2024-25 Senior Grand Prix Final Men's Free Skate

[niks]

I don't really understand the comments here saying that Illia runs any risk of not winning a competition. He doesn't. Illia will win every single competition he enters, including Nationals (of course!), Worlds, team and individual Olympic Gold Medals, for all the 2026 Olympic cycle, and most probably the 2030 Olympic cycle as well. Powers that be have decided that a long time ago now, right when they started super inflating his PCs to market him as a "complete skater".

Yes, the tech panel enforced all his errors in the FS and so he ended up second in that segment. Good for the tech panel. But they did so only because they could afford to , because the judges panel had massively overscored Illia in the SP (you can find literal 10s in the PCs in that protocol!) and just to extra help out, his theoretical competitors had costly mistakes. So the lead after the SP was so huge that the tech panel could do their job in the FS without jeopardizing in the least Ilia's overall victory. If by any random streak of fate, scores had been closer out of the SP, up to the point where the victory was at risk, the tech panel would simply not have made the calls they did.

So in the spirit of many people here who have called in this thread for at least a bit of plein old honesty Illia will win Nationals, GP stages, GPF, Worlds, 4 Continents and Milan 2026 Olympic Gold Medals, and whatever in between. With whatever layout, with whatever program, even if he falls and under-rotates all his jumps like at this GPF. As long as he enters a competition, he will win it. There is absolutely zero doubt about this.

 

[lariko]

I don't really understand the comments here saying that Illia runs any risk of not winning a competition. He doesn't. Illia will win every single competition he enters, including Nationals (of course!), Worlds, team and individual Olympic Gold Medals, for all the 2026 Olympic cycle, and most probably the 2030 Olympic cycle as well. Powers that be have decided that a long time ago now, right when they started super inflating his PCs to market him as a "complete skater".

Yes, the tech panel enforced all his errors in the FS and so he ended up second in that segment. Good for the tech panel. But they did so only because they could afford to , because the judges panel had massively overscored Illia in the SP (you can find literal 10s in the PCs in that protocol!) and just to extra help out, his theoretical competitors had costly mistakes. So the lead after the SP was so huge that the tech panel could do their job in the FS without jeopardizing in the least Ilia's overall victory. If by any random streak of fate, scores had been closer out of the SP, up to the point where the victory was at risk, the tech panel would simply not have made the calls they did.

So in the spirit of many people here who have called in this thread for at least a bit of plein old honesty Illia will win Nationals, GP stages, GPF, Worlds, 4 Continents and Milan 2026 Olympic Gold Medals, and whatever in between. With whatever layout, with whatever program, even if he falls and under-rotates all his jumps like at this GPF. As long as he enteres a competition, he will win it. There is absolutely zero doubt about this.

I agree, because--and it is a very important because--unlike what his detractors say he and his team plan and scale his programs depending on competition. It is evident in his different approach to every competition he enters. Yes, absolutely, he could sustain an injury or have a really bad program, but that doesn’t make Malinin any different from anyone else in this sport. I hope this doesn't happen, but if it does, I have every confidence Malinin and Team will be able to deal with the consequences.

The most positive thing about his development is that he gets to express himself more and more, both through jumping abundance and choices of programs--which is pretty easy to see.

 

[Jeanie19]

Congrats to Ilia for second place in the free, but I prefer Shaidorov's history-making 3A+4T with positive GOE this season. That kid needs some funding for training.

I am not sure if funding is a problem. Kazakhstan paid for Lilibet to train with Orser and Sofia S with Raf, and Denis with Carroll.
I think Urmanov has done great with training the jumps.
His weakness is speed and spins. Maybe do a summer camp at Florent's camp or Lambiel's.

 

[Kris135]

Ilia is a double gold medalist on the Grand Prix and the best skater in the world. Why on earth would he go to Poland?

What craziness? Do you mean pulling out athletic feats that no other skater has ever done? Do you mean jumping into the air and rotating 4 1/2 times and landing easily on one foot? Do you mean staying fairly injury free, even with all the above? Do you mean being the current World and Grand Prix champion? What exactly do you mean?

