2023-24 Russian Ice Dance

[lariko]

Also, if we are running the poll for potential junior candidate, I would guess Makhnonosov.

 

[Kittosuni]

Oh, that's why. I am still not sure it's a great decision, as much as I love both of them separately. Given Cirisano's age and situation, I would rather he stayed abroad. Czech dance is booming and has access to international stage. Way, way more prospects there. Russian ID atm is a dead end, even without the stranglehold from Davis/Smolkin.

Did Cirisano found a compatible partner abroad?

Yeah honestly if I were him I will stay abroad.

 

[lariko]

Did Cirisano found a compatible partner abroad?

Yeah honestly if I were him I will stay abroad.

He is listed with a Czech skater, Denisa Cimlova. There was no official word on the release, but his last competitive season abroad was 21-22, in juniors, so he should be free to skate seniors for anyone now. Well, at least by the book, he does. The behind the scene stuff is another matter. I will be overjoyed for transfer news. Kaganovskaya can find someone who doesn't have an exit out of Russia and be Russian Champion for years to come.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Russian ID atm is a dead end, even without the stranglehold from Davis/Smolkin.

Junior ranks are actually OK. It's when they get to seniors that the politics really starts strangling them, both in terms of selective scoring and wanton partner swapping driven by short term opportunism/desperation.

Considering that Cirisano was dumped by Khavronina to skate with Naryzhnyy, who had just split with Morozov, who the former had dumped Shanaeva for to skate with just last season (does this even make grammatical sense )... where he goes will probably depend also on how much he values partnership stability. Staying abroad with Cimlova, there's a substantially lower chance of him ending up screwed over eventually like Tyutyunina or Shustitskiy (Bagin too?)

 

[Kittosuni]

Junior ranks are actually OK. It's when they get to seniors that the politics really starts strangling them, both in terms of selective scoring and wanton partner swapping driven by short term opportunism/desperation.

Honestly Russian senior ID is at its lowest point at the moment. Khuda/Bazin being considered as the top Russian ID pair at the moment speaks for it. And I don't see anyone from the that senior group who is top 6 worthy in the worlds right now.

Couple of juniors are very promising so that is a good news.

 

[lariko]

Junior ranks are actually OK. It's when they get to seniors that the politics really starts strangling them, both in terms of selective scoring and wanton partner swapping driven by short term opportunism/desperation.

Considering that Cirisano was dumped by Khavronina to skate with Naryzhnyy, who had just split with Morozov, who the former had dumped Shanaeva for to skate with just last season (does this even make grammatical sense )... where he goes will probably depend also on how much he values partnership stability. Staying abroad with Cimlova, there's a substantially lower chance of him ending up screwed over eventually like Tyutyunina or Shustitskiy (Bagin too?)

I am not able to judge, obviously, but next to intl junior dance I see on JGP, I think they are lacking. Unlike other 3 disciplines, I don't really see anyone who are missing out on medals big time...

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I am not able to judge, obviously, but next to intl junior dance I see on JGP, I think they are lacking. Unlike other 3 disciplines, I don't really see anyone who are missing out on medals big time...

That's true to some extent. As an example, Rybakova/Makhnonosov are one of the few junior teams still remaining who did JGP in 2021-22. They placed 4th/5th. Leontieva/Gorelkin (who moved up this year) got a silver.

However... 4 out of 7 JGP events in 2021 were won by Russian teams: Khavronina/Cirisano, Kaganovskaya/Angelopol and Tyutyunina/Shustitskiy. All of whom have now split.

As for current junior ranks, I think the top 5 at Junior Nationals last season could have medalled in 2022-23, but they'd be lucky to qualify more than 1 team to the final, because last year had exceptionally strong teams (e.g. Mrazeks, Koreans). Many of these teams have graduated to seniors, so I would say this year the international field is weaker. I think we'll see around 2-3 Russian junior teams to be at a similar level to the eventual JGPF finalists.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

However... 4 out of 7 JGP events in 2021 were won by Russian teams: Khavronina/Cirisano, Kaganovskaya/Angelopol and Tyutyunina/Shustitskiy. All of whom have now split.

I get that teams all over the world spilt/form other teams all the time, but why does Russia seem to struggle to keep good teams together? They've had so many brilliant teams and not even one manages to stay togther for much more than a year or 2 into Seniors. That seems like a really high turnover. What's the reason? Is it a training thing, something cultural?

