2023 World Junior Free Dance

[Diana Delafield]

We are saying a lot of the same things. Not everyone fantasizes about instant success moves from junior dance to senior dance but it has happened last year with enough fans for me to notice. I am not making this up It would be very interesting like the videos shown for singles about junior world champions becoming then senior world champions, to do a similar tally for dance... I would say it is even harder than in singles...

Quickly, when I have a glance.. many of the Soviet era skaters who won junior golds had some successes in seniors but with other partners... even representing other countries. Same with most teams actually from more recent years.

The only names of teams that I recognize... and of course, I may have forgotten a few who won both junior worlds and senior worlds are

Dominina-Shabalin and Virtue-Moir.

Bourne and Kraatz won junior Canadians their first year together in 1992 and senior Canadians the next year, the first of ten years as national champions except for one year out with injuries. I don't think they ever had the chance to compete internationally as juniors because they moved up so quickly, and it was ten years before they won Worlds in 2003.

 

[4everchan]

Bourne and Kraatz won junior Canadians their first year together in 1992 and senior Canadians the next year, the first of ten years as national champions except for one year out with injuries. I don't think they ever had the chance to compete internationally as juniors because they moved up so quickly, and it was ten years before they won Worlds in 2003.

sure but we were talking about junior worlds champions becoming world champions... but you know, it is the same on the national level... the fact that bourne an kraatz won so many national titles means that very few junior national champions in dance during these years had an opportunity to win senior nationals... patrick did it too..

 

[Diana Delafield]

sure but we were talking about junior worlds champions becoming world champions... but you know, it is the same on the national level... the fact that bourne an kraatz won so many national titles means that very few junior national champions in dance during these years had an opportunity to win senior nationals... patrick did it too..

Right, of course. I was just musing about "skaters who moved successfully from first-year-as-juniors to first-year-as-seniors". In their case it didn't translate to success on the world ice as seniors for some time, and they'd never competed at junior worlds for comparison. Staying champions for so long is always a thorny problem and I'd have to say I'm on their side. Yes, winning year after year does appear to deprive others of a chance -- I saw that in my own discipline, pairs, during the decade that Irina Rodnina stood apparently immovably on the top step -- but then you have to weigh whether the long-lived champion was just better than the others, beating off challenges year after year which others were free to attempt. Or is the argument going to be that the judges automatically handed the champion the title again just out of habit. I'm not denying that probably happened with some judges, but not all. And not all champions won every single year. I never came even close to the final group internationally (and I'm trying to word this carefully to avoid blowing my pseudonym on this forum), but within our own country my partner and I were fairly evenly matched with one pair for quite a few years and also a third pair for a couple of years until they dropped out with injuries. The medals of all colours were tossed back and forth each year between us all. But did skaters of the calibre of Bourne and Kraatz really discourage anyone else from dreaming of unseating them? Possibly. Or were B&K just better than everyone else in the country for a decade? Also possibly. I've been involved in skating for so long now I have great-granddaughters just starting lessons, and that argument, "should the best in this particular sport politely abdicate after X years and let someone else win, or should they keep going as long as they have the desire and the ability and let others try to pass them" is an old one that really has no solution. Unless you make a skating title a fixed term, like in certain country's politics of course -- and I'm just joking there!

 

[sisinka]

Phebe & James:
I was one of those who criticised the couple for not being mature enough to skate to Vivaldi. I was wrong, it all clicked together at the end of the season. They were great. It was expressive, still gentle, great to watch skate.

During the season Phebe was usually struggling with the technical side of the program (some steps or ending poses were shaky, she was losing balance), she was slower in fast part also....not this time. She coped with both technique and presentation.

Realising what James is going through, it is admirable he was able to perform two great programs, he is real fighter.

This is probably the first time I wish to have 4 medals instead of 3, because what Phebe & James performed - this was medal worth performance.

Hannah & Ye:
Great performance. Although this time Hannah struggled with technique - losing balance in some steps. But her upper body work is superb - great head's movements, gracious arm and wrist's movements, elegant posture. If there would be component mark for upper body work, she would deserve 10. This time I liked Ye's presentation, he was more visible than usually.

Straight line lift - perfect Hannah's position - the lift deserved GOE +4 from all judges in my opinion.

