2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[YuBluByMe]

She was maybe upset because she didn't win (although I have never seen any actual confirmation of this being the reason).

Has there been any explanation why she was upset? At the time, I also thought she might be angry because she wasn't in the Team Event. If she had skated the LP, then she would have a Gold Medal (pending the outcome of the doping investigation, of course).

Trusova literally said in the press conference that she was upset because she lost. Landing five quads was a key goal and she thought that if she met that goal, she would finally win a gold medal. She expressed disappointment about the trajectory of her senior career thus far. This has been very much confirmed by the lady herself.

Her outbursts also suggest that she was upset about Valieva being off the podium. As far as I know, she hasn’t actually clearly said so, but it may have been part of it. At one point, she’s stomping away and stops in her tracks after seeing Sakamoto, but then continues on, crying about something being “impossible.” I’m not sure if Trusova was actually aware of how Valieva skated or if she just heard her placement, but absolutely nothing was impossible about Valieva being off the podium. But she could’ve been talking about herself too.

 

[chuckm]

I think the problem for Sasha was that if Valieva had won, she could accept that because Valieva had several quads in her FS and 3a as well. When Valieva fell apart, Sasha felt assured of victory. She was shocked and devastated when she lost to Anya: that was 'impossible' because Anya didn't have anywhere near the technical content of Sasha's 5 quad program. And the fact that Anya already had Euros and Worlds gold and now the OGM, while Sasha had no championship gold medals---that pushed her over the edge into hysteria.

 

[Jasira]

I think the problem for Sasha was that if Valieva had won, she could accept that because Valieva had several quads in her FS and 3a as well. When Valieva fell apart, Sasha felt assured of victory. She was shocked and devastated when she lost to Anya: that was 'impossible' because Anya didn't have anywhere near the technical content of Sasha's 5 quad program. And the fact that Anya already had Euros and Worlds gold and now the OGM, while Sasha had no championship gold medals---that pushed her over the edge into hysteria.

I agree with you, but Anna doesn´t have won gold at Europeans, yet. She lost in 2020 to Aliona and in 2022 to Kamila.

 

[macy]

i do think part of what Sasha said not only has to do with the fact she has no international titles and the other girls do, but she also came away from the olympics without a gold like Anna and Kamila.

 

[JazzUp]

something positive, for a change: Alisa's 3A

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

something positive, for a change: Alisa's 3A

I wish skaters were incentivized to hold beautiful landing positions like this instead of having to go right into some pointless transition out of the jump.

 

[silveruskate]

Let's see if AK can become a champion again. Or at least regain her form of 2 years ago or 90% of it. That would be great. I also feel that Aliona is very sensitive and and things that would never bother Anya for instance bother Aliona. She needs to be handled with some care and ways that sasha and Anna for instance may not be needed to handle with care.

I think Anna does need to be handled with care. She just gives so much energy of being great at doing what's best for herself that she gravitated more towards Daniil who could give her a caring relationship and support. It's telling that she was at Sambo all her life and Daniil is the one that ended up being her main coach. And that is different to every other senior skater there.

 

[silveruskate]

something positive, for a change: Alisa's 3A

Also interesting how Sambo has its own 3A technique. Sliding into the jump.

 

[Jasira]

I think Anna does need to be handled with care. She just gives so much energy of being great at doing what's best for herself that she gravitated more towards Daniil who could give her a caring relationship and support. It's telling that she was at Sambo all her life and Daniil is the one that ended up being her main coach. And that is different to every other senior skater there.

I always feel that Daniil isn´t so caring with every skater. He has his favorites, much more than Eteri has her favorites. Daniil was very close with Alina as well. And he has a very close relationship with Anna. But he doesn´t care a lot about Aliona. He was critisizing her very harsh this season.

I heard that when Daniil joined team Eteri, he was given a group of very young skaters (around 10 years old). And Anna was one of them. So their relationship has developed over a very long time and that is the reason they are really close. Anna was very close with Eteri as well, but I don´t get this close relationship any more. I think Eteri cares the most for the girl who is the strongest right now and this season Kamila appeared to be the strongest.

