2023-24 Russian Nationals Women's Free Skate

[yume]

Yes, Kostornaya is an interesting example. Gleikhengauz managed to package her perfectly. Kostornaya was never one of the most technical skaters, She has a great pose, that is her strength, and sometimes people mistake that for artistry.

I remember her at Russian Junior Nationals 2017. She was a nobody and she finished 16th behind the likes of Kurakova, Nugumanova, Samodurova and Talalaikina. And while she was waiting for her (not so good) scores, the fans were all over Gubanova for autographs.

Then she moved to the Eteri camp, and they brilliantly transformed her into a star. That is choreographically genius. And it is an example of making the most of what you got. So Gleikhengauz and co certainly have some success stories that wouldn't have happened without their direction.

Yeah, they did a good job with her. She really had a nice set of programs for her first junior season. Eteri worked well on adios noniños and Stella still is my favourite free from her, and that was a 0+7 program. Definitely Gleikhengauz's best work for her after departure. Too bad she likes pop culture too much, i think lyrical is what suits her the best. I wonder what the program she ditched for twilight looked like.
Packaging always have been their strength. It could be seen with Tursynbaeva for example. But their biggest flaw is that they were/are hiding their skaters' flaws, a bit too well. Instead of erasing them. Though it's the best strategy to answer the urgency of winning medals, it's a disservice for the skaters. Their flaws were pretty glaring when they went to other coaches and choreographers.
I'm a Zagitova's fan but i can say that it would have been pretty tragic if she went to another choreographer who would not spot her flaws right away and work on it. She was not a natural performer and her SS needed work.

 

[Isk]

The FS music selection this year in Russia was widely terrible - theres no excuse. I agree there seems to be a lack of sophistication which is bizarre given the music history of Russia. I also find it odd how few people recognize how inappropriate some of these songs are. However I wasnt impressed internationally at all either with the music. You're also kind of picking at skaters fresh from juniors with little experience (and not even the best of that category). Nevermind that we lost Akateva this year.

Also your off-hand implication that minor keys could somehow indicate an objective lack of sophistication is bizarre. I'm not a fan of vapid drama either but, I dont know what place minor keys could intrinsically have in regards to objective musical analysis.

Given that SS is a measure of technique and not artistry I find that its extremely disingenuous to compare Japanese SS to Russian SS when Russian girls jump multiple ultra-c. Even then, I dont see Valieva, Petrosian, Sinitsyna or Sadkova's SS as poor at all. You can even throw Gushchina in there (although her FS music was also quite poor).

I didnt watch the Japanese nationals but I did see the 3 Japanese girls internationally and the only one who's FS impressed me artistically was Rino. Shes very sophisticated, but I dont put her any higher than Petrosian artistically. I also liked Muravieva's FS a lot though I'm sure you disagree so you can ignore that. Sadkova was good but not Rino level of course. Sinitsyna historically is second to none but her FS was also uncharacteristically lacking this year, but her SP was great. I'll mention also that in general Kaori had some of her weakest programs ever artistically too this year.

The SPs this year in Russia were generally much stronger than the FS artistically.

Dvoeglazova and Prineva from juniors have fabuluous free skates but perhaps this isnt relevant.

I should add also that your comment about Adeliia's music is beyond pointless. Rachmaninoff or Bolero have been skated to countless times but good music does not get worn out.

I'd appreciate if you can let me know which Japanese skaters you believe demonstrate the superiority of Japan aside from Rino, who I mentioned, but alone does not prove superiority to me. I dont recall if Rinka impressed me this year though I did watch her - and as I mentioned Kaori was not who she should be which from what I understand is a majority perspective internationally.

Actually, I don't see it this way. I, OTOH, like Kaori's programs this year, especially the short, but the free is interesting too. I don't particularly like "Summer time", e.g. I can't manage to watch Madelene Schizas' LP to the end, but Kaori makes "Summer time" not boring. Joannie Rochette also did this a long time ago. I think Mone Chiba has fantastic skating skills, the rest of them are not bad either.

