2023 CS Nepela Rhythm Dance

[CaroLiza_fan]

In dance, that's a huge advantage.

You cut the quote short, though. That sentence and the following sentence were supposed to go together. With hindsight, I probably should have used a semi-colon rather than a full stop.

Yes, it is a huge advantage if everybody performs the same. But if the leaders make more mistakes than the partnerships behind them, it isn't.

There is nothing nice about this score

It is very nice if you are working out gaps between partnerships! Saves you having to open the calculator and copying and pasting multiple numbers!

Yes, they made a mistake but skating first really wasn't helpful. Some of the GOES received were very stingy. Marjorie and Zachary shouldn't be held up. That's not what I am saying. However, their RD, despite the twizzle error, was a real thrill ! and it wasn't rewarded enough for what it was. The consolation is that it's their first competition of the year, they scratched from ACI. So clearly, it's going to get better and better. They are over 10 points under their PB so that score for them is atrocious.

I haven't watched any of the videos, so I don't know what happened. But, I agree that skating first didn't help. The Judges weren't warmed up and into the swing of things yet. If they were later in the competition, no doubt they would have scored higher. I know it shouldn't be like that, but it always is.

And I wouldn't get too concerned about how their score here compares to their PB. It's the first competitive performance of a new programme. You never expect high scores in these circumstances.

Their first competition of the season is for setting the foundations to build on in the weeks and months to come.

And build they will!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

You cut the quote short, though. That sentence and the following sentence were supposed to go together.

I don't think one needs to answer word for word anything and everything someone else says.

It is very nice if you are working out gaps between partnerships! Saves you having to open the calculator and copying and pasting multiple numbers!

I don't need a calculator

I haven't watched any of the videos, so I don't know what happened. But, I agree that skating first didn't help. The Judges weren't warmed up and into the swing of things yet. If they were later in the competition, no doubt they would have scored higher. I know it shouldn't be like that, but it always is.

Go watch it. Yes, they make a mistake on twizzles but it's a super fun program compared to most and well skated otherwise. Not well rewarded. (my opinion)

And I wouldn't get too concerned about how their score here compares to their PB. It's the first competitive performance of a new programme. You never expect high scores in these circumstances.

In their case, it does matter. As Canadian's 3rd team, they are always vulnerable. I dislike ice dance because of these pecking orders. LaLa have paid a very high price for the lack of spots at worlds last year and some younger and/or less polished teams which were behind them are now ahead of them... even newer teams. Sure, one event, but with the way ice dance works, this could set a trend I would rather not see happening. Yes, I am biased, I like them very much but I tend to like good skaters HA !

Their first competition of the season is for setting the foundations to build on in the weeks and months to come.

sure. ... but as you can see with a number of junior teams joining the circuit, the first competition of the season is also important to some extent, in establishing some sort of pecking order. I fail to see a world where LaLa and the Taschlers should score the same in PCS. I like the Czech but to me, they are on the next level (one lower) than a team like LaLa. So there.

 

[Azikin]

the power of terrifying blonde women

I think it's rather 2 years of development that they "score even higher as Georgians"...

 

[icewhite]

@4everchan I think you're biased here.

My favourites among these teams are the Taschlers, I think they are amazing dancers - but their programs don't do the best for them, and this one is actually terrible. It's quite a bore, the costumes are terrible, and it does nothing to showcase their abilities and the choreo is in no way intriguing per se. In so far I can see one would prefer the "LaLa"s, their program is much more entertaining, it does have a real idea and concept, there's more going on.
I don't regard Lilah Gibson a very good dancer, (compared to the absolute top skaters), and when I first saw a version of this program in the early season I was like It was messy, didn't have flow, was bland. But now? It's pretty ace. And I don't even like the music per se much. But the choreo just works, it works for them, it has intrigue throughout. And Lilah seems so improved as a dancer - I have no idea whether she is, or whether it's the program - but looking at the whole thing I can see why they are getting damn good scores.
Davis/Smolkin, to me, look on a similar level as before, which is, they are pretty good, but far from breathtaking. I am okay with their ranking here, because their program was well done from start to finish, all the moves came at the right time - while LaLa had one major issue in my eyes, they don't hold the tension throughout, and that makes the program look a bit messy and not as accomplished.
Overall the PCS are okay in my eyes, even if I think it's highly unfair because it seems the teams behind the athletes are more important here than the athlete's abilities themselves.

Looking at the scores though, the difference comes mostly from the elements. If we want to talk about the scoring we need to talk about whether the levels and GOE are justified, but honestly I never feel like digging deeper there because everytime I did in ice dance, it was just frustrating.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I don't think one needs to answer word for word anything and everything someone else says.

We're even. I forgot to type the rest of what I wanted to say about the size of the lead!

