chan/Mikhail Kolyada. I get that some mistakes are more obvious than others. But is it so hard to understand that the technical content matters? I know I see this from a perspective of someone who watches figure skating a lot, but this is so weird, how everyone acts so surprised. I'm really curious on how they all will react when the individual Men's competition will be over. I don't really remember if there was such an outcry for Denis Ten in Sochi, for example?

Adam's artistry is different in quality than Denis Ten's ... whose artistry for me is exquisite in its own way.

Adam created a poem on ice last night. It was all about his purity of feeling, his complete immersion in not just portraying, but becoming the bird with broken wing who slowly ... slowly ... slowly finds his own beauty and strength to transcend whatever injury or pain or broken-heartedness to become whole and fully self-actuated and his own creation once again.

That's what people responded to. In Adam's skating, the technique ... even when it's exquisite and beautiful and pristine, (like his spins and all his in-betweens, and often also his jumps)... becomes submerged to the program, to the thing that Adam is creating.

I think that's what viewers want from figure skating, not all this detailed analysis of what's wrong with everything and assigning a points value. Especially people who used to love to watch figure skating, even if they only watched once every four years, and loved it because it gave them something different from other sports.

 

[ivanja]

I agree that the judging system is flawed. It isn't exactly encouraging to work so hard on making a near perfect 3A just to be still 20 pts behind a backloading skate.