Nadiia & Peter:
For me they were the second best couple during whole season. From this point of view the third place is less than I expected.

Their free dance was difficult to skate from both technical and presentation side. They skated very very well. I personally liked their expression the most at first JGP in Gdansk.

It is their free dance who I would crown as one of the best dances of this season (in both juniors and seniors, the only other junior program would be RD by Mrazeks). This free dance is a piece of art. Big admiration to choreographer who created this. The program has difficulty, many small details which fit to the music, beautiful visualization of violin / playing the violin, attention to creative transitions and it has soul. It would look great even on senior stage.

Katerina & Daniel:
They were the best junior couple during the whole season in my opinion.

The best skating skills, deep edges, gliding across the ice, dynamic and strong presentation, they have it all. Matteo Zanni‘s choreography is underlining everything couple is great at. I like new version of curved lift more than previous one – new position is more elegant.

Katerina‘s upper body posture partially improved, the arm‘s movements got more elegant and smooth, it is visible they spend time working on it.

The best twizzles in juniors and I would say probably in seniors as well. I don‘t understand GOE +3, I think it deserved GOE +5.

 

[sisinka]

SENIOR GRAND PRIX ASSIGNMENTS:

All top four couples are going to seniors next season. I am curious how they will develop in seniors.

This year's Junior World Championships was full of history making moment. Korean couple getting medal...Czech couple winning gold for the first time in history. The last time when Czech dance couple was the best at World stage - it happened at senior World Championships in 1965 - Eva & Pavel Roman (yes, siblings).

Unfortunately these history making moments created troubles as well...

I am watching figure skating for many years and I always remembered that Junior World medalists were skating at two Grand Prix events. But officially Junior World medalists can get one spot only based on current rules.

It led me to idea that the second GP spot was usually given thanks to home GP event.

It means that only Nadiia & Peter have chance to get second spot because they are Canadians and one of GP is held in Canada.

To lose second spot just because Czech Republic and Korea don't have GP held in their country is strange and it creates disadvantage to them in comparison with other couples.

Not to forget Czechs are the ones who set new junior world records this season - twice in RD and one in total score.

I looked at the history of Junior World medalists and their Grand Prix assignments in their first senior season.

Grand Prix of Figure Skating (known as ISU Champions Series from 1995 to 1997) started in 1995. Before the year 2000 more Junior World medalists were competing at one Grand Prix only.

Grand Prix since 2000:

- 47 couples got Junior World medals and went to senior circuit next season

- From all of those 47 couples only one couple experienced the same problem like Czechs and Koreans – Nazarova & Nikitin (bronze medal in 2015) – at their opening senior season they were assigned at Skate America only.

- 28 couples competed at two GP events
- Paul & Islam (silver medal in 2010) got two GP, but had to withdrew from Rostelecom Cup
- Monko & Khaliavin (gold medal in 2011) got two GP, but had to withdrew from both of them due to illness

- Kazakova & Reviya (silver medal in 2020) and Shanaeva & Naryzhnyy (bronze medal in 2020) - their assignments were influenced by COVID situation

- Few couples could get the second spot at home GP but they lost the chance because of inner competition among couples from the same country. In 2013/14 Stepanova & Bukin (gold medal in 2013) finished 8th at Skate Canada and Monko & Khaliavin finished 6th at Trophee Bompard - free spot at Rostelecom Cup was given to Monko & Khaliavin. In 2013/14 Hubbell & Donohue and Aldridge & Eaton (bronze medal in 2013) were probably competing for free spot at opening Grand Prix Skate America, Madison & Zachary won Nebelhorn Trophy in September earning 147.11 points, Aldridge & Eaton finished 6th at Nepela Trophy in October earning 130.49 points - free spot at Skate America went to Madison & Zachary. In 2004/05 Romanovskaya & Grachev (gold medal in 2004) finished last at Skate America, third spot at Cup of Russia was given to Khoklova & Novitski who finished 6th at Skate Canada. Probably the same situation with Lichtman & Copely (bronze medal in 2011) in 2011/12 – they lost chance to get home spot at Skate America when they were beaten by Hubell & Donohue and Cannuscio & Lorello at Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships in August (lost free dance by 12 points to both couples).