The minor keys do not in themselves constitute bad taste, but they are associated with the presence of drama, or should I say -- melodrama (Tchaikovsky's piano concerto 1 and Rach-2 are very dramatic but they are in major, so there are different kinds of drama). But imagine melodrama in major keys. I have a feeling that they do too much of it at a too young age.

About Adelia: my point was that Gleikhengaus would probably not know this music piece and would not have used it for Adelia, because it's not very well known. But there was a program to it recently for another skater from a coaching group known for their creativity, and that program really stood out. If it were not for this, my guess is that Adelia would skate to something else. Now, there are lots of music pieces that are not very well known, and nobody has used them in a program that stood out -- take them. But it requires research and risk.

I think overall Japanese ladies have softer knees, and this is what I associate with better skating skills, because knee work helps you gain speed on steps. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking so narrowly. Also, music selections were more varied I thought (I watched the whole ladies event this year at JN).

Also I agree with other users saying in this thread that internationally there are also good and bad. There is just more variety, because there are more schools involved, and we do get to see good programs here and there. Sandra Besic's are mostly good and not everything by Lori Nichol, Burne, Richaud, etc. are masterpieces IMO. David Wilson worked very well with Yu Na, not so well with Mai Mihara IMO, Lori did some underwhelming choreo for the Chinese in the past, while Russian Olga Glinka made some very interesting programs for Russian skaters. Everyone has good and bad, I think it is important to learn from the best.

Re: learning, until the late 80s (also pre-internet era) Russians were behind the iron curtain. Nowadays, anyone can watch historical videos on youtube, which were aired on TV e.g. in the USA 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years ago or earlier, recorded by somebody from their TV-set a long time ago. Professional comps, grand-prix events, ice shows and other countries' nationals were never aired in the USSR. Only the top-level athletes/coaches got international assignments and could see some of the foreign skating live. I can totally appreciate how hard it must have been to learn from foreign artistic skaters under such conditions. I think this is part of the problem: people pass on the knowledge they were exposed to. I doubt that many top-level skaters world-wide know a whole lot about the history of figure skating. I remember Lambiel's interviewer (forgot her name) once asking Shoma Uno, which of Lambiel's programs were his favourites, and Shoma said he had no idea, because he watched none of the them, and Lambiel is fairly recent. If skaters get to go to local comps and see Eteri girls' programs there, and those programs win, that's what they learn from.

Yeah, they did a good job with her. She really had a nice set of programs for her first junior season. Eteri worked well on adios noniños and Stella still is my favourite free from her, and that was a 0+7 program. Definitely Gleikhengauz's best work for her after departure. Too bad she likes pop culture too much, i think lyrical is what suits her the best. I wonder what the program she ditched for twilight looked like.
Packaging always have been their strength. It could be seen with Tursynbaeva for example. But their biggest flaw is that they were/are hiding their skaters' flaws, a bit too well. Instead of erasing them. Though it's the best strategy to answer the urgency of winning medals, it's a disservice for the skaters. Their flaws were pretty glaring when they went to other coaches and choreographers.
I'm a Zagitova's fan but i can say that it would have been pretty tragic if she went to another choreographer who would not spot her flaws right away and work on it. She was not a natural performer and her SS needed work.

The "Nonino" program was Eteri's creation, "Stella" was Daniil's. I think both were good, the only problem with Stella is that this music piece is 3.5 min long, so for the senior nationals they extended it, and it was not great. But otherwise Alena had a junior season that year, so it worked. Then, the Angel program was interesting, except after they reused it. Otherwise it went downhill: Juliet, Twilight, Billy Eilish.

What they do well is they take advantage of every point they can score. They count very well. What they did badly so far is they stopped developing the girls' various skills after the girls started winning at 15 y.o. This coaching group's strategy is not designed for skaters' development. It is designed for the girls to skim the cream at 15-16 y.o. and then leave and let the next 15-16 y.olds take their place. The jump technique is not designed to last. There is no point developing skaters' musicality and other non-jump skills, as it's not going to pay off. The inflow of girls was pretty good in the past few years too, so they could afford to be choosy and only choose those skaters who already had all triples learned from other coaches. I suspect it's going to change due to the changing situation.

