2018 Olympic Figure Skating Team Event Day 3

[WeakAnkles]

if you want the sport to draw an audience you just need american skaters to win. the loss of the "casual" audience is only happening in the US. in japan popularity of the sport is bigger than ever

I don't remember the European venues packing them in during events held there the last few years (other than major events like Euros or Worlds). It's not just a North American problem.

And heaven bless the Japanese fans. They even know how to clap to a variety of rhythms. You can't buy that kind of professionalism.

 

[largeman]

I enjoyed Mirai and relish her success but I would score Alina much more in PCS too. I took a look at that the results Page and the only mark on my own score card that would show noticeable variance would be in PE which I would drop Alina closer to 9.25 - 9.0 but the rest of the marks between the two seems totally spot on IMO.

I’ll admit that when I see Mirai’s program I’m immediately comparing the performance level to that of Satoko and it really falls flat. So that is an unfortunate thing I can’t unsee. But even just comparing Alina to Mirai on a performance level...Alina would likely get 6-9 pts advantage from me in the FS in this event.

Alina:
SS : 9.25
TR: 9.25
PE: 9.25
Comp: 8.75
INT: 9.0

Mirai
SS: 8.0
TR: 7.25
PE: 8.25
Comp: 7.75
INT 7.0

Just because I cheered and gave high fives to my friend who is a major Mirai fan after the performance and 3a doesn’t mean I didn’t also notice the lack of emotion and creativity in her program. I’m not a big fan of Alina’s program but I don’t disagree with the scores necessarily...personally my score card might be a little closer to 150 but I’m not even sure what that means anymore. I may have become rather excited after the 3z-3lo which was all that!!! I guess if I was in an Olympic judge’s place maybe I too would add points to everyone’s score. I guess I won’t know unless I get the chance some day.

I thought the judges actually did a great job reflecting the PCS difference I saw between the skaters this time.

Okay but...

Yuna Kim, 2010 Olympics FS
SS: 9.05
TR: 8.60
PE: 9.15
Comp: 8.95
INT: 9.10
Total: 71.76


Yuna Kim, 2014 Olympics FS
SS: 9.21
TR: 8.96
PE: 9.43
Comp: 9.39
INT: 9.57
Total: 74.50


I just cannot

 

[andromache]

if you want the sport to draw an audience you just need american skaters to win. the loss of the "casual" audience is only happening in the US. in japan popularity of the sport is bigger than ever

Idk man, Adam is a STAR all of sudden (and I LOVE it, but it's very weird that suddenly everyone knows who he is - I'm just not used to it!!!) and it's not because he's winning anything. But these people who are suddenly obsessed with Adam won't bother paying attention to the sport once Adam retires, which will probably happen soon, I would imagine.

Anyway, it makes me wonder what, say, Davis and White could've done if they were more a little more interesting in their interviews while they were competing.

I'll also add that my mom has been texting me during the Olympics, and she hates all the falls during the men's events. She doesn't get it, and she thinks they all suck. She's much more impressed by the ladies competition.

 

[andromache]

Ice Dance is the "surprise" this year for the casual fan, people are loving it, #Shibsibs, Moulin Rouge, Coldplay were all trending on twitter after the final of Team event. I've seen comment on how people would like "other disciplines to have a theme" after the Latin SD (which people are loving because some skaters went bold with music despite the critics on the forums !).
Mirai Nagasu and Adam Rippon were trending for quite some time with over 70K each. The individual events are going to be insane if that is any indication.

I'm honestly surprised (though maybe I shouldn't be) that allowing lyrics in competition has worked out sooooo well for the ISU. It's probably not gaining the sport any new long-term fans, but casuals love tuning in and seeing people skate (competitively) to music they know and love.

 

[Mrs. P]

Are casual viewers giving out scores? Do their opinions matter even a tiny bit?

No. But the audience reaction could be influential on how they are scored.

Not to mention bode well for them outside of skating. Not everything revolves around what's in the rink (or comments on figure skating boards, for that matter).

I told my 14-year-old niece to watch the ShibSibs and she's like "i already know who they are because myfavorite YouTuber loves them!" And then said. "They're so in-sync, it's cool!"

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Okay but...

Yuna Kim, 2010 Olympics FS
SS: 9.05
TR: 8.60
PE: 9.15
Comp: 8.95
INT: 9.10
Total: 71.76


Yuna Kim, 2014 Olympics FS
SS: 9.21
TR: 8.96
PE: 9.43
Comp: 9.39
INT: 9.57
Total: 74.50


I just cannot

I never realized how much Yuna’s PCS went up at Sochi. I can only imagine the 10’s and 9.75’s she’d see today.

I dare not compare across seasons due to scoring changes in judging trends. The athletes train differently now and the ladies field is much stronger overall IMO.