- 7 couples split before competing on senior level - Nussear & Forsyth, Gorshkova & Tkachenko, Riazanova & Guerreiro, Edwards & Pang, Khudaberdieva & Nazarov, Nguyen & Kolesnik, D'Alessandro & Waddell.

- Few couples couldn't participate at GP because of injury or illness. I already mentioned Monko & Khaliavin (gold medal in 2011) and Alexandra Paul & Mitchell Islam (silver medal in 2010). Also Grunberg & Rand (silver medal in 2007) had injury reasons.

- GP Assignments were influenced with few couples getting medal at Junior World Championships, then staying in juniors and showing lower results next season or seasons. Lorraine McNamara & Quinn Carpenter and Madeline Edwards & Zhao Kai Pang stayed in juniors after winning Junior World gold medal in 2016 and Junior World bronze medal in 2014...the next season both couples finished on disappointing 7th and 6th place. Lorraine & Quinn got one senior GP spot next season. Madeline & Zhao struggled with injury in following season. Gorshkova & Tkachenko – bronze medal in 2005, 7th place in 2006 and then they split. Ushakova & Nekrasov - bronze medal in 2018, 5th place in 2019, 4th place in 2020.

Final conclusion is that from all Junior World medalists 44 out of 47 couples had a possibility to get two GP spots. 28 couples competed at two GP, 16 couples missed one or both GP thanks to split / injury / staying in juniors and getting worse results / stronger senior dance couple from the same country.

Only one couple didn't get the opportunity for the second GP spot because of country which doesn't held GP - Nazarova & Nikitin.

Two couples can be questioned. Without injury / COVID reasons, I am not sure that Kazakova & Reviya and Grunberg & Rand would get two GP spots, because there is no senior GP in their countries as well.

In the past 23 years this is the first time when two Junior World medalists (gold and silver medalists) have no possibility of getting two GP spots. Not because they wouldn't be good enough. It is because GP is not held in their country. If those two couples would be skating for America / Canada / China / France / Japan, they would get two GP spots without any trouble. This is not right.

I think ISU should react on this.
It is like punishing the couples for skating for country they were born in or have roots in.

How about creating new rule that all Junior World medalists will get two GP spots (if they are age eligible and going to seniors)?

It wouldn't be that problematic to increase number of participants at GP if needed. One GP with 12 couples or two GP with 11 couples. Thanks to warm-up groups the first possibility would be better. Increasing number of participants would secure three home spots for home skaters and second spot for Gold and Silver Junior World medalists (I count with Nadiia & Peter getting home spot).

I hope that Czech and Korean Federations will have a request for getting two GP spots for their couples. Thanks to Junior World Championships results and junior world records they have quite strong arguments in hands to persuade ISU that both couples deserve the same chance like all couples got before them (with exception of Nazarova & Nikitin).

(If Grimm & Savitskiy will continue to progress, they can possibly fight for Junior World medal next season. And then…they will handle the same situation, because Germany doesn’t have GP).

 

[4everchan]

SENIOR GRAND PRIX ASSIGNMENTS:

All top four couples are going to seniors next season. I am curious how they will develop in seniors.

This year's Junior World Championships was full of history making moment. Korean couple getting medal...Czech couple winning gold for the first time in history. The last time when Czech dance couple was the best at World stage - it happened at senior World Championships in 1965 - Eva & Pavel Roman (yes, siblings).

Unfortunately these history making moments created troubles as well...

I am watching figure skating for many years and I always remembered that Junior World medalists were skating at two Grand Prix events. But officially Junior World medalists can get one spot only based on current rules.

It led me to idea that the second GP spot was usually given thanks to home GP event.

It means that only Nadiia & Peter have chance to get second spot because they are Canadians and one of GP is held in Canada.

To lose second spot just because Czech Republic and Korea don't have GP held in their country is strange and it creates disadvantage to them in comparison with other couples.

Not to forget Czechs are the ones who set new junior world records this season - twice in RD and one in total score.

I looked at the history of Junior World medalists and their Grand Prix assignments in their first senior season.

Grand Prix of Figure Skating (known as ISU Champions Series from 1995 to 1997) started in 1995. Before the year 2000 more Junior World medalists were competing at one Grand Prix only.