I am not talking about his jumps. I am talking about his extremely packed schedule and how the amount of extra skating that he is doing that has nothing to do with his competitive career is killing him. I almost think he tried to go to Poland because he was trying to get out of yet another extra show his agent cooked up. He knew that he needed to train more. Ilia is not stupid. Do I think he would competed, no I think he would have pulled out at the last minute but he would have found a rink there and would have tried to get a week of uninterrupted training to prepare for the GPF. Somebody for Ilia sake needs to rein in Ari his agent to stop from over booking him. What took place on the ice yesterday was a direct result of a lack of preparation for this event. Ilia usually does gets his jumps all way around and can get through a 4 minute program without much of a problem. He looked exhausted and overwhelmed and he looked a bit lost during sections of his program that had just been changed recently. He needed to take care of that during the month November not to fly back to take part in Ari latest vanity project. That has to stop for his sake. He is one of the greatest skaters I have ever seen and I have seen a lot of skaters in my life. Ilia just plain flies towards the heavens when he jumps. He could have a career that could be one of the greatest we have ever seen. He could truly change this sport in ways that we can not even imagine yet. But it will mean nothing if he has a career ending injury. The extra skating that he has been all but forced to take on is in increasing the risks of that injury happening. I am looking his long term well being when I say that the extreme amount of extra skating not related to defending his world title needs to stop. He went into last year's world's in such pain that I am shocked that he actually managed to do what he did, but it should not be a constant issue that he has to deal with. Just cancel or reschedule all the extra skating after Worlds so he be fully prepared for Worlds please.

 

[noskates]

I was not comparing Elvis and Ilia in any other way than neither was the most graceful, smoothest skater and yet they still won/are winning. And as far as the judging - I agree that in some cases the judges at the GPF didn't miss a beat - for SOME skaters. There should always be judges that are that particular in following the rules but make it for all skaters. Not just the top skaters in the field.

 

[Arigato]

I am not sure if funding is a problem.

It has been. He said so. The point of my post was to help out a kid with potential. We need more funding in this sport.

 

[TontoK]

The most positive thing about his development is that he gets to express himself more and more, both through jumping abundance and choices of programs--which is pretty easy to see.

To me, this is important. I've been pretty honest that I don't enjoy the musical selections this year. It's just not the type of music that I enjoy.

But I can tell who DOES like that music. Ilia Malinin. I see his authentic self. He connects with his music, especially the SP. I just saw his exhibition program at GPF. That music does not suit me either (droning emo), but it's obvious that he likes it.

I hope his team explores more musical styles, because too much of a good thing is still too much (see Fear/Gibson for comparison). If there's not a classical selection he likes, that's OK, but there's a lot more out there that could be original and young. Now I certainly don't want him skating a program he doesn't like - there's plenty of paint-by-numbers skating already, we don't need more. I'm just hoping for some variety.

Off topic, but not really: When I drive with my son, my ears bleed from his music, so maybe I'm just an old fart and this is a generational issue.

 

[TontoK]

I don't really understand the comments here saying that Illia runs any risk of not winning a competition. He doesn't. Illia will win every single competition he enters, including Nationals (of course!), Worlds, team and individual Olympic Gold Medals, for all the 2026 Olympic cycle, and most probably the 2030 Olympic cycle as well. Powers that be have decided that a long time ago now, right when they started super inflating his PCs to market him as a "complete skater".

Yes, the tech panel enforced all his errors in the FS and so he ended up second in that segment. Good for the tech panel. But they did so only because they could afford to , because the judges panel had massively overscored Illia in the SP (you can find literal 10s in the PCs in that protocol!) and just to extra help out, his theoretical competitors had costly mistakes. So the lead after the SP was so huge that the tech panel could do their job in the FS without jeopardizing in the least Ilia's overall victory. If by any random streak of fate, scores had been closer out of the SP, up to the point where the victory was at risk, the tech panel would simply not have made the calls they did.

So in the spirit of many people here who have called in this thread for at least a bit of plein old honesty Illia will win Nationals, GP stages, GPF, Worlds, 4 Continents and Milan 2026 Olympic Gold Medals, and whatever in between. With whatever layout, with whatever program, even if he falls and under-rotates all his jumps like at this GPF. As long as he enters a competition, he will win it. There is absolutely zero doubt about this.

This reads as the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist.

Ilia Malinin is not invincible. He lost a GP event to Adam last season. His last two US Nats have been very poor performances - he defeated "quadless" Jason Brown by about 10 points each time out - and Jason made mistakes in both of those. He almost certainly would have lost this competition if Yuma had not had an uncharacteristic fall in the SP on his best jump - compounded by popping that same jump in the FP.