Too early in the morning, coupled with trying to get a whole pile of things on here done before the MotoGP Sprint Race from Japan starts.

I don't need a calculator

I could do it without a calculator too, but it's quicker using it.

Go watch it.

I'll try to catch up on some of my favourites (including them). Unfortunately, there are a lot of things happening this weekend. Which means I won't be watching any more of the skating action.

In their case, it does matter. As Canadian's 3rd team, they are always vulnerable. I dislike ice dance because of these pecking orders.

Same here. Ice Dance is far more influenced by reputation and politics than the other categories. And it does spoil the enjoyment. Especially when it results in really good partnerships missing out on opportunities.

It is a real shame that this is the case, because Ice Dance is a beautiful category to watch.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

@4everchan I think you're biased here.

aren't we all? I could actually make a spreadsheet per user, with their biases for and biases against

My favourites among these teams are the Taschlers, I think they are amazing dancers -

agreed they are great.

but their programs don't do the best for them, and this one is actually terrible. It's quite a bore, the costumes are terrible, and it does nothing to showcase their abilities and the choreo is in no way intriguing per se.

it's been a few season that they are not served with good programs, and personally, i have lost interest. sorry not sorry.

In so far I can see one would prefer the "LaLa"s, their program is much more entertaining, it does have a real idea and concept, there's more going on.

and it's been like this, pretty much every season.

I don't regard Lilah Gibson a very good dancer, (compared to the absolute top skaters), and when I first saw a version of this program in the early season I was like It was messy, didn't have flow, was bland. But now? It's pretty ace. And I don't even like the music per se much. But the choreo just works, it works for them, it has intrigue throughout. And Lilah seems so improved as a dancer - I have no idea whether she is, or whether it's the program - but looking at the whole thing I can see why they are getting damn good scores.

still overscored in my biased opinion. Look at her feet on the ice... whenever they are on the ice and not flying off-ice.

Davis/Smolkin, to me, look on a similar level as before

agreed

, which is, they are pretty good, but far from breathtaking.

agreed

I am okay with their ranking here, because their program was well done from start to finish, all the moves came at the right time

i am rarely okay with their rankings, put me on the list of skating fans who have their biases against this team. sorry not sorry

- while LaLa had one major issue in my eyes,

they did... and then, it's not like everyone here had flawless twizzles... Marjo missed one rotation... that shouldn't be a 6-7 points penalty.... They were dinged for that, but in my biased opinion, as this was their first element of the program and the first couple of the competition, they got very conservative GOE for quite good elements that came after that.

they don't hold the tension throughout, and that makes the program look a bit messy and not as accomplished.

your perception

Overall the PCS are okay in my eyes, even if I think it's highly unfair because it seems the teams behind the athletes are more important here than the athlete's abilities themselves.

not sure what you are saying.

Looking at the scores though, the difference comes mostly from the elements. If we want to talk about the scoring we need to talk about whether the levels and GOE are justified, but honestly I never feel like digging deeper there because everytime I did in ice dance, it was just frustrating.

and frustrating, it shouldn't be

So yeah, we all have our biases as fans.... and this is why it's fun to be on a skating forum because we can embrace those biases

 

[icewhite]

not sure what you are saying.

I mean happy are those that have the IAM team behind them. In my (actually not very biased I think, but very amateurish) view Fear/Gibson are not better as athletes than the Taschlers, but they have much better coaches who know how to make a good program for them.

 

[4everchan]

I mean happy are those that have the IAM team behind them. In my (actually not very biased I think, but very amateurish) view Fear/Gibson are not better as athletes than the Taschlers, but they have much better coaches who know how to make a good program for them.

agreed. Marie-France is an expert on showcasing every one of her teams' strengths. The issue with F/G is that we have had that same acrobatic soup for too many seasons now, which to me means that it's no longer a "specialty" but it's really a "limitation"

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

With all due respect, how can you possibly know any of that is true?

Where did it come from? Did anyone genuinely in the know tell you this? Or is coming from fan speculation/ the gossip side of things? You clearly have strong opinions but that doesn't make them reality.

Personally, i think Fear and Gibson have some very good programs this year. I'm not even a huge fan of them (I thought the past couple of year they played it too safe), but that free is a standout, an inventive and fun crowd pleaser. I also think audience reaction will sway judges in terms of component in the performance component score. So it's clever.

And I'm not a huge Davis and Smolkin fan, but I do get why judges appreciate some of their qualities. You come across as blinded by a dislike for her mother, which is really unfair (even if there was some truth to the alleged shenanigans that got them an Olympic spot).