Grand Prix since 2000:

- 47 couples got Junior World medals and went to senior circuit next season

- From all of those 47 couples only one couple experienced the same problem like Czechs and Koreans – Nazarova & Nikitin (bronze medal in 2015) – at their opening senior season they were assigned at Skate America only.

- 28 couples competed at two GP events
- Paul & Islam (silver medal in 2010) got two GP, but had to withdrew from Rostelecom Cup
- Monko & Khaliavin (gold medal in 2011) got two GP, but had to withdrew from both of them due to illness

- Kazakova & Reviya (silver medal in 2020) and Shanaeva & Naryzhnyy (bronze medal in 2020) - their assignments were influenced by COVID situation

- Few couples could get the second spot at home GP but they lost the chance because of inner competition among couples from the same country. In 2013/14 Stepanova & Bukin (gold medal in 2013) finished 8th at Skate Canada and Monko & Khaliavin finished 6th at Trophee Bompard - free spot at Rostelecom Cup was given to Monko & Khaliavin. In 2013/14 Hubbell & Donohue and Aldridge & Eaton (bronze medal in 2013) were probably competing for free spot at opening Grand Prix Skate America, Madison & Zachary won Nebelhorn Trophy in September earning 147.11 points, Aldridge & Eaton finished 6th at Nepela Trophy in October earning 130.49 points - free spot at Skate America went to Madison & Zachary. In 2004/05 Romanovskaya & Grachev (gold medal in 2004) finished last at Skate America, third spot at Cup of Russia was given to Khoklova & Novitski who finished 6th at Skate Canada. Probably the same situation with Lichtman & Copely (bronze medal in 2011) in 2011/12 – they lost chance to get home spot at Skate America when they were beaten by Hubell & Donohue and Cannuscio & Lorello at Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships in August (lost free dance by 12 points to both couples).

- 7 couples split before competing on senior level - Nussear & Forsyth, Gorshkova & Tkachenko, Riazanova & Guerreiro, Edwards & Pang, Khudaberdieva & Nazarov, Nguyen & Kolesnik, D'Alessandro & Waddell.

- Few couples couldn't participate at GP because of injury or illness. I already mentioned Monko & Khaliavin (gold medal in 2011) and Alexandra Paul & Mitchell Islam (silver medal in 2010). Also Grunberg & Rand (silver medal in 2007) had injury reasons.

- GP Assignments were influenced with few couples getting medal at Junior World Championships, then staying in juniors and showing lower results next season or seasons. Lorraine McNamara & Quinn Carpenter and Madeline Edwards & Zhao Kai Pang stayed in juniors after winning Junior World gold medal in 2016 and Junior World bronze medal in 2014...the next season both couples finished on disappointing 7th and 6th place. Lorraine & Quinn got one senior GP spot next season. Madeline & Zhao struggled with injury in following season. Gorshkova & Tkachenko – bronze medal in 2005, 7th place in 2006 and then they split. Ushakova & Nekrasov - bronze medal in 2018, 5th place in 2019, 4th place in 2020.

Final conclusion is that from all Junior World medalists 44 out of 47 couples had a possibility to get two GP spots. 28 couples competed at two GP, 16 couples missed one or both GP thanks to split / injury / staying in juniors and getting worse results / stronger senior dance couple from the same country.

Only one couple didn't get the opportunity for the second GP spot because of country which doesn't held GP - Nazarova & Nikitin.

Two couples can be questioned. Without injury / COVID reasons, I am not sure that Kazakova & Reviya and Grunberg & Rand would get two GP spots, because there is no senior GP in their countries as well.

In the past 23 years this is the first time when two Junior World medalists (gold and silver medalists) have no possibility of getting two GP spots. Not because they wouldn't be good enough. It is because GP is not held in their country. If those two couples would be skating for America / Canada / China / France / Japan, they would get two GP spots without any trouble. This is not right.

I think ISU should react on this.
It is like punishing the couples for skating for country they were born in or have roots in.

How about creating new rule that all Junior World medalists will get two GP spots (if they are age eligible and going to seniors)?

