2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating | Page 79 | Golden Skate

2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating

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I am hoping something good will happen at the Cup of Russia Final. Along the lines of Aliev’s triumph or something… I would also take Ignatov or Erokhov… ah, well, one never knows with these guys…

I don’t think we’ll see Mozalev in the worlds. He needs an undisputed success now. Unfortunately, it means the second quad, and just as unfortunately he doesn’t have it. I pray that he stays on National Team, at least in reserve and figures something out… I had seen my other favs have ups and downs, but they were either from small feds or their jumping set was huge & Mozalev has no option to switch fed.
 
RE: skating skills in Sokolovskaia's group, remember that both Samarin and Kondratyuk had coaches before her (same with Rukavitsin's students, too), and she doesn't seem to have many/any students who actually trained their foundations with her from the beginning. That in mind, you might be better off looking at some of the previous coaches for each to understand where the differences come from.

On the topic of Russian men and PCS - and non-Russian men and PCS, and women of all nationalities and PCS, and just PCS in general - the whole concept of a 'PCS skater' is inherently flawed. PCS isn't a single score, but rather, a total of 5 scores, and realistically very few skaters will be genuinely strong in all of them. The skaters who tend to be strong across all components tend to be extreme generalists, i.e. guys like Jason Brown or, controversial comment incoming, Yuzuru Hanyu, and the current CoP doesn't favour generalists unless their name is Hanyu (really, doesn't favour anybody except jump specialists right now).

Also, people still refer to PCS as 'artistry', but several PCS categories are technical components, not artistic ones. Essentially, SS is wholly technical, TR mostly technical, CO half-and-half (this is where ice coverage gets counted, after all), IN is mostly artistic and PE is wholly artistic. So, what you end up getting is some guys like Samarin who excel at the technical components (skating skills) and some like Kondratyuk who excel at the artistic components (performance). Because corridor scoring is a thing, being good enough at one component will save you if the judges like you, but being bad enough on one of them is a death sentence if the judges don't like you, but this kind of corridor scoring even happens within individual component categories if there is one aspect that you're either good enough or bad enough at (i.e. having great speed can save your SS scores if your edges aren't the deepest and deep enough edges can save you if you're slower on the ice than my obese Nan trying to climb a flight of stairs). And, is goes without saying, the if the judges like you part is where good old politicking comes in.

Super controversial comment incoming, but this is exactly where the issues with Mishin's students lie. Basically, 90-100% of what comes under TES and 50% of what comes under PCS would have been the Technical score under 6.0, and the other 50% of what comes under PCS would come under the artistic score. The sort of corridor scoring that happens now with PCS happened just as much under 6.0, it was just less obvious to the average viewer; if you had great jumps/spins/spirals/general-elements but week technical components (poor skating skills, no/few transitions, poor ice coverage) you could still get a high technical score, so for a very long time these particular components went ignored in favour of technical elements (now TES) and artistic components, and this is evidently how Mishin is still coaches, which is who so many of his students lack in SS/TR but are strong on PE in particular.

A LOT of coaches, not just Russian, are still playing catch-up with the CoP and coaching like they're still under 6.0 (as you said, stuck in the past), and to some degree this won't really change much until the coaches who started coaching under the CoP outnumber the ones who spent the majority of their coaching careers under 6.0.

But anyway, that's enough of my senseless rambling, I need to be up for work in the morning.
Yes, Mark's ex-coah is Sapronova, but he's been with Sokolovskaya for years, she could have done something about his SS. Moreover, Vetlugin, who stayed with Sapronova till this season, has a problem with jumps but not SS. My complaint about Sokolovskaya is that she doesn't seem to be interested in fixing such problems, even if the predate her.

As for Mishin, his approach is "nothing is allowed to interfere with jumps", and transitions do, while performance per se doesn't have to. Although skating skills don't make jumping harder, rather the opposite, but you have to devote time to learning them. But it can't be solely due to him coming from an older generation since other coaches who started coaching before CoP understand the importance of skating skills, e.g. Chebotareva whose students are known for being strong in this area. Muravieva was taught to skate by Chaikovskaya. And it's not like all younger coaches are particularly good at teaching those.
 
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Yes, Mark's ex-coah is Sapronova, but he's been with Sokolovskaya for years, she could have done something about his SS. Moreover, Vetlugin, who stayed with Sapronova till this season, has a problem with jumps but not SS. My complaint about Sokolovskaya is that she doesn't seem to be interested in fixing such problems, even if the predate her.

As for Mishin, his approach is "nothing is allowed to interfere with jumps", and transitions do, while performance per se doesn't have to. Although skating skills don't make jumping harder, rather the opposite, but you have to devote time to learning them. But it can't be solely due to him coming from an older generation since other coaches who started coaching before CoP understand the importance of skating skills, e.g. Chebotareva whose students are known for being strong in this area. Muravieva was taught to skate by Chaikovskaya. And it's not like all younger coaches are particularly good at teaching those.
What’s happening with Vetlugin, btw? Does anyone know?
 
Apparently, Dima has deleted all his posts on IG from the last two seasons. I can totally understand that he wants to forget about this time. So we can just start new from his Europeans victory from 2020.
 
I wish people would stop with these hateful comments. :( These guys are doing their best and don´t deserve this hate.
Yeah, me too. The group of athletes does work together to achieve medals, so if people attach themselves to medals, they should root, not bash. And when people take side of one skater vs another, it’s just silly, because fans will always be on the outside, and the skaters/coaches themselves will sort the stuff out as they have much more in common between themselves than with the outside world. It’s a tiny, tightly-knit and highly specialized community that is engrossed in their own existence.
 
So who will be on the team for worlds you think? Which of these teams would be able to keep the three spots for next season?

- The three Olympians
- Semenenko, Kondratiuk, Kolyada
- Semenenko, Kondratiuk, surprise winner of the RCF
- someone else
 
So who will be on the team for worlds you think? Which of these teams would be able to keep the three spots for next season?

- The three Olympians
- Semenenko, Kondratiuk, Kolyada
- Semenenko, Kondratiuk, surprise winner of the RCF
- someone else
My dream team would be Kolyada, Aliev and Kondratyuk/Samarin/Gumennik, providing Mozalev is out of commission for the rest of the season.

Basically, if Aliev is recovering, I want him to be able to restore his position on the National Team
 
So who will be on the team for worlds you think? Which of these teams would be able to keep the three spots for next season?

- The three Olympians
- Semenenko, Kondratiuk, Kolyada
- Semenenko, Kondratiuk, surprise winner of the RCF
- someone else
Yagudin (he sometimes knows something) has already said that Kolyada, Kondratyuk, and Semenenko are most likely on the team for Worlds.

They won't keep the spots without at least two of them, imo.
 
Yagudin (he sometimes knows something) has already said that Kolyada, Kondratyuk, and Semenenko are most likely on the team for Worlds.
I agree with Yagudin then, this team is probably the safest choice at the moment. Will these three even skate at RCF? Imo, they've done enough this season already to warrant a spot on the worlds team, but you never know. What if refreshed Aliev and Samarin return from their winter breaks with clean performances scoring above 280?

On another topic, happy to report that Andrei Kutovoy is on the entry list for SPB elder age Novice Championship!
 
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