2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
I guess they mean Maria Talalaykina skated "clean". And I loved her, she was great! Unfortunately, she had five URs and a much weaker tech layout, so no, she wasn't robbed of a medal.

I wonder how many of those URs would have been called if she was a Sambo70 skater.

To put it in perspective, Frolova got an edge call on the lutz in the short there (despite she has a good outside edge, learnt that from Panova), while Shcherbakova who is almost never on the outside did not! :shrug::shrug:

Oh and how about we talk about the underrotations for Eteri skaters cause they had those too and nothing was called.

Technical panel double standards and guess who was in that panel?

 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
You're exaggerating. Kromykh's free wasn't "atrocious". It wasn't her best but she didn't bomb either. Other skaters had better presentation but in the end it's about getting the most tech points and pcs in both segments and Maya did that.
It's not like anyone else was robbed of a medal or something.

Who skated clean here with better content than Maya?

2 falls
step-out on the 2a
the flying camel she lost balance in the entry, with international judging she'd have lost levels there.

the 3f-3t looks supsiciously under on the toe.
 

brakes

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Perhaps she's a talented jumper after all, who knew?
I honestly haven't seen this coming. I thought her triples are not very high or energetic at all. Should've trusted Master Shayuki regarding young Russian talents though... 😌:pray:
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
so maybe, just maybe, it would be better to open a new thread and incessantly whine about it discuss it there?


of course, this type of "corrupted system" exists only in Russia, right? :palmf:

Because this is related to Russian Ladies in a domestic competition in Russia, we're discussing ladies performances and scores. There is no point opening new threads when THIS is the thread.

On the second part, you're adding stuff up, i've never said it exists only in Russia but to me that is an issue in Russia yes.
 
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nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I wonder how many of those URs would have been called if she was a Sambo70 skater.

To put it in perspective, Frolova got an edge call on the lutz in the short there (despite she has a good outside edge, learnt that from Panova), while Shcherbakova who is almost never on the outside did not! :shrug::shrug:

Oh and how about we talk about the underrotations for Eteri skaters cause they had those too and nothing was called.

Technical panel double standards and guess who was in that panel?

I’d say her URs were pretty obvious, and I do think Anna S. was scored favorably.

however, Anna F. getting lutz edge calls is nothing new, and as much as I love her, her lutz was never a clear outside. Sometimes flat, sometimes an e, but a good(?) outside - not that I remember.
Tolstoj, I encourage you do some fact checking before going into another corruption talk. Same as you alleging Veronika scores dropping (although Sofia’s scores dropped even more), same as claiming some athlete wasn’t invited to Test Skates because of Eteri (although that athlete turned out to change flags), it’s the same situation all over again.
 

sclloyd

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Country
United-States
You're exaggerating. Kromykh's free wasn't "atrocious". It wasn't her best but she didn't bomb either. Other skaters had better presentation but in the end it's about getting the most tech points and pcs in both segments and Maya did that.
It's not like anyone else was robbed of a medal or something.

Who skated clean here with better content than Maya?
Talalaykina. And someone said "well she URed" but there are some pretty obvious URs for the podium girls that weren't called, so it's not really fair to use that excuse.
 

sclloyd

On the Ice
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Aug 20, 2019
Country
United-States
Sorry, but the only reason I had to mention Rozanov, is because it's been rehashed everywhere multiple times, that he's THE coach that got all quads and 3A in TT, the big loss for that team and so on. I don't disagree he's a talented coach, I'm sure he has a lot to offer to skaters and skating world, but the fact that people seemed to completely minimize Dudakov's work and input, making it look like a young coach with a 3-4 years of real coaching experience was teaching Dudakov how to teach jumps (and not the other way around), has rubbed me the wrong way the whole time. People have provided multiple examples, that first quads were taught prior to Rozanov even stepping foot there, but it did look like some were largely persuaded otherwise. So I felt like Dudakov FINALLY deserves some credit for at least Lyuba's 3A and can come out of the shadow of the "beauty king of Russia".
There are other coaches who have trained their skaters to quads and 3A's. Whether Dudakov could was never the question. He's an elite jump coach and almost everyone at Sambo competing internationally has ultra-si elements. What was interesting to many was that Aliona credited Rozanov with the 3A and Sasha wanted to learn the 4Lo but couldn't because Rozanov was away. So while Dudakov no doubt helped these girls, they found the instruction of Rozanov for these elements to be the most invaluable. It doesn't take away from Dudakov's work with them, it's just gives credit to Rozanov's.

(I have absolutely no problems with Dudakov, he seems like such a pleasant man. Always there to support the girls, never says a word against them. And the way he carries all the stuffed animals and tissue holders for them cracks me up.)

Anyways, the real excitement for me is the GP, Aliona having three competitions in a month seems awful. If a GP stage does count as a qualifier for nationals and she does well there, I expect she'll withdraw from the fifth stage?

Does anyone know how the Russian Cups will work if sports schools are closed? The events are mostly filled by girls who aren't on the national team, so how do they continue their training and competitions if Moscow has restrictions?
 

Skatesocs

Final Flight
Joined
May 16, 2020
Because this is related to Russian Ladies in a domestic competition in Russia, we're discussing ladies performances and scores. There is no point opening new threads when THIS is the thread.
I do not see how spitballing about possible corruption is related to a skating thread. It's for discussion about skating/coaching whatever else, not "it's not Eteri's fault but the fault of a corrupted system".

