How stupid!
Guys, this whole conversation started as who was better technically when they were younger/the same age, not at the end of their careers.
2018 Olympic Season: Ice Dance
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Guys, this whole conversation started as who was better technically when they were younger/the same age, not at the end of their careers.
Here it is -- it's in need of a bump...so feel free to bump it up --- :https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?64678-2017-2018-U-S-Ice-Dance/page3
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- Jul 26, 2003
Nvm, the Virtue/Moir thread is back. 
I'll post my answer there
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- Aug 1, 2011
Nvm, the Virtue/Moir thread is back.
Don't blame me. I'm just an ICE DANCE UBER.
I'll watch 'em all. And root for 'em all.
I don't want to be bored...
:hap57:
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- Aug 12, 2014
So you equate "a majority" with "everyone"? All I can say is, with our political system, we Americans know better.
I think the present trend toward more lyrical pieces is just that, a trend. Soon there will be another trend, or maybe the pendulum will swing the opposite way. Or, (I realize I'm arguing with myself now, but that's okay; to me it's imagining options), some dance teams had already been feeling a desire to create more lyrical dances, and because they saw an example of P/C doing it so well, they were encouraged to try what was or is, for them, a new direction. So for them, it may be branching out.
My hypothesis:
The words used to define +3 GOE in the ice dance handbook:
100% clean
very deep
fluid
seamless
immediate
very fast
flawless
very fast
seamless
seamless
seamless
floating
effortless
relaxed/bold
effortless
flowing & very fast
curves equal & very deep
seamless
seamless
flawless
clever & exquisite
consistent & very close
deep & quiet
bold
considerable speed achieved effortlessly & fluidly
excellent
clean & effortless
consistent & very close with ease
Now, you tell me? Why do you suppose 90% of the dance teams last year were skating to lyrical music?
There is nothing seamless about fast, sharp, intense, dramatic, quick, powerful music. Yet not one word on this list about being sharp or powerful. It is all seamless, effortless, flawless, yada, yada.
I am very glad that many of the dancers & their coaches heard the message last season that there was too much lyrical music. The FD competitions was zzzzz. And I LOVE ice dance. And all of the teams that have tried more intricate choreography have faced the same problem of getting dinged with their marks. Perhaps, someone should really take a good look at opening up the language in the handbook in order to reward athletes for matching their movement to all styles of music, rather than movement that fits best or is the easiest to perform cleanly to soft, flowing music.
This is GOE. It is a major separator within the scoring system right now. Almost all of the top ten are hitting almost all level 4s. GOE is suddenly the name of the game in a way it never has been before within IJS. GOE should be open enough to encourage teams to explore a myriad of different musical styles and to receive credit for extraordinary risk & difficulty. It should allow athletes with different strengths to excel and allow athletes that have already excelled in one style to excel at another.
The words used to define +3 GOE in the ice dance handbook:
100% clean
very deep
fluid
seamless
immediate
very fast
flawless
very fast
seamless
seamless
seamless
floating
effortless
relaxed/bold
effortless
flowing & very fast
curves equal & very deep
seamless
seamless
flawless
clever & exquisite
consistent & very close
deep & quiet
bold
considerable speed achieved effortlessly & fluidly
excellent
clean & effortless
consistent & very close with ease
Now, you tell me? Why do you suppose 90% of the dance teams last year were skating to lyrical music?
There is nothing seamless about fast, sharp, intense, dramatic, quick, powerful music. Yet not one word on this list about being sharp or powerful. It is all seamless, effortless, flawless, yada, yada.
I am very glad that many of the dancers & their coaches heard the message last season that there was too much lyrical music. The FD competitions was zzzzz. And I LOVE ice dance. And all of the teams that have tried more intricate choreography have faced the same problem of getting dinged with their marks. Perhaps, someone should really take a good look at opening up the language in the handbook in order to reward athletes for matching their movement to all styles of music, rather than movement that fits best or is the easiest to perform cleanly to soft, flowing music.
This is GOE. It is a major separator within the scoring system right now. Almost all of the top ten are hitting almost all level 4s. GOE is suddenly the name of the game in a way it never has been before within IJS. GOE should be open enough to encourage teams to explore a myriad of different musical styles and to receive credit for extraordinary risk & difficulty. It should allow athletes with different strengths to excel and allow athletes that have already excelled in one style to excel at another.
Actually, I would have liked the opposite, and I wonder what all those people who said that versatility is not important would have said. It's like, ¨Let my favorite team continue with their style, but please I hope other teams take charge of giving versatility to the competitions so that people do not get bored¨. But that is kind of unfair because lyrical is still better rewarded.