The urgency to pursue the content comes from the present situation, in which the coaches with more medals/results get better financing, working conditions, etc. In some FS nations it might not matter whether a skater finishes 6th or 7th at the nationals, but in RusFed, the difference is that the 6th place gets financing and the 7th place doesn't, although I don't know if they still form their team envelopes in this same way nowadays.

As for Zagitova, I am sorry to say that she was an Olympic champion when Daniil choreographed PhOTO and Carmen, could it be more corny? OTOH, "Me Voy" (I believe it was done by Eteri) and Cleopatra were sort of OK. They have good and bad just like everyone else, but overall, my general feeling is that they should outsource. It may be related to funding: the person who does the programs, gets the financing for them, so outsourcing is counter-profitable, maybe that's the reason. Egadze: this guy can do quads (with an optimized technique), but otherwise he is not great. But he is there to last and he is their only vehicle to international comps right now. Choose something interesting for him, develop a style, so he can stand out. But they do Tango Roxanne.

 

[Mathematician]

Actually, I don't see it this way. I, OTOH, like Kaori's programs this year, especially the short, but the free is interesting too. I don't particularly like "Summer time", e.g. I can't manage to watch Madelene Schizas' LP to the end, but Kaori makes "Summer time" not boring. Joannie Rochette also did this a long time ago. I think Mone Chiba has fantastic skating skills, the rest of them are not bad either.

The minor keys do not in themselves constitute bad taste, but they are associated with the presence of drama, or should I say -- melodrama (Tchaikovsky's piano concerto 1 and Rach-2 are very dramatic but they are in major, so there are different kinds of drama). But imagine melodrama in major keys. I have a feeling that they do too much of it at a too young age.

About Adelia: my point was that Gleikhengaus would probably not know this music piece and would not have used it for Adelia, because it's not very well known. But there was a program to it recently for another skater from a coaching group known for their creativity, and that program really stood out. If it were not for this, my guess is that Adelia would skate to something else. Now, there are lots of music pieces that are not very well known, and nobody has used them in a program that stood out -- take them. But it requires education and risk.

I think overall Japanese ladies have softer knees, and this is what I associate with better skating skills, because knee work helps you gain speed on steps. Perhaps I am wrong in thinking so. Also, music selections were more varied I thought (I watched the whole ladies event this year at JN).

Also I agree with other people saying in this thread that internationally there are also good and bad. There is just more variety, because there are more schools involved, and we do get to see good programs here and there. Sandra Besic's are mostly good and not everything by Lori Nichol, Burne, Richaud, etc. are masterpieces IMO. David Wilson worked very well with Yu Na, not so well with Mai Mihara IMO, Lori did some underwhelming choreo for the Chinese in the past, while Russian Olga Glinka made some very interesting programs for Russian skaters. Everyone has good and bad, I think it is important to learn from the best.

Re: learning, until the late 80s (also pre-internet era) Russians were behind the iron curtain. Nowadays, anyone can watch historical videos on youtube, which were aired on TV e.g. in the USA 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years ago or earlier, recorded by somebody from their TV-set a long time ago. Professional comps, grand-prix events, ice shows and other countries' nationals were never aired in the USSR. Only the top-level athletes/coaches got international assignments and could see some of the foreign skating live. I can totally appreciate how hard it must have been to learn from foreign artistic skaters under such conditions. I think this is part of the problem: people pass on the knowledge they were exposed to. I doubt that many top-level skaters world-wide know a whole lot about the history of figure skating. I remember Lambiel's interviewer (forgot her name) once asking Shoma Uno, which of Lambiel's programs were his favourites, and Shoma said he had no idea, because he watched none of the them, and Lambiel is fairly recent. If skaters get to go to local comps and see Eteri girls' programs there, and those programs win, that's what they learn from.