I don't disagree btw that there is corruption in federations. I do disagree that constant reductive arguments with people repeatedly missing bits and pieces of information (part of which nussnacker showed to you) is helpful. I've seen threads about judging discrepancies in this forum. Open a new one up.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Anyway. How do we think the upcoming Russia cup and the senior GP will play out?
It really looks like Rostelecom GP will turn out to be a mini RusNats. Which is great! I expect a very tough competition.
The good thing is that the skaters can see it as a "dress rehearsal" before Nationals, and things that might not work out can be polished and re-worked.
It will be interesting to see Ryabova, Safonova and Urushadze in this tough competition. Can they beat anyone of the Russian girls?
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Will those attending the GP event(s) get a bye to Nationals like in previous seasons? Do we know yet?
Just my guess but I think GP entry will provide nationals entry no matter the Russian Cup results - which would also explain Aliona having three competitions so close together.
 
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Artemisa

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
GP Rostelecom equals to russian's nationals... so for that i'm happy.
This season GP who got the worst part is the russian ladies ... they are the best but because of "specials rules" we only will get one lady in the final .. but probably won't be final ( because will be ironic if you only put skaters of the country in the gp but in the final everything will be fine if they go ) ..
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Just my guess but I think GP entry will provide nationals entry no matter the Russian Cup results - wehich would also explain Aliona having three competitions so close together.
I'm not so sure. It seems to me illogical that RusFed first says that qualifying to RusNats will only go through Russian Cup and that everyone have to participate in two Stages. And then also qualifying through GP Rostelecom?!?

It doesn't matter though. We all strongly suspect that those at the GP will qualify anyway...

But it will be a very hectic period with a LOT of competitions for Kostornaia...
 

bubblecherry

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Just my guess but I think GP entry will provide nationals entry no matter the Russian Cup results - wehich would also explain Aliona having three competitions so close together.
Wait, you think Alyona will withdraw from her events?
 

lopsilceci

Her DOG has a Wikipedia page!
On the Ice
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Jan 20, 2019
Country
Mexico
I wonder how many of those URs would have been called if she was a Sambo70 skater.

To put it in perspective, Frolova got an edge call on the lutz in the short there (despite she has a good outside edge, learnt that from Panova), while Shcherbakova who is almost never on the outside did not! :shrug::shrug:

Oh and how about we talk about the underrotations for Eteri skaters cause they had those too and nothing was called.

Technical panel double standards and guess who was in that panel?

Eteri skaters were overscored, everyone agrees with that (even Anna). Some of that had to do with the Russian Cup bonus on highest scoring elements, but let's not pretend like any of the other ladies here are at the same level as Anna.

But that wasn't the point... It's about comparing Khromykh and Talalaykina. Maya's technical content was stronger in both programs and that boosted her a lot. Her PCS are also higher, but I did some tests...

These are the actual scores they got:
KHROMYKH
SP: (TES-36.52 + PCS-32.76) = 69.28
FS: (TES-61.02 + PCS-64.32)-2 = 123.34
Total: 192.62
TALALAYKINA

SP: (TES-31.63 + PCS-30.84) = 62.47
FS: (TES-56.88 + PCS-61.52) = 118.40
Total: 180.87

Now, for fun, I switched their PCS to see if the placements changed:
KHROMYKH
SP: (TES-36.52 + PCS-30.84) = 67.36
FS: (TES-61.02 + PCS-61.52) = 122.54 - 2 = 120.54
Total = 187.90
TALALAYKINA

SP: (TES-31.63 + PCS-32.76) = 64.39
FS: (TES-56.88 + PCS-64.32) = 121.2
Total = 185.59

Conclusion: Even with the PCS advantage and with Maya's 2 falls deductions, it wouldn't have been enough for Talalaykina to beat Khromykh for the bronze medal.
 
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Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Eteri skaters were overscored, everyone agrees with that (even Anna). Some of that had to do with the Russian Cup bonus on highest scoring elements, but let's not pretend like any of the other ladies here are at the same level as Anna.

But that wasn't the point... It's about comparing Kromykh and Talalaykina. Maya's technical content was stronger in both programs and that boosted her a lot. Her PCS are also higher, but I did some tests...

These are the actual scores they got:
KROMYKH
SP: (TES-36.52 + PCS-32.76) = 69.28
FS: (TES-61.02 + PCS-64.32)-2 = 123.34
Total: 192.62
TALALAYKINA

SP: (TES-31.63 + PCS-30.84) = 62.47
FS: (TES-56.88 + PCS-61.52) = 118.40
Total: 180.87

Now, for fun, I switched their PCS to see if the placements changed:
KROMYKH
SP: (TES-36.52 + PCS-30.84) = 67.36
FS: (TES-61.02 + PCS-61.52) = 122.54 - 2 = 120.54
Total = 187.90
TALALAYKINA

SP: (TES-31.63 + PCS-32.76) = 64.39
FS: (TES-56.88 + PCS-64.32) = 121.2
Total = 185.59

Conclusion: Even with the PCS advantage and with Maya's 2 falls deductions, it wouldn't have been enough for Talalaykina to beat Kromykh for the bronze medal.
Yes, as much as I LOVE Talalaykina, there is no way she could have been third with those URs, and with only a 6 triple program.
We mustn't forget that the judges also were kind of harsh with Khromykh. Her 4S attempt was downgraded to a 3S, which also meant that she had a 3F invalid at the end of the program because of the Zayak rule. She lost a HUGE amount of points because of that.

Edit: Come to think of it. That is bad strategy from the Eteri camp. Maybe they had a plan B but Maiia forgot about it? Fact remains, if she doesn't make the 4S she needs to change the rest of the program to avoid the Zayak rule. Maiia didn't do that. As it turned out she did two 3Lzs, 3S and 3Fs. I hope they learned the lesson.
 
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