It wouldn't be that problematic to increase number of participants at GP if needed. One GP with 12 couples or two GP with 11 couples. Thanks to warm-up groups the first possibility would be better. Increasing number of participants would secure three home spots for home skaters and second spot for Gold and Silver Junior World medalists (I count with Nadiia & Peter getting home spot).

I hope that Czech and Korean Federations will have a request for getting two GP spots for their couples. Thanks to Junior World Championships results and junior world records they have quite strong arguments in hands to persuade ISU that both couples deserve the same chance like all couples got before them (with exception of Nazarova & Nikitin).

(If Grimm & Savitskiy will continue to progress, they can possibly fight for Junior World medal next season. And then…they will handle the same situation, because Germany doesn’t have GP).

Thanks for all this data. Interesting read. However, I think that the exceptional case here, simply shows that usually, world junior medalists have no problems getting assignments... so I don't see the ISU making exceptional changes of rules to accommodate the Czech and Korean teams. BTW, there is absolutely no guarantee that Peter and Nadiia will get a host spot in Canada....That field is STACKED ! I believe that there are about 6-7 teams ahead of them for a spot at SCI.

However, I can imagine that Hannah and Ye as well as Phebe and James (if there is a UK GP) could get two events.... Skate Canada could invite Hannah and Ye as they train in Montreal... and it may be attractive for NHK for instance to invite them as they are quite popular with fans and probably not strong enough yet to compete with the Japanese teams.. actually, any GP might be interested in inviting them. Phebe and James could also get a host spot and some other GP if there is indeed a GP in the UK (despite not being medal winners and not being guaranteed a spot).

Lajoie and Lagha said in interview that the first year in senior was very challenging for them. They made a lot of mistakes. Adapting to senior skating was tough.... and it was a deep learning experience for them... In that sense, the Browns also had work cut out for them. I expect it is the same for almost all teams coming out of juniors... and the priority is perhaps to get a hang of competing in challengers with a potential GP, instead of jumping right into senior events of the highest level....
I know it sucks for some teams, but then, it is part of the long learning curve ahead.... BTW, Skate Canada has given host spots to other nations this year... not in dance obviously... but it is quite possible that if UK or Estonia or Finland got a GP, one of these countries may decide to give a spot to one of these very deserving young teams. China could also do the same...

Finally, there is a balancing act... The Czech and Koreans have a very good chance to compete at senior worlds while Peter and Nadia and the Browns for instance will probably not have that chance for quite a while... as a matter of fact, Lajoie and Lagha are staying at home this year... though they are about 7th in the world right now...

 

[sisinka]

Thank you for your post, it is different way of how to look at situation, but I like it. Sorry for late answer, I was busy.

.... BTW, Skate Canada has given host spots to other nations this year... not in dance obviously... but it is quite possible that if UK or Estonia or Finland got a GP, one of these countries may decide to give a spot to one of these very deserving young teams. China could also do the same...

Organizators of the Grand Prix would be glad of course. Having current senior World medalists AND current Junior World medalists (and record makers in case of Czechs and JGP Final champions in case of Canadians) would bring more attention to the event. More attention could influence more people to start with skating, more people would buy tickets, it would be good propaganda of figure skating itself and financially clever step at the same moment.

I think that audience would like to see yesterday's juniors at GP as well (but nobody asks them).

But it is not organizators or audience who choose teams for home spots. It is Figure Skating Federation of that country. And I think they want the best results from their own skaters on the first place.

...BTW, there is absolutely no guarantee that Peter and Nadiia will get a host spot in Canada....That field is STACKED ! I believe that there are about 6-7 teams ahead of them for a spot at SCI.

One more reason to fight for changement in rules.

... and the priority is perhaps to get a hang of competing in challengers with a potential GP, instead of jumping right into senior events of the highest level....

You are absolutely right that skating at Challengers is very useful for getting used to new programs, finding problematic places in program which need more work, seeing how levels are and so on.

But how I mentioned in previous post 44 of 47 couples had chance to compete at two GP. Koreans and Czechs doesn’t have the chance to attend 2 GP, Canadians will probably lose the second spot to another couple.

It is not just about having one or two GP spots. It has much more consequences:

1. Points for Grand Prix placements are higher than in case of Challengers – win is 400 versus 300 points, 4th place 292 versus 219 points, 7th place 213 versus 160 points.