The "Nonino" program was Eteri's creation, "Stella" was Daniil's. I think both were good, the only problem with Stella is that this music piece is 3.5 min long, so for the senior nationals they extended it, and it was not great. But otherwise Alena had a junior season that year, so it worked. Then, the Angel program was interesting, except after they reused it. Otherwise it went downhill: Juliet, Twilight, etc.

What they do well is they take advantage of every point they can score. They count very well. What they did badly so far is they stopped developing the girls' various skills after the girls started winning at 15 y.o. This coaching group's strategy is not designed for skaters' development. It is designed for the girls to skim the cream at 15-16 y.o. and then leave and let the next 15-16 y.o. take their place. The jump technique is not designed to last. There is no point developing skaters' musicality and other non-jump skills, as it's not going to pay off. The inflow of girls was pretty big in the last few years too, so they could afford to be choosy and only chose those who already had all triples learned from other coaches. I suspect it's not going to be the same, due to the changing situation.

The urgency to pursue the content comes from the situation when the coaches with more medals/results get better financing, working conditions, etc. In some FS nations it might not matter whether a skater finishes 6th or 7th at the nationals, but in RusFed, the difference is that the 6th place gets financing and the 7th place doesn't, although I don't know if they still form their team envelopes in this same way nowadays.

As for Zagitova, I am sorry to say that she was an Olympic champion when Daniil choreographed PhOTO and Carmen, could it be more corny? OTOH, "Me Voy" (I believe it was done by Eteri) and Cleopatra were sort of OK. They have good and bad just like everyone else, but overall, my general feeling is that they should outsource. It may be related to funding: the person who does the programs, gets the financing for them, so outsourcing is counter-profitable, maybe that's the reason. Egadze: this guy can do quads (with an optimized technique), but otherwise he is not great. But he is there to last and he is their only vehicle to international comps right now. Choose something interesting for him, develop a style, so he can stand out. But they do Tango Roxanne.

Ok first of all were having an objective discussion so the way you see Kaori doesnt matter. I'm referencing general consensus, which is that she was weak this year relative to previous showings, likely due to lack of competition and therefore lack of motivation. I happen to agree with this perspective however thats not relevant. I could end this discussion by saying "in my eyes" everyone except Petrosian and Akateva suck but thats not the goal.

Secondly, Tchaikovsky 1 and Rach 2 are both in minor. The latter being particularly textbook and unmistakably C-minor.

Third, I'm defending Petrosian as an artist not Gleikhenhauz as a musical connoisseur. Also this program is Eteri's work. The point is that Adeliia's free skate in and of itself is not second to any other program this year by any metric - domestically or internationally.

Again, I never claimed Russians are better at everything. Of course Japanese have softer knees and the like, but its an unfair comparison when Russians work on quads and other factors which are also objectively rated for skating skills.

The rest of your points stray from our original discussion. It doesnt matter to me how old the girls are or how long their careers last in this context. That is a valid but separate discussion. The current discussion is on the direct quality of skating and artistry by whoever it might be at the time.

About Zagitova, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Her Olympic free skate, from what I have seen, is generally considered as one of the best programs ever skated. I see this opinion shared even by the most vehemently anti-Russian redditors. I do happen to agree as well, though it isnt necessarily a personal favourite, but it is by all measures an incredible program. Her SP was not at the same level, a bit more generic thematically but by no means poor. Anyways, this is all irrelevant regardless.

 

[Isk]

Ok first of all were having an objective discussion so the way you see Kaori doesnt matter. I'm referencing general consensus, which is that she was weak this year relative to previous showings, likely due to lack of competition and therefore lack of motivation. I happen to agree with this perspective however thats not relevant. I could end this discussion by saying "in my eyes" everyone except Petrosian and Akateva suck but thats not the goal.

Secondly, Tchaikovsky 1 and Rach 2 are both in minor. The latter being particularly textbook and unmistakably C-minor.