 

[NanaPat]

Ice Dance is the "surprise" this year for the casual fan, people are loving it, #Shibsibs, Moulin Rouge, Coldplay were all trending on twitter after the final of Team event. I've seen comment on how people would like "other disciplines to have a theme" after the Latin SD (which people are loving because some skaters went bold with music despite the critics on the forums !).
Mirai Nagasu and Adam Rippon were trending for quite some time with over 70K each. The individual events are going to be insane if that is any indication.

One of the aspects of the team event is that all disciplines have equal value. A lot has been written about the team event encouraging federations to develop their weaker disciplines, but it can also have an effect on making more "well-rounded" viewers. Because there are only a few skaters (especially for the long) in all disciplines, fans of one discipline are encouraged to watch the others, and many may like what they see.

I especially see this as applying to the US, where the skaters in ice dance are very strong but their fan base seems to be weak. Maybe some of those fans of the ladies saw dance for the first time and will turn into fans!

 

[Mrs. P]

Dude Leslie Jones' is making me re-evaluate V/M's FD again, so you know that whole student teaches the master thing.

https://twitter.com/Lesdoggg/status/962908881344172032
https://twitter.com/Lesdoggg/status/962909818263670789

 

[frida80]

well, i dont think there is any point in comparing the planned BV with actually achieved BV.
Has Mirai ever achieved 67 BV internationally?

I was responding to the poster that said had a BV advantage over Mirai. She's doesn't.

What this means is Rika Kihira, who can and has landed multiple 3As has a massive BV advantage over skaters that can even backload. I suspect Eteri will push quads and 3As soon.

 

[beki]

I suspect Eteri will push quads and 3As soon.

I wonder about that, because many of her students have poor 2As. And will the quads stay through puberty? It will be a fascinating effort to watch nonetheless.

 

[Miss Ice]

I agree that the judging system is flawed. It isn't exactly encouraging to work so hard on making a near perfect 3A just to be still 20 pts behind a backloading skate.

This post would be gold if this were on another site.

And was still many points behind the leader.

Whose PCS have literally skyrocketed by 10 points for a program which she skated as a junior, and skated better as a junior.

Big jumps with no pre-rotation, speed, height, good trajectory, flow, clear edges, and soft controlled landing are harder and riskier to do, but under valued by the current system compare to an extra tano, or smaller sized jump with pre-rotation that is why it makes tano cheap.

Put it this way, if there's anything that can be described cheap and overvalued in this sport vs efforts under the current system, especially in the short program, which one would you consider it to be?

Also should the cost of backloading, tano = imbalance, aesthetics, repetitive hurt PCS presentation marks? Does it? Should it? Why conveniently turn a blind eye now when the balance is supposed to be encouraged?
How is it having all jumps sequentially not hurt its size, speed, performance? Should these not weigh in to the PCS marks vs someone who does them in the first half and produces larger size and riskier elements and still has to leave stamina in the 2nd half with no recuperation time? A burst of energy then immediately rest (end of program for backloaders, no need to manage stamina, half way mark for those who don't backloads still need to manage stamina) is certainly makes it easier to manage stamina.

As for why people are not doing it, it is very likely out of choice for PCS's sake. You can't have ISU tell people balance and well roundedness is more important, than encourage another to develope an imbalanced program, that's absurd. The question is why ISU is conveniently telling everyone else one thing, then do another while reward them for it instead of punish imbalance. You make your own mind up.

Thank you.

For those of you wondering why Evgenia and Alina are receiving more criticism for their scores then for other skaters, it’s because they are benefiting the most from the inflation. Evgenia broke several WRs solely because the judges kept getting excited and wanted to launch her status to outer space. Whether you care about WRs or not, you can’t deny that they do give a sense of distance between the holder and the others, which should NOT be the case. As for Alina, she skyrocketed from a junior girl status to the highest peak all in just a few months. That’s just plain unfair to everyone else who have been working just as hard.

The thing is, while Evgenia and Alina display very impressive consistency, are they really that much better than the rest of the field? Honestly, other than the 3Lo, I can name skaters in recent years who can do the same elements as Evgenia better than her. For 3Lz, look at Tuktamysheva. For layback, look at Chen or Miyahara. For footwork, look at Kostner. And many more. Same goes for Alina. I will admit that her 3Lz-3Lo, flying camel, and 3F are certainly some of the best out there. But everything else is being marked as near-perfect, which again should not be true because there are people who can do them better.

And a few pages back, I saw some people talking about how Mirai should gain equal criticism for her PCS with Alina, since they are probably at the same level artistically. So in this case, they should be having almost the same PCS. Why on earth should Alina be beating Mirai by a whopping 11 points here? Both skated clean.