I don´t think, Anna needs to be handled with special care. She is mentally very strong. And even when she had a disappointing competition like Russian Nationals she doesn´t get an outburst.

 

[lesnar001]

Trusova literally said in the press conference that she was upset because she lost. Landing five quads was a key goal and she thought that if she met that goal, she would finally win a gold medal. She expressed disappointment about the trajectory of her senior career thus far. This has been very much confirmed by the lady herself.

Her outbursts also suggest that she was upset about Valieva being off the podium. As far as I know, she hasn’t actually clearly said so, but it may have been part of it. At one point, she’s stomping away and stops in her tracks after seeing Sakamoto, but then continues on, crying about something being “impossible.” I’m not sure if Trusova was actually aware of how Valieva skated or if she just heard her placement, but absolutely nothing was impossible about Valieva being off the podium. But she could’ve been talking about herself too.

Thank you for the clarification. I never saw the press conference, or any article referring to it afterwards.

 

[Scott512]

I think Anna does need to be handled with care. She just gives so much energy of being great at doing what's best for herself that she gravitated more towards Daniil who could give her a caring relationship and support. It's telling that she was at Sambo all her life and Daniil is the one that ended up being her main coach. And that is different to every other senior skater there.

Anna is closest to Danil no question about it but he is not her main coach. He was also closer to Alina. I think he is like a buffer between EG and the skaters. I'm very happy the girls have him to lean on. But his relationship with some of the other girls haven't been the best he has always been very hard on Aliona.

 

[DougDorsey]

I have a few questions on novice nationals, including the "All-Russian competition 'Memorial of S.A. Zhuk'", which is taking place right now...

1) It seems like the older age group is limited to 2009s and 2010s. Is this correct? What is this age group typically referred to as in Russia?

2) It seems like the younger age group is limited to 2011s and 2012s. Is this correct? Or are 2013s also eligible, in theory? What is this age group typically referred to as in Russia?

3) What's the difference between this event and the separate novice nationals, i.e. "Championship of Russia among girls and boys", that takes place at the end of this month? I believe the latter event only has one age group, right? Is the upper age limit for the latter event anyone born after July 1 of 2007? (Which would mean that 2008s and half of 2007s are also eligible, which isn't the case for the event taking place right now.) What's the lower age limit? And what is this age group typically referred to as in Russia?

4) How do the qualification processes differ between "All-Russian competition 'Memorial of S.A. Zhuk'" and "Championship of Russia among girls and boys"?

5) What are the implications of each event? For example, which determines selection for the novice national team?

 

[brakes]

I have a few questions on novice nationals, including the "All-Russian competition 'Memorial of S.A. Zhuk'", which is taking place right now...

1) It seems like the older age group is limited to 2009s and 2010s. Is this correct? What is this age group typically referred to as in Russia?

2) It seems like the younger age group is limited to 2011s and 2012s. Is this correct? Or are 2013s also eligible, in theory? What is this age group typically referred to as in Russia?

3) What's the difference between this event and the separate novice nationals, i.e. "Championship of Russia among girls and boys", that takes place at the end of this month? I believe the latter event only has one age group, right? Is the upper age limit for the latter event anyone born after July 1 of 2007? (Which would mean that 2008s and half of 2007s are also eligible, which isn't the case for the event taking place right now.) What's the lower age limit? And what is this age group typically referred to as in Russia?

4) How do the qualification processes differ between "All-Russian competition 'Memorial of S.A. Zhuk'" and "Championship of Russia among girls and boys"?

5) What are the implications of each event? For example, which determines selection for the novice national team?