To me, seamless doesn't equal using a lyrical style, but as another way of saying flawless, without hesitation, etc.
From Merriam Webster dictionary, part of the definition (beyond literally meaning no seams) was "having no awkward transitions, interruptions, or indications of disparity" and "perfect, flawless".
For a while, everyone wanted the Canton style; now it's Gadbois.
From Merriam Webster dictionary, part of the definition (beyond literally meaning no seams) was "having no awkward transitions, interruptions, or indications of disparity" and "perfect, flawless".
For a while, everyone wanted the Canton style; now it's Gadbois.
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- Apr 5, 2016
Oh lol how could I forget about US politics where even a majority gets you nothing? But we're not supposed to discuss politics so I don't really care.
Though the majority on here is an avalanche and it's unstoppable. Better go with the flow and assimilate.I don't buy your argument and I am looking at the last Olympics to see that we had more diversity in ice dance. Fact is teams aren't stupid. They see one style being rewarded over all others - they copy that style. Even some of the juniors have caught on and capitalized. E.g. Carreira/Ponomarenko.
But you know if you watch pairs enough you'd realize that ice dance's love with the lyrical is leaking into that too. Now how do we explain that? I'm not sure John Kerr retired thinking, "Man, I want to move pairs closer to ice dance." But he's part of that now.
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- Aug 12, 2014
I just don't believe that the teams are necessarily copying one another. Sometimes a movement or a trend is "in the air" and people choose similar themes or practically identical, when they certainly had no intention of doing so. For instance, the year that so many skaters did POTO. Many if not most of them would surely have chosen something else if they'd known so many others planned to skate to it.
I don't watch juniors much, but I've watched Carreira and Ponomarenko for a couple of years, at first because I liked her blog, and then because I simply love them. I'm not at all convinced that they "copied" the lyrical style. Their coaches were Anthony's parents, who were olympic champion ice dancers with a stand-out lyrical style. As for pairs, it was G&G who got me watching any figure skating at all, and they were very lyrical. So it's nothing new for pairs to embrace the lyrical in their skating.
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- Apr 13, 2017
Considering people on here will call literally any slow music "lyrical" I'm not sure what to make of this discussion... Anyway the change in trend has more to do with who the top coaching team is than anything -- frankly after 8 years of Marina style (which I find very artificial in its variety) I am perfectly content to have had this 4 years bubble of Marie-France style.
I don't think much has changed this season. The majority of FD is still lyrical snot. Only V/M and to an extent G/P went against type really. The SDs this year are again the most interesting programs and that is why we have what we have; a two horse race. V/M are in a class of their own as is P/C and almost evryone else is simulating P/C hence the challenge I have in supporting teams outside of a few usual subjetcs. But, oh well. Let's see how the rule changes after the OG will change things.
Oh dear. No one is happy years after years.
If you do "lyrical", it's boring, everyone copies Gadbois, no diversity, it's easier.
If you try to look different (example : Piper/Paul), you look Kitsch, outdated and somehow ridiculous. It's not helping the sport's credibility in front of the big audiences.
Pick your team !
My issue isn't that. Mine is that we get to hear the same music years after years when there is so much music out there. I understand not everything is easy to skate to. However, I've been a skater myself : I understand if you pick a theme (samba, tango, irish, contemporary...) it's the normality. However, I never get why my teammates would pick Carmen when both her friend and her main rival took it last year, and that you've been hearing this for a more than half a decade in competition.
But even that's not a real issue. The worst thing is when the coaches pick those musics for you...
If you do "lyrical", it's boring, everyone copies Gadbois, no diversity, it's easier.
If you try to look different (example : Piper/Paul), you look Kitsch, outdated and somehow ridiculous. It's not helping the sport's credibility in front of the big audiences.
Pick your team !
My issue isn't that. Mine is that we get to hear the same music years after years when there is so much music out there. I understand not everything is easy to skate to. However, I've been a skater myself : I understand if you pick a theme (samba, tango, irish, contemporary...) it's the normality. However, I never get why my teammates would pick Carmen when both her friend and her main rival took it last year, and that you've been hearing this for a more than half a decade in competition.
But even that's not a real issue. The worst thing is when the coaches pick those musics for you...
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- Apr 5, 2016
I'm sorry if you don't see the sudden increase in lyrical styles as anything but coincidental then we have to agree to disagree.
Carreira/Ponomarenko were not even top 3 among the juniors in the US until they changed their style to lyrical. Could have been their parents pushing it or they realized that this is the style that is working now. Famous parents don't always make good coaches or have kids who do well - we've seen that with a US junior pairs team already.
Pairs suddenly returning to lyrical style after years of various programs? Totally G/G's impact 20 years later.
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- Aug 12, 2014
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