Currently I think that Evgenia, Alina, Kaetlyn, and Carolina are the most overscored. But Evgenia’s and Alina’s inflations are just up to another level...

100% this, except as Eclair pointed out, Zagitova actually isn't very consistent. Her first clean SP of the season was at GPF.

 

[moonvine]

Adam's artistry is different in quality than Denis Ten's ... whose artistry for me is exquisite in its own way.

Adam created a poem on ice last night. It was all about his purity of feeling, his complete immersion in not just portraying, but becoming the bird with broken wing who slowly ... slowly ... slowly finds his own beauty and strength to transcend whatever injury or pain or broken-heartedness to become whole and fully self-actuated and his own creation once again.

That's what people responded to. In Adam's skating, the technique ... even when it's exquisite and beautiful and pristine, (like his spins and all his in-betweens, and often also his jumps)... becomes submerged to the program, to the thing that Adam is creating.

I think that's what viewers want from figure skating, not all this detailed analysis of what's wrong with everything and assigning a points value. Especially people who used to love to watch figure skating, even if they only watched once every four years, and loved it because it gave them something different from other sports.

I don't know what other viewers want, but YES. This is exactly what I want.

 

[schizoanalyst]

I wonder about that, because many of her students have poor 2As. And will the quads stay through puberty? It will be a fascinating effort to watch nonetheless.

I'd like to see one landed in competition (and not a distant, bad angle video undoubtedly chosen among dozens of samples for instagram) before we even start worrying about puberty lol.

I actually find it odd the Eteri group pushes the quad more it seems. I guess it has a bigger pop - but getting a 3A would be much better because you can use it in the short and landing 2 triple axels in the LP would be easier.

 

[moonvine]

Your point is not without merit. I sometimes repeat myself on different threads on different days, and it is a habit I'm attempting to break.

Of course, I can claim advanced age, so everyone has to forgive me.

I have PTSD and memory issues and it's quite possible I may repeat myself in the same thread without knowing it. So I feel you.

 

[moonvine]

I don’t have a favorite skater at the moment. It isn’t soar grapes. I just think backloading and ugly arms over the head constantly hurt the artistic side of skating.

I'd give my right arm to hear Dick Button's opinion on this. I happen to agree with you btw.

 

[Miss Ice]

I actually find it odd the Eteri group pushes the quad more it seems. I guess it has a bigger pop - but getting a 3A would be much better because you can use it in the short and landing 2 triple axels in the LP would be easier.

Most of the Eteri students' axel techniques are too weak to try 3A. You have to have a very solid 2A first. Examples of skaters with a very solid 2A: Mirai, Wakaba, Rika K. (who has a consistent 3A too), Yuna Kim. I'm sure there's others, but Eteri students don't come to mind.

 

[colormyworld240]

I wonder about that, because many of her students have poor 2As. And will the quads stay through puberty? It will be a fascinating effort to watch nonetheless.

Trusova and Panenkova are working on 3As. Alina and Evgenia and most of the other Eteri skaters will most definitely not be trying to learn a 3A, as their 2A are quite scary already (especially Evgenia) and trying to throw a triple will only get them injured. Kostornaia has a nice 2A but I don't think she has the height or speed of rotation for a triple.

 

[andromache]

I actually find it odd the Eteri group pushes the quad more it seems. I guess it has a bigger pop - but getting a 3A would be much better because you can use it in the short and landing 2 triple axels in the LP would be easier.

Axels just seem to be on another level of difficulty for many skaters/coaches, compared to other jumps. Look at Nathan and Patrick. Nathan especially - Nathan is better at 4Lz than a 3A! He's also a very fast rotator, like Eteri's girls. But I don't think rotation speed matters as much for the 3A. I get the impression that it's easier to "muscle" the other jumps than it is to do it with an axel - not that I am accusing Nathan or Patrick or Eteri's girls of muscling their jumps in a negative way - but incredible height or rotation speed makes those jumps feasible, whereas axels seem way more dependent on proper technique. Then someone like Hanyu can be half-dead or injured or sick or anything but nail a 3A because his technique is soooooooooo good.

 

[moonvine]

Are casual viewers giving out scores? Do their opinions matter even a tiny bit?

In the sense that they are the people who would watch on TV, and from what I understand TV viewership has been declining for years, yes they do.

 

[Inego]

I prefer Alina to Evgenia myself. Really.

What do you mean by this, personality or programs ? Alina has outstanding, well packaged free skate program, with unique combo, it is.. and it is not boring, the rythm from the start is rising until the end. I like Zagi and Med and I want clean skate from both of them, let the ice decide who is better. You know as one man said,-"You are trying to make me choose someone, but it will be like I'm choosing between two my own children".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAVwKTGw7Og
Med parody on Alina during practice time.