Third, I'm defending Petrosian as an artist not Gleikhenhauz as a musical connoisseur. Also this program is Eteri's work. The point is that Adeliia's free skate in and of itself is not second to any other program this year by any metric - domestically or internationally.

Again, I never claimed Russians are better at everything. Of course Japanese have softer knees and the like, but its an unfair comparison when Russians work on quads and other factors which are also objectively rated for skating skills.

The rest of your points stray from our original discussion. It doesnt matter to me how old the girls are or how long their careers last in this context. That is a valid but separate discussion. The current discussion is on the direct quality of skating and artistry by whoever it might be at the time.

About Zagitova, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Her Olympic free skate, from what I have seen, is generally considered as one of the best programs ever skated. I see this opinion shared even by the most vehemently anti-Russian redditors. I do happen to agree as well, though it isnt necessarily a personal favourite, but it is by all measures an incredible program. Her SP was not at the same level, a bit more generic thematically but by no means poor. Anyways, this is all irrelevant regardless.

You are right about the concertos, my bad, I should have checked.

Sorry, but the statement below is an unobjective statement, I am not sure whose opinion you are quoting, or maybe it is your own. Which metrics are you using?

The point is that Adeliia's free skate in and of itself is not second to any other program this year by any metric - domestically or internationally.

(and this was not my original point.)

I was talking about Zagitova in the post-olympic seasons, I don't believe I said anything about her Olympic programs.

If my opinion doesn't matter to you, that's fine, although I don't think it is a nice thing to say to anyone. But if you insist on an objective discussion, let me point it out that you make a lot of unsubstantiated claims. To try and be as close to objectivity as possible in a discussion about a subjective sport, you need to at least substantiate them.

Japanese work on ultra-C too. There were 5 girls attempting ultra-C in the free skate at the Russian Nationals, and 5 girls at the Japanese Nationals:
Petrosian: 4F, 4T+2T, 4T, Muravieva: 3A+2T, Valieva: 4T, Sadkova: 4T+2T, 4T, Gorbachova: 4S
Shimada: 4T, 3A, Watanabe: 3A, Sumiyoshi: 4T, Higuchi: 3A, Yoshida: 3A
The number of attempts and the success rate was higher at the Russian Nationals: 3 vs 0 successful quads, and 1 vs 1 successful 3A, but it's not like nobody else is trying. The approach to training and competition is different in the two countries, but I didn't say anything about Russian skaters being unworthy, just that the programs overall were a bit harder to watch (for me), I am not objective, to each its own.

 

[Mathematician]

You are right about the concertos, my bad, I should have checked.

Sorry, but the statement below is an unobjective statement, I am not sure whose opinion you are quoting, or maybe it is your own. Which metrics are you using?

(and this was not my original point.)

I was talking about Zagitova in the post-olympic seasons, I don't believe I said anything about her Olympic programs.

If my opinion doesn't matter to you, that's fine, although I don't think it is a nice thing to say to anyone. But if you insist on an objective discussion, let me point it out that you make a lot of unsubstantiated claims in your posts. To try and be as close to objectivity as possible in a discussion about a subjective sport, you need to at least substantiate them.

On Zagitova, you said you're sorry to call her Olympic champion - whatever that meant.

I dont know what claims specifically you want me to substantiate. I'm relaying my observation on general opinion from multiple sources. Do you want me to screenshot every post I see? I didnt say I dont care about your opinion I said its not a relevant here as a counter argument.

Yes art tends to be effectively subjective, but I am doing my best to be objective by referencing what I have observed to be general consensus. Meanwhile your counter was just "I didnt see it that way".

Your point was that Russia struggled in music selection and artistry to a degree which makes it "hard to watch" relative to international skating in a condescending manner. My counterpoint was the quality of Petrosian's skating and artistry among others so yes my referencing of her program's decency is relevant by extension. I also mentioned international skaters and compared as fairly as possible.

No, I didnt no make an objective supporting point to my statement which you quoted, because I dont need to. I have not seen anyone disagree, and if you want to explain how Petrosian's FS performance was inferior to anyone internationally on a general metric (not just "soft knees") go ahead, and I will reply with my artistic criticisms. But you made the original claim therefore the burden is yours first.