 

[Dreamer57]

Could Vasilisa team up with Ilya Vladimirov again, who was her partner on Ice Age?

Out of all teams, I'm probably looking forward to Morozov/Eremenko the most but hoping Stepanova/Bukin return!

 

[AlexBreeze]

Could Vasilisa team up with Ilya Vladimirov again, who was her partner on Ice Age?

Not impossible, Vladimirov doesn't have a partner now.

 

[lariko]

I get that teams all over the world spilt/form other teams all the time, but why does Russia seem to struggle to keep good teams together? They've had so many brilliant teams and not even one manages to stay togther for much more than a year or 2 into Seniors. That seems like a really high turnover. What's the reason? Is it a training thing, something cultural?

Right now, I think, lack of motivation must have an effect. I think it was very tight on top prior to Olympics with low chance of advancement, with a hangover after. now it's wide opened and, like, nobody is the leader, so personal relationships come to the foreground, versus toughing it out for the sake of competition. Gorshkov's passing might have had an effect too.

Like, pair skaters kept the succession going so far and aspirations, with the top three jostling, and new generation booming, three strong schools.

Kaganovskaya/Angelopol were a beacon, but they were so young, they didn't know how to be benevolent champions for others look up to. A lot of their narrative was of being shafted, 'cause need to earn their stripes.

Let's see if Stepanova/Bukin can restore some equilibrium to the rocking boat.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I get that teams all over the world spilt/form other teams all the time, but why does Russia seem to struggle to keep good teams together? They've had so many brilliant teams and not even one manages to stay togther for much more than a year or 2 into Seniors. That seems like a really high turnover. What's the reason? Is it a training thing, something cultural?

I'd like to know too, it's so frustrating.

Some of the recent breakups can be traced to specific events like coaching team mergers/restructuring (e.g. whatever went down with Zhuk/Svinin starting a couple of years ago that stuffed up their camp). Morozov seems to be a chaos factor too.

Obviously breakups happen everywhere due to outgrowing, or when one person gets burnt out or sick, or interpersonal drama (like Angelopol). However I get the sense that many of the latest Russian partnership rearrangements are driven by external politics, where they're trying to create stronger teams by trading for a partner with better scores/more influential coaches, rather than working to improve as an existing team.

It happens everywhere, but in Russia I think it's easier logistically to swap partners since most of the top skaters are based in Moscow or SPB already. Also, just speculating that maybe the coaches/fed have more influence on pairings (I'm reminded of the Chinese fed, who seem to have terribly mismanaged their junior pair teams in the past few years).

BTW looks like Alexander Shustitskiy was rinkside with his old coaches at the latest Moscow junior championships, I guess he's done then

 

[AlexBreeze]

BTW looks like Alexander Shustitskiy was rinkside with his old coaches at the latest Moscow junior championships, I guess he's done then

I saw that Kravchenko was looking for a partner. After that, Shustitskiy said that he took a break from skating.

 

[Mariiiiskate]

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www.sports.ru

So potentially Vasilisa will be paired up with Maxim then.

Sucks for Liza.

 

[AlexBreeze]

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Ðб ÑÑом ÑообÑила ФедеÑаÑÐ¸Ñ ÑигÑÑного каÑÐ°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð Ð¾ÑÑии.

www.sports.ru

So potentially Vasilisa will be paired up with Maxim then.

They have already teamed up.

 

[Mariiiiskate]

They have already teamed up.

Looking forward to see how they will do. I do feel for Liza I doubt she can get a partner quickly enough to be able to skate most of this season unless she pairs up with Valery.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Sucks for Liza.

Apparently, they say that P/N split some time ago. It's even kind of strange that it became known only now.

 

[Mariiiiskate]

Apparently, they say that P/N split some time ago. It's even kind of strange that it became known only now.

But they were announced for test skates just few weeks ago? Idk either way hopefully everyone involved will find suitable partners and have a good season regardless.

 

[AlexBreeze]

However I get the sense that many of the latest Russian partnership rearrangements are driven by external politics, where they're trying to create stronger teams by trading for a partner with better scores/more influential coaches, rather than working to improve as an existing team.

Only one such partnership comes to my mind - Tyutyunina/Bagin. And it didn't end well.

 

[AlexBreeze]

At least there are still Mironova/Ustenko. And their incredible free dance announcement.