2018 Olympic Season: Ice Dance

[Cherry blossom]

If a someone says V/M has no artistry which is an untrue statement and I defend them if that makes me "petty" or "not getting in the olympic spirit" then call me a petty spirit killer. I won't sit back and let a terrible untrue comment like that go unnoticed. V/M are innovators of the sport and are ice dance legends and seeing a comment like that is rude and discredits V/M.

 

[ChanClan]

Also, this sport isn't just about the artistry, it's also about the technical side and imo, I think VM have a better technique, mostly because they've been around a lot longer. To me, the sport of ice dance isn't just what they can make me feel or how fluidly they glide across the ice because at the end of the day it's still a sport. It still requires the technical part and while I love PCs FD and style in general, some of the lifts they are doing are really easy compared to the lifts that other teams do. They flow nicely with the program but leave me feeling disappointed because I expect the top teams to push their own boundaries and imo, I just don't think they are doing that. I just don't think those lifts should score the same. But before anyone comes at me, I know that all their lifts satisfy the requirements to be scored the same and that they execute them extremely well so deserve the high GOE they get on them, I just don't agree with the rules on how scoring the technical elements goes.

 

[peepsquick]

Also, this sport isn't just about the artistry, it's also about the technical side and imo, I think VM have a better technique, mostly because they've been around a lot longer. To me, the sport of ice dance isn't just what they can make me feel or how fluidly they glide across the ice because at the end of the day it's still a sport. It still requires the technical part and while I love PCs FD and style in general, some of the lifts they are doing are really easy compared to the lifts that other teams do. They flow nicely with the program but leave me feeling disappointed because I expect the top teams to push their own boundaries and imo, I just don't think they are doing that. I just don't think those lifts should score the same. But before anyone comes at me, I know that all their lifts satisfy the requirements to be scored the same and that they execute them extremely well so deserve the high GOE they get on them, I just don't agree with the rules on how scoring the technical elements goes.

It's not called acrobatic dance! I can appreciate what V/M brings with their lifts and it suits their style. I don't need acrobatic lifts to appreciate dance. It is just a matter of style. Some dance pairs like V/M have made them their "trade marks" (I think Dubreuil/Lauzon were also well-known for using acrobatic lifts) but they are a matter of choice. V/M's fans expect them, P/C's fans don't.

 

[ChanClan]

It's not called acrobatic dance! I can appreciate what V/M brings with their lifts and it suits their style. I don't need acrobatic lifts to appreciate dance. It is just a matter of style. Some dance pairs like V/M have made them their "trade marks" (I think Dubreuil/Lauzon were also well-known for using acrobatic lifts) but they are a matter of choice. V/M's fans expect them, P/C's fans don't.

Like I said, IMO. I expect the top teams to push their boundaries. Try things they've never done before. Others like to see a particular thing and I understand that. I just personally don't like it when the top teams stay in their comfort zone all the time (and I'm talking about in the FD not SD). Maybe you don't need acrobatic lifts to appreciate dance, but I need more than just feelings to appreciate the sport of Ice Dance.

 

[Mango]

That reminds me of Weaver/Poje discussing a lift. They said they watched an adagio pairs team do it. It took them a while to develop it.

Another random ice dance thing I learned today: David Wilson mentioned in Pj's podcast that Tessa & Scott's FD death sequence was inspired by a pas de deux in which the lady is dying. I didn't manage to catch which one (or he could not recall it).

Oh yes now we have Coomes/Buckland to also keep track of at NHK. Can they crack the podium? Interesting competition ahead.

 

[Barb]

I think that some seasons ago the acrobatic lifts were rewarded more, now that P / C are favorites and have achieved good scores with not so difficult lifts just following the rules, other teams have upgraded their lifts, and trying to do what judges are rewarding, now they look more fluid and with more purpose. I think it could benefit to other teams, who were spending time training risky lifts when they only needed polish them, and even like that the most of the lifts in the top teams are more acrobatics than those of P/C. C/B have the best lifts IMO, V/M have excellent lifts too, same C/L, G/P (I know it is controversial but I think they have some really great and original lifts too), the Shibs have improved too and they added some new lifts, then little by little the judges will have to notice that if they reward the P/C lifts high, they will simply have to do the same with other teams or they will simply look very bad.