Afaik, (I invite everybody to correct me), the whole Zhuk's Memorial is called Russian Younger Age Championships and it's divided to "younger" and "older" group within itself as well:

1. Yes, the group is called "older age" born 2009 and 2010, which means oldest skater (b. 1.1.2009) may be sligthly over 13 and the youngest (b. 31.12.2010) may be slightly over 11. [for instance, Anna Shcherbakova was 11y11m old when she won this group in 2016, while second place finisher was over 13]
2. Yes, the group is called "younger age" born 2011 and earlier, oldest skater (b. 1.1.2011) may be almost 11, afaik there is no lower age limit for this category. For instance, Kamila Valieva competed in this group in Muscovian qualifications at 8yo in 2015 (didn't advance to nats) just as Elena Kostyleva in 2020 who actually advanced to and participated in nats at 8y5m.
3. The above is prime Russian Novice Championships, the latter is kinda second tier Novice+Junior Championships.
I may be wrong, but the eligibility for the latter is based not on age, but rather on sport category, so depending on skater advancement the age may vary, but iirc the upper limit was upper junior limit. It's beneficial for skaters from regions, who have more spots reserved in these championships, as they are usually not developing as fast as Muscovians or St. Petersburg's athletes.
4. Each championships have their own qualifications tournaments: in Moscow, St Petersburg and regions. All places have certain number of spots at nats to get (Moscow and St Petersburg the greatest numbers).
5. I know 6 top "prime" novice finishers get national team funding next year, don't remember what are the benefits of finishing high in the latter tournament.


Btw. Yulia Lipnitskaya made her national tournament level coaching debut yesterday in Yoshkar-Ola. Her skater did well.

 

[NaVi]

5) What are the implications of each event? For example, which determines selection for the novice national team?

I don't know the specifics, but I do know you make make the national team via the results of the Cup of Russia Final, Junior/Senior Nationals, Zhuk Memorial, and then the other Zonal Nationals(or whatever they're called).

A big advantage of the Russian system for at least developing female skaters is that skaters who are 12 years old and JGP eligible next year have 4 potential competitions to prove themselves. There have been good potential skaters(like Tessa Hong) in the US who have had bad skates in regionals/sections and basically had their careers derailed by a year. The US has made adjustments to how skaters qualify to nationals so it's not quite as bad as it used to be.

 

[DougDorsey]

3. The above is prime Russian Novice Championships, the latter is kinda second tier Novice+Junior Championships.
I may be wrong, but the eligibility for the latter is based not on age, but rather on sport category, so depending on skater advancement the age may vary, but iirc the upper limit was upper junior limit. It's beneficial for skaters from regions, who have more spots reserved in these championships, as they are usually not developing as fast as Muscovians or St. Petersburg's athletes.

Ah, got it. Thanks for this. So the current competitions are the "real" novice national championships, and the competition later this month, "Championship of Russia among girls and boys," is not purely novice, but rather a blend of novices and "pre-senior juniors," so to speak?

In that case, am I right that 2007-July-1 would be the upper cutoff date for that competition? So, in theory at least, a skater like Sofya Akatyeva is still age eligible to compete in the competition later this month?

And what is the lower cutoff date, if any? For example, I imagine all of the skaters in the older age group of the current novice nationals, like Masha Gordeeva and Vika Morozova, are age eligible to compete in the competition later this month? But what about the skaters in the younger age group of the current novice nationals, like Valeria Lukashova and Margarita Bazylyuk?

Oh, and I did notice Yulia Lipnitskaya coaching!

 

[fabienne1996]

did you watch the footage after Kamila got her scores and before Sasha stepped on the ice for flowers? i completely understand why she felt the way she did and i empathize with her, but your statement is very inaccurate. she was extremely disruptive and inconsolable. she was screaming and crying until the moment she stepped back on the ice.

and again that was a mental breakdown, you think she asked for press or for the organi zers ornhelpers to hound her instead of giving her just a few minutes to herself? it was of the backroom and in my opinion should have never been shown on camera. she didnt have anywhere else to go, she tried turning away , she tried to hide and everytime someone was going after her .