 

[Isk]

On Zagitova, you said you're sorry to call her Olympic champion - whatever that meant.

I dont know what claims specifically you want me to substantiate. I'm relaying my observation on general opinion from multiple sources. Do you want me to screenshot every post I see? I didnt say I dont care about your opinion I said its not a relevant here as a counter argument.

Yes art tends to be effectively subjective, but I am doing my best to be objective by referencing what I have observed to be general consensus. Meanwhile your counter was just "I didnt see it that way".

Your point was that Russia struggled in music selection and artistry to a degree which makes it "hard to watch" relative to international skating in a condescending manner. My counterpoint was the quality of Petrosian's skating and artistry among others so yes my referencing of her program's decency is relevant by extension. I also mentioned international skaters and compared as fairly as possible.

No, I didnt no make an objective supporting point to my statement which you quoted, because I dont need to. I have not seen anyone disagree, and if you want to explain how Petrosian's FS performance was inferior to anyone internationally on a general metric (not just "soft knees") go ahead, and I will reply with my artistic criticisms. But you made the original claim therefore the burden is yours first.

You misread. I said that I was sorry that in the post-olympic season, Alina, then a reigning OC, had programs to music that was very overused -- this was an example of suboptimal programming for her (and this is my subjective opinion). I didn't say I was sorry she was an OC -- this is not for me to decide.

The only thing I said about Adelia in my original post that I doubt that she would be skating to "February" if Stanislava had not done so before. I may be wrong. If I am wrong, cudos to Eteri for choosing it. I did not discuss Adelia's skating or performance, in fact I believe I said that I liked her music choice.

If you don't think you need to substantiate your claims, that's OK, but then why are you complaining about me expressing my subjective opinions? BTW, I am fine with people expressing opinions, if they are expressed nicely. And I am not condecending, I do think that suboptimal approach to music and program construction can take away from enjoyment, I very much would like this to get better. Is there anything wrong with this?

 

[Mathematician]

OK. I said that I was sorry that in the post-olympic season, Alina, then a reigning OC, had programs to music that was very overused -- this was an example of suboptimal programming for her (and this is my subjective opinion). I didn't say I was sorry she was an OC -- this is not for me to decide.

The only thing I said about Adelia in my original post that I doubt that she would be skating to "February" if Stanislava had not done so before. I may be wrong. If I am wrong, cudos to Eteri for choosing it. I did not discuss Adelia's skating or performance, in fact I believe I said that I liked her music choice.

If you don't think you need to substantiate your claims, that's OK, but then why are you complaining about me expressing my subjective opinions? BTW, I am fine with people expressing opinions, if they are expressed nicely. And I am not condecending, I do think that suboptimal approach to music and program construction can take away from enjoyment, I very much would like this to get better. Is there anything wrong with this?

I already explained the difference between the validity of our arguments. You provided opinion I provided consensus. Again you complain for lack of evidence but did not specify on what you expect from me even though I asked about it. I also explained why you have the primary burden of substantiation (even though I substantiated plenty anyways for a subjective discussion). I also explained the relevance of Adeliia's program despite you not directly criticizing her, as she along with others I mentioned originally (who were all left ignored) counter the general point on Russian skating.

It seems you choose to pretend not to understand. You're drowning right now and it is obvious. I withdraw from this discussion because it is not intellectually honest at all.

 

[Isk]

I already explained the difference between the validity of our arguments. You provided opinion I provided consensus. Again you complain for lack of evidence but did not specify on what you expect from me even though I asked about it. I also explained why you have the primary burden of substantiation (even though I substantiated plenty anyways for a subjective discussion). I also explained the relevance of Adeliia's program despite you not directly criticizing her, as she along with others I mentioned originally (who were all left ignored) counter the general point on Russian skating.

It seems you choose to pretend not to understand. You're drowning right now and it is obvious. I withdraw from this discussion because it is not intellectually honest at all.