Anyway I was watching some performances to try to understand some lost levels and it catched my attention that some performances had very obvious mistakes in twizzles in the step seq. I know that this season twizzles are not required to get level 4, I don´t understand why everyone are doing twizzles anyway, even when it is not mandatory, it seems a risky move, there is no way to hide the mistake.

V/M (Tessa) https://youtu.be/ZcPt_vJUMoU?t=105
P/C (Guillaume) https://youtu.be/bBqx8-N22ZQ?t=197
P/C (Gabriella) https://youtu.be/uCaTVlRNxPQ?t=89 ( I am not 100% sure about this one, but her twizzles look very sloppy, so I guess that was the reason to get level 3 )
H/D (Zach) https://youtu.be/PZiXthsOb3k?t=35
V/M https://youtu.be/cSQofAkprrs?t=109 the almost fall of Scott was in twizzles too

 

[DawnQOT]

I want to enjoy the full season and all of the dance couples but in the back of my mind I keep flashing forward to the first VM / PC head to head which will likely be the GPF. My optimistic wish is that the placements of each event will be determined by the athlete’s performance at that event. That the judging will follow not only the criteria as set out, but will also reflect highpersonal integrity. Now can someone help me off of this darn soapbox.

 

[Rossig]

V/M are innovators of the sport and are ice dance legends and seeing a comment like that is rude and discredits V/M.

V/M are such excellent skaters, and they are indeed the legends but I wouldn't call them innovators.

 

[Barb]

Someone knows why T/T withdrew from NHK? It is the olympic season, injury?

 

[Anyasnake]

Someone knows why T/T withdrew from NHK? It is the olympic season, injury?

We haven't seen them yet, they kept WD from competition since the beginning of the season...

 

[Purv]

V/M are such excellent skaters, and they are indeed the legends but I wouldn't call them innovators.

Me neither, if canadians wanna call v/t innovators , they must call americans like that too

Also, this sport isn't just about the artistry, it's also about the technical side and imo, I think VM have a better technique, mostly because they've been around a lot longer. To me, the sport of ice dance isn't just what they can make me feel or how fluidly they glide across the ice because at the end of the day it's still a sport. It still requires the technical part and while I love PCs FD and style in general, some of the lifts they are doing are really easy compared to the lifts that other teams do. They flow nicely with the program but leave me feeling disappointed because I expect the top teams to push their own boundaries and imo, I just don't think they are doing that. I just don't think those lifts should score the same. But before anyone comes at me, I know that all their lifts satisfy the requirements to be scored the same and that they execute them extremely well so deserve the high GOE they get on them, I just don't agree with the rules on how scoring the technical elements goes.

exactly!Canadians are so full of themselves sayign that v/t are much better, but i think they dont notice the age difference. French are 22/22 , canadians 28/30!! If you wanna compare french with canadians , compare them with v/t in age of 22. It is easy to bash a team who is much younger and have less experience. Canadians are 2 olympic medalist and frech compete with them on equal terms. If french lose gold medal, thats ok, but some "fans"of v/t will be overact how v/t are geniuses , and in the same time they will be ignoring the fact that french are so young

 

[peepsquick]

Like I said, IMO. I expect the top teams to push their boundaries. Try things they've never done before. Others like to see a particular thing and I understand that. I just personally don't like it when the top teams stay in their comfort zone all the time (and I'm talking about in the FD not SD). Maybe you don't need acrobatic lifts to appreciate dance, but I need more than just feelings to appreciate the sport of Ice Dance.

They are pushing their boundaries, all the time, just not in the way you expect! This a team that went from "rock-punk" to something very new. I have not seen anyone lately doing remotely the same changes. They are currently exploring a style that suits them perfectly, something that will elude most teams during their career. I dare say, that in itself, is a major achievement! P/C are very hard-working and very mature and they have their own mind. Stop thinking that what looks effortless is effortless!