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Because there are clearly a lot of questions about how the Novice age-groups work, here's a general overview of the Russian age-group system with the current eligibility for this season (Based on this and this document):

Novices:
Younger age: Younger age: 2011-2013, Older age: 2009-2010
National competitions: All-Russian competition "Memorial S. A. Zhuk" among boys and girls (younger age)
Competitions include a Short Program, a Free Skate and an Elements segment and follow their own set of rules (like Single Axels being allowed in the SP or only two combinations in the Free for the Younger age-group), no pairs or Ice Dance couples
Older/Elder age: For singles: 2005-2010, for pairs and Ice Dance couples: 2003-2010 for the male partner, 2005-2010 for the female partner
National competitions: Championship of Russia among boys and girls (older age)
Competitions include a Short Program and a Free Skate and follow the same rules as Junior competitions

Qualification for Nationals through regional championships in the same age groups, with each region having a set amount of qualifiers (Moscow and St. Petersburg have 6 in all single skating categories in all three age groups).

Juniors (KMS/CMS = candidates for Master of sports): born between 01.07.2002 - 01.07.2009
National competitions: Cup of Russia (including Final), Junior Russian Nationals
Seniors (MS = Masters of sports): born before 01.07.2007
National competitions: Cup of Russia (including Final), Russian Nationals

Qualification for Nationals through Cup of Russia series and (J)GP assignments (and by being part of the National Team)

(Side note: Next to this system (and the international age-eligibility groups for ISU competitions), Russian skating also uses a system based on skill rather than age. This system is used more commonly for (novice) competitions than the age-group system.)

The Top 6 at the Championship of Russia among boys and girls (older age) make up the main Novice National Team, with the reserve Novice National Team often being made up of the Top 3 of the Older age group at the All-Russian competition "Memorial S. A. Zhuk" among boys and girls (younger age). However, sometimes Juniors who received JGP assignments but have not made it onto any National Team will be added to the reserve Novice National Team for funding purposes (like Veronika Zhilina this season).

(Please feel free to point out any mistakes, if you notice them.)

 

[silveruskate]

Anna is closest to Danil no question about it but he is not her main coach. He was also closer to Alina. I think he is like a buffer between EG and the skaters. I'm very happy the girls have him to lean on. But his relationship with some of the other girls haven't been the best he has always been very hard on Aliona.

But Daniil is the last person she speaks to and holds hands with before skating. Even when Eteri is there. No other skater in Sambo has ever. It isn't like Alina-Daniil, it's much closer. He always accompanies her to every competition even when Eteri doesn't (like GPs).

I agree with you and the other person that said Daniil is harsh on Aliona and I dislike him for it. But for the ones he likes he is more caring and affectionate. Like when crying Kamila tilted her head towards Daniil as he is more likely to comfort her than Eteri...lol.

 

[DougDorsey]

Older/Elder age: For singles: 2005 and younger, for pairs and Ice Dance couples: 2003 and younger for the male partner, 2005 and younger for the female partner
National competitions: Championship of Russia among boys and girls (older age)
Competitions include a Short Program and a Free Skate and follow the same rules as Junior competitions

2005 is the upper age limit? Is that right? That would suggest that skaters like Valieva, Muravieva, Samodelkina, Petrosyan, and so on were all eligible, in theory, to compete in all three of senior, junior, and older novice nationals this season?

The Top 6 at the Championship of Russia among boys and girls (older age) make up the main Novice National Team, with the reserve Novice National Team often being made up of the Top 3 of the Older age group at the All-Russian competition "Memorial S. A. Zhuk" among boys and girls (younger age).

Some folks were suggesting that a top five or six finish at the younger novice nationals this past week guarantees a spot on the novice national team. But you're saying it only guarantees a *reserve* spot, and only for the top three finishers, and only for the older age group? (Which would also imply that the younger group from this past week gains nothing from their placements?)

 

[DougDorsey]

iirc the upper limit was upper junior limit.

What is the official upper age limit for juniors in Russia? I thought it was the same as the upper age limit for international juniors, which for this season was 2002-July-1, I believe. (Even though it's rare to see skaters that old competing.)