Oh, please. I'm not even a big fan of any particular one of the ice dance teams at this event. I just have years of knowledge from watching figure skating. Too many years to count. At my age, I have been watching figure skating since well before some of the younger fans here were born. At the same time, I am fully aware that there are some younger fans who may have a greater knowledge of certain technical aspects from training their eyes, studying the rules, and diligently examining protocols and the IJS, such as it is. In some cases, a handful of fans are former competitors with insider knowledge and experience, which is invaluable. But anyone who refuses to recognize or who doesn't want to accept that politics plays a huge role in figure skating ... oh well.

I happen to be a huge aficionado of fs history. I read a lot about the sport's history, which offers great insights into how and why the sport is where it's at today, with the myriad problems it faces.

To answer the specific complaints in your post: I like Fear/Gibson and they are fun to watch. They are charming and entertaining. Their programs this year had some issues. Many people who pointed out weaknesses, did so b/c they support F/G and want to see them continue to do well against the stiff competition at the top this season. So they've made improvements, which is great, and to be expected over the course of the season. That's what Chock & Bates had to do last season. Kudos to F/G. In this field, surely they deserved to win. But the fact Lewis' SS are at higher level than Lilah's, is a fact, not a criticism. Also, stating that I.AM has political influence is a fact, not a criticism!

It has become fashionable to criticize I.AM. I completely admire and respect Marie-France, Patch, and Romain for what they have accomplished. They brought passion, vision, hard work, discipline, and expertise to what they have achieved. With Gabi & Guillaume, they had a talented team who they collaborated with on improving everything. After placing 13th in their debut senior season, in part due to politics because they were little known newbies to seniors (13th was probably not an accurate judgment of their talent, but they were not the first place French team in their first senior season). They worked on better packaging, maturity, an aesthetic vision, and a unique idea for a FD.
No one knew they would end up winning throughout 2014-15 season, and grabbing gold at the World championships. It was a magical season, in part because it was so improbable to move up that quickly under the usual politicized pecking order.

It was exciting, and their coaches were catapulted into the spotlight right along with them. Everyone wanted to work with this Montreal coaching team because of their talent, vision, and rate of success. Now, do you think a knowledge of how to understand and use fs politics to their advantage did not become part of the coaching team's knowledge base and strategic planning? I'm not talking about political corruption. The kind of politics that is a big part of the sport involves connections, communication, savvy p.r., and talking points. Some quid pro quo may also be involved, but not blatant cheating. Anyone who pretends politics doesn't exist might as well pack up and go home.

Politics is not the only thing that matters though. Skill, talent, preparation, and luck are also in the mix. P/C broke through in the season after the 2014 Olympics, and that's also part of what worked in their favor.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Furthermore @throw_triple_flip, in response to your post, you asked about the judges, and proving politics is involved. Most judges are just trying to do their best. They aren't trying to be political, they simply follow the political dictates of the sport. I don't condemn judges, I condemn the system that needs to improve for the benefit of the skaters and the sport. I don't mean get rid of IJS. It just needs to be vastly improved. They have been making changes ever since it was pushed in prematurely in response to the 2002 Olympics. The ISU always responds too late to crises as a result of a scandal. The sport is currently in the midst of another mishandled scandal that's affecting skaters.

There are so many things involved in figure skating on a number of levels. Subjectivity and politics, along with the actual performances and skaters' reputations, all factor into the judging. You are asking for proof of politics in the scoring, which means you don't understand that the very nature of politics is about things that happen under the surface and behind-the -scenes. The very fact of competitors at competitions being viewed on the basis of a pecking order, and not just on their talent, is part of the politics that exists in the sport.

Then you mention Eteri, suggesting that I must not like her. LOL, whether I anyone likes her, is not the point. In fact, I don't know her, so I don't have an opinion of her specifically. I do have criticisms of some of Eteri's training methods. As far as her political influence helping her daughter rise in ice dance as quickly as she has -- that is a FACT, not a CRITICISM. This is also not news. It's pretty obvious, and it has been discussed quite often in the skating community, without my input! Kudos to Eteri for helping her daughter, and good for Gleb and Diana working hard to back up Eteri's faith in them. How do you think Gleb & Diana are now repping Georgia? Do you think that it just happened out of thin air, without benefit of Eteri's political savvy and connections? This is not a critical comment against Eteri, it's a factual observation. This is not a negative either. For Gleb & Diana, it's a huge positive.

You also missed the humor in my initial post. Par for the course. Anyone who can't see that Gleb's skating skills are superior to Diana's, okay. To each their own ability to recognize superb technique and SS. I wouldn't worry about Gleb & Diana. They have sufficient rep at this point to do very well, and they are doing well. They will most likely win gold at Budapest Trophy. Maybe Diana will improve her skills over time. Who knows? It remains to be seen. Of course, she's a decent skater, but she's not as good as her partner.