 

[ChanClan]

They are pushing their boundaries, all the time, just not in the way you expect! This a team that went from "rock-punk" to something very new. I have not seen anyone lately doing remotely the same changes. They are currently exploring a style that suits them perfectly, something that will elude most teams during their career. I dare say, that in itself, is a major achievement! P/C are very hard-working and very mature and they have their own mind. Stop thinking that what looks effortless is effortless!

doing the same style for 4 years in a row is not pushing their own boundaries. I didn't say it was effortless, I said it was easier than what other teams are doing. So you don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you. You can continue to tell me why you think PC are actually pushing their boundaries and I will continue to think otherwise. I can continue to tell you why I think VM are better at pushing their own boundaries and you will continue to think otherwise as well. We have our opinions. Lets just live with it.

 

[Roast Toast]

Sometimes I think people are stuck in the mentality of the last quad. Which top team has actually "pushed their boundaries" for you during the last 4 years? Or are we supposed to think Latch and MR were innovative for Tessa and Scott because as good as those programs were they really weren't risky or unexpected lmao. The shibs are remixing Fix You, H/D have yet another jazzy sultry program, W/P are straight up repeating Je suis malade... Sorry but I just don't see the difference between what P/C are doing and what the entire rest of the field is coming up with. In any case the incredible variety of programs we saw during the V/M and D/W rivalry is more due to Marina than either of those teams since she's the one who would pick them

 

[Anyasnake]

Stop thinking that what looks effortless is effortless!

This. I remember Tessa saying in an interview that the way they skate is a bit underestimated because they make it look so easy.

A reminder that when you make it look effortless, your PCS rises up. They are not the only example : I was surprised this year by Chock/Bates who have so much more flow than usual in their FD. Montreal teams are basically taught how to reach that seamlessness every day (they do a lot of stroking, basic skating), you can see it with H/D better (they already had strong basic SS but it's even more apparent now), and V/M seems even more powerful than ever, because it does seems easier vs 2014 for example, but they are indeed even better, it's not easier.

 

[ChanClan]

So I guess I just prefer the last quad more. Oh well what can you do.

 

[peepsquick]

doing the same style for 4 years in a row is not pushing their own boundaries. I didn't say it was effortless, I said it was easier than what other teams are doing. So you don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you. You can continue to tell me why you think PC are actually pushing their boundaries and I will continue to think otherwise. I can continue to tell you why I think VM are better at pushing their own boundaries and you will continue to think otherwise as well. We have our opinions. Lets just live with it.

EASIER?:shocked: I don't think so! Let's just agree to disagree then!:agree:

 

[Roast Toast]

EASIER?:shocked: I don't think so! Let's just agree to disagree then!:agree:

lmao right? Moonlight doesn't touch me quite as much as To build a home (yet!) but it's easily P/C's most technically challenging program yet.

 

[Anyasnake]

In any case the incredible variety of programs we saw during the V/M and D/W rivalry is more due to Marina than either of those teams since she's the one who would pick them

The programs were done with a theme : latin, waltz, theatrical... D/W were "lucky" that Marina loved Scheherazade, since they're the ones who picked it themselves. It fitted the mood/Russian classics in Sochi. V/M (well Tessa) wanted Bride&Prejudice (also Romeo&Juliet I think ? correct me if I'm wrong ! ) Marina said no (and this year she gave that out to the German team ).
But a lot of the top teams picked their own music this season (Shibs have almost 100% of creative music control). I'd rather see that, because they are some coach that can have some crazy ideas for their students... At least everyone have their own identity and it's so much better. However, I understand coaches picking up music for the SD because it can be harder for, let's say, a Polka.

 

[ChanClan]

y'all are thinking I said PCs programs are just downright easy. I did not say that. I do not think that. I think they are easier compared to what other teams are doing but in no way think they are just plain easy. I love their stationary lift. I do not like their curve lift or straight line lift or their lift from the SD. It's my opinion, I understand others have different opinions and that y'all aren't going to agree with me. But oh well. Lets all just live with the fact that others have different points of view and we're not going to change them by bickering on the internet.