I can't answer every one of the points you are trying to make, this would require a lot of analysis, because to me appealing to a 3rd party is not enough. My original post was about overall subpar quality of music choices. This is reality, in the Russian FS, in the foreign FS as well, frankly. A "consensus" is a shared opinion of a group. It is still only an opinion, albeit a shared one. It has little relevance to personal enjoyment of anything. I suppose if some group shares a view that Kaori is weaker this season -- in which aspect? program-wise, skating-wise I do not see it, and she just won her 1st GPF gold and nationals to boot -- this can hardly prevent other people from enjoying her skating. All I said about Adelia is that her music choice was not a fresh idea, despite me actually rather liking it, and I am getting tired of repeating myself. I did not discuss her or anyone else's "artistry", I already explained elsewhere why I avoid using this word. So no, your reference to Adelia in this context is not relevant. You are trying to refute claims I never made, also occasionally misreading some I did make. This conversation is going nowhere, so yeah, best to end it.

 

[yume]

The "Nonino" program was Eteri's creation, "Stella" was Daniil's.

Yeah, that's what i said. Maybe my sentences were not well written.

What they do well is they take advantage of every point they can score. They count very well. What they did badly so far is they stopped developing the girls' various skills after the girls started winning at 15 y.o. This coaching group's strategy is not designed for skaters' development. It is designed for the girls to skim the cream at 15-16 y.o. and then leave and let the next 15-16 y.olds take their place. The jump technique is not designed to last. There is no point developing skaters' musicality and other non-jump skills, as it's not going to pay off. The inflow of girls was pretty good in the past few years too, so they could afford to be choosy and only choose those skaters who already had all triples learned from other coaches. I suspect it's going to change due to the changing situation.

The urgency to pursue the content comes from the present situation, in which the coaches with more medals/results get better financing, working conditions, etc. In some FS nations it might not matter whether a skater finishes 6th or 7th at the nationals, but in RusFed, the difference is that the 6th place gets financing and the 7th place doesn't, although I don't know if they still form their team envelopes in this same way nowadays.

Yeah they always have been a "winning medals" team than "developping a skater" team, especially after Medvedeva. Medvedeva grew up with Tutberidze, turned senior 3 years before olys and had the luxury to be Tutberidze's only relevant senior for two years, so i think they put more effort with her. That's why she lasted a bit more than the others. After that, they had multiple seniors each year with juniors ready to replace them. The internal competition became too tight. They didn't feel the need to do more with such a big pool of talent. If the pool was way smaller, i think they would have done more to keep their skaters in comps longer. They are in a situation where they can afford not to care about the career but about the medals the skater can win in two years, sadly.

Actually there was more effort with the men (where they didn't have so much choice). Morisi had really interesting programs and his performance abilities improved. Probably only Mishin could have improved his technique. He was getting so much heat for that 4T while there is a famous skater who always quad flooped, flutzooped and quad underrotated his way to medals without so much heat about his more than questionable technique.

As for Zagitova, I am sorry to say that she was an Olympic champion when Daniil choreographed PhOTO and Carmen, could it be more corny? OTOH, "Me Voy" (I believe it was done by Eteri) and Cleopatra were sort of OK. They have good and bad just like everyone else, but overall, my general feeling is that they should outsource. It may be related to funding: the person who does the programs, gets the financing for them, so outsourcing is counter-profitable, maybe that's the reason. Egadze: this guy can do quads (with an optimized technique), but otherwise he is not great. But he is there to last and he is their only vehicle to international comps right now. Choose something interesting for him, develop a style, so he can stand out. But they do Tango Roxanne.

Carmen was not that bad. POTO was terrible. Me voy was very good. Cleopatra was ok, she was having fun. Though people said it was an empty program because of fewer transitions while they complained for years because she had "too much" transitions in her programs.

They have a new choreographer for juniors it seems. It's already something. I don't expect them to ask other choreographers to work with some of their skaters. They should tho.