2. Less points (comparing GP versus Challengers) means less points for World Standing.

3. Less points for World Standing means worse starting order in RD.

4. Sooner group in starting order may mean smaller Compenent and GOE score.

5. Smaller score means lower placement.

6. No chance for GP Final even if you would have win a medal at GP.

7. Grand Prix Series is more prestigious competition then Challengers. Nobody asks why you didn’t get the second spot – they automatically tend to think you are not good enough to get two GP spots.

8. Next year GP assignments – you can miss GP spot because of lower position at World Standings.

However, I can imagine that Hannah and Ye as well as Phebe and James (if there is a UK GP) could get two events.... Skate Canada could invite Hannah and Ye as they train in Montreal... and it may be attractive for NHK for instance to invite them as they are quite popular with fans and probably not strong enough yet to compete with the Japanese teams..

I can’t agree with this point…all three Junior World medalists are dangerous for most of home couples.

I guess that America and Canada don't want number 1 and 2 to meet, which means (if possible thanks to World Championships placement) - at Skate Canada - Gilles & Poirier will skate there while Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen will not be there (not to steal points from each other), so home number 2 will go to Lajoie & Lagha, number 3 probably to Lauriaut & Le Gac (smaller chance to Soucisse & Firus or Bashynska & Beaumont). Small trouble with Skate America because Hawayek & Baker are missing at World Championships. Now it depends if Chock & Bates persist on skating at Skating America (or if sponsors want them to be there), probably they do. So Skate America - home number 1 will be Chock & Bates, home number 2 Hawayek & Baker and home number 3 - more couples to choose, but definitely nobody who will be pointed like somebody with chance for GP Final.

Which teoretically means that current Junior World medalists (based on their current skating level – which may change next season of course) are able to challenge in Technical mark (all three Junior medalists) and Skating skills (Czech and Canadians):
- American and Canadian home number 3
- French home number 2 and 3
- Japanese, Finish and Chinese all home numbers

Finally, there is a balancing act... The Czech and Koreans have a very good chance to compete at senior worlds while Peter and Nadia and the Browns for instance will probably not have that chance for quite a while... as a matter of fact, Lajoie and Lagha are staying at home this year... though they are about 7th in the world right now...

Koreans will skate at Worlds and Four Continents next year, I am sure, their way is free.

Mrazeks will compete at Euros, number of spots for next year World Championships is under question, it depends on Taschler’s placement this week. Nadiia & Peter are weaker that top 3 Canadian couples at the moment, but Piper & Paul and Laurence & Nikolaj are 31/31 and 30/34 years old, it would be nice to see them stay but I am not sure they will want to skate for whole Olympic cycle. On the contrary Taschlers are 21/23 years old, they are young enough to stay for 2 Olympic cycles.

----------------------------------------------------------

Overall I still think that the most easy would be to adapt ISU rules and invite each Junior World medalist at two GP, instead of inviting them to one GP and somehow expect that they will get home spot or be given a spot from foreign Figure Skating Federation.
Having Junior World medalists to get two GP spots - the rule is already here but it is unwritten / unofficial and secured only by few countries. It would be nice from ISU to make chances of skaters from ANY country equal.

 

[4everchan]

Thank you for your post, it is different way of how to look at situation, but I like it. Sorry for late answer, I was busy.




Organizators of the Grand Prix would be glad of course. Having current senior World medalists AND current Junior World medalists (and record makers in case of Czechs and JGP Final champions in case of Canadians) would bring more attention to the event. More attention could influence more people to start with skating, more people would buy tickets, it would be good propaganda of figure skating itself and financially clever step at the same moment.

I think that audience would like to see yesterday's juniors at GP as well (but nobody asks them).

But it is not organizators or audience who choose teams for home spots. It is Figure Skating Federation of that country. And I think they want the best results from their own skaters on the first place.




One more reason to fight for changement in rules.




You are absolutely right that skating at Challengers is very useful for getting used to new programs, finding problematic places in program which need more work, seeing how levels are and so on.

But how I mentioned in previous post 44 of 47 couples had chance to compete at two GP. Koreans and Czechs doesn’t have the chance to attend 2 GP, Canadians will probably lose the second spot to another couple.

It is not just about having one or two GP spots. It has much more consequences:

1. Points for Grand Prix placements are higher than in case of Challengers – win is 400 versus 300 points, 4th place 292 versus 219 points, 7th place 213 versus 160 points.

2. Less points (comparing GP versus Challengers) means less points for World Standing.

3. Less points for World Standing means worse starting order in RD.

4. Sooner group in starting order may mean smaller Compenent and GOE score.

5. Smaller score means lower placement.

6. No chance for GP Final even if you would have win a medal at GP.

7. Grand Prix Series is more prestigious competition then Challengers. Nobody asks why you didn’t get the second spot – they automatically tend to think you are not good enough to get two GP spots.

8. Next year GP assignments – you can miss GP spot because of lower position at World Standings.




I can’t agree with this point…all three Junior World medalists are dangerous for most of home couples.

I guess that America and Canada don't want number 1 and 2 to meet, which means (if possible thanks to World Championships placement) - at Skate Canada - Gilles & Poirier will skate there while Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen will not be there (not to steal points from each other), so home number 2 will go to Lajoie & Lagha, number 3 probably to Lauriaut & Le Gac (smaller chance to Soucisse & Firus or Bashynska & Beaumont). Small trouble with Skate America because Hawayek & Baker are missing at World Championships. Now it depends if Chock & Bates persist on skating at Skating America (or if sponsors want them to be there), probably they do. So Skate America - home number 1 will be Chock & Bates, home number 2 Hawayek & Baker and home number 3 - more couples to choose, but definitely nobody who will be pointed like somebody with chance for GP Final.

Which teoretically means that current Junior World medalists (based on their current skating level – which may change next season of course) are able to challenge in Technical mark (all three Junior medalists) and Skating skills (Czech and Canadians):
- American and Canadian home number 3
- French home number 2 and 3
- Japanese, Finish and Chinese all home numbers




Koreans will skate at Worlds and Four Continents next year, I am sure, their way is free.

Mrazeks will compete at Euros, number of spots for next year World Championships is under question, it depends on Taschler’s placement this week. Nadiia & Peter are weaker that top 3 Canadian couples at the moment, but Piper & Paul and Laurence & Nikolaj are 31/31 and 30/34 years old, it would be nice to see them stay but I am not sure they will want to skate for whole Olympic cycle. On the contrary Taschlers are 21/23 years old, they are young enough to stay for 2 Olympic cycles.

----------------------------------------------------------

Overall I still think that the most easy would be to adapt ISU rules and invite each Junior World medalist at two GP, instead of inviting them to one GP and somehow expect that they will get home spot or be given a spot from foreign Figure Skating Federation.
Having Junior World medalists to get two GP spots - the rule is already here but it is unwritten / unofficial and secured only by few countries. It would be nice from ISU to make chances of skaters from ANY country equal.

Thank you for your detailed post. I could argue that to make it even for skaters from all countries, there should be less challengers and jgp in Europe and more in north america... i mean, your points are all valid and true... but there are inequities always... it just depends how one looks at things.

 

[sisinka]

Thank you for your detailed post. I could argue that to make it even for skaters from all countries, there should be less challengers and jgp in Europe and more in north america... i mean, your points are all valid and true... but there are inequities always... it just depends how one looks at things.

Thank You.

You know, I have in mind that....in one moment many people ISU including proudly announce historical moments of getting medals for Korea and Czech Republic, in the next moment couples are kind of "punished" with GP assignments for representing that country. That is why I find this topic important.

ISU changed rules many times in past. Starting with new judging system, using vocals, costum changes. Why not to continue? This changement in rules would be good thing.

I agree with you, there are many other topics which can be interesting to debate. You are right, more Challengers and JGP in North America would be welcomed. Who knows...maybe one day...

 

[CoyoteChris]

Is that why they give out four medals in the USA nationals? I've never understood the pewter medal thing, especially when you see a photo of the podium with the "close-but-not-quite" pewter medallist(s) standing off to one side.

I am with you. I think they should get ride of the plastic medal. There is only one thing worse. At a shoot I go to, there are 600 shooters. If you happen to fall exactly half way down the list with your score, you are awarded "Head of group B" . NOBODY wants this ....