Here is a more realistic view: His Base Value is the best in the world. His component score is also high. If he performs flawlessly - and he hasn't done that this season - then he's unbeatable. If he makes mistakes and leaves the door open (as he usually does to a greater or lesser extent), others can win if they deliver. Adam did this last year at GP France. If he makes mistakes and others make mistakes, he'll still probably win. This is the case with Jason at US Nationals and to Yuma here.

 

[Arigato]

That's why I say that there is no real lesson to be learned. Sometimes the big jumper ends up with the most points, sometimes the skater with other skills does.

Let's try the visual version of the point I was making. There is no either/or. This is a sport, it has a scoring system. Nowhere does it read "optional" in the diagram. The lesson for skaters is simply to become well-rounded to ensure both TES and PCS are optimized.

 

[cailuj365]

I don't really understand the comments here saying that Illia runs any risk of not winning a competition. He doesn't. Illia will win every single competition he enters, including Nationals (of course!), Worlds, team and individual Olympic Gold Medals, for all the 2026 Olympic cycle, and most probably the 2030 Olympic cycle as well. Powers that be have decided that a long time ago now, right when they started super inflating his PCs to market him as a "complete skater".

Yes, the tech panel enforced all his errors in the FS and so he ended up second in that segment. Good for the tech panel. But they did so only because they could afford to , because the judges panel had massively overscored Illia in the SP (you can find literal 10s in the PCs in that protocol!) and just to extra help out, his theoretical competitors had costly mistakes. So the lead after the SP was so huge that the tech panel could do their job in the FS without jeopardizing in the least Ilia's overall victory. If by any random streak of fate, scores had been closer out of the SP, up to the point where the victory was at risk, the tech panel would simply not have made the calls they did.

So in the spirit of many people here who have called in this thread for at least a bit of plein old honesty Illia will win Nationals, GP stages, GPF, Worlds, 4 Continents and Milan 2026 Olympic Gold Medals, and whatever in between. With whatever layout, with whatever program, even if he falls and under-rotates all his jumps like at this GPF. As long as he enters a competition, he will win it. There is absolutely zero doubt about this.

When I want true, manufactured drama and giving out random deductions and penalties from "the powers that be" to favor their preferred competitors, I watch Formula 1.

For Yuma's sake, I do not agree with what you say. It's such a pessimistic view about the entire judging system that I wouldn't even bother watching if it were THIS fixed that Yuma would come out behind Ilia even if Ilia were to fall five times. Yuma CAN win, but he needs to deliver too, and the reality is that Yuma also did not do enough when Ilia was sloppy. I also don't think it serves figure skating well for TPTB to dole their world champion a UR and q on every single jumping pass even if they were going to guarantee his win, because it would have been much better from a marketing and media perspective to give their world champion a win by a larger margin and show how "quadgod" like he is.

I am not talking about his jumps. I am talking about his extremely packed schedule and how the amount of extra skating that he is doing that has nothing to do with his competitive career is killing him. I almost think he tried to go to Poland because he was trying to get out of yet another extra show his agent cooked up. He knew that he needed to train more. Ilia is not stupid. Do I think he would competed, no I think he would have pulled out at the last minute but he would have found a rink there and would have tried to get a week of uninterrupted training to prepare for the GPF. Somebody for Ilia sake needs to rein in Ari his agent to stop from over booking him. What took place on the ice yesterday was a direct result of a lack of preparation for this event. Ilia usually does gets his jumps all way around and can get through a 4 minute program without much of a problem. He looked exhausted and overwhelmed and he looked a bit lost during sections of his program that had just been changed recently. He needed to take care of that during the month November not to fly back to take part in Ari latest vanity project. That has to stop for his sake. He is one of the greatest skaters I have ever seen and I have seen a lot of skaters in my life. Ilia just plain flies towards the heavens when he jumps. He could have a career that could be one of the greatest we have ever seen. He could truly change this sport in ways that we can not even imagine yet. But it will mean nothing if he has a career ending injury. The extra skating that he has been all but forced to take on is in increasing the risks of that injury happening. I am looking his long term well being when I say that the extreme amount of extra skating not related to defending his world title needs to stop. He went into last year's world's in such pain that I am shocked that he actually managed to do what he did, but it should not be a constant issue that he has to deal with. Just cancel or reschedule all the extra skating after Worlds so he be fully prepared for Worlds please.

I honestly think you need to chill a bit. I know you're coming from a place of concern, but you are really twisting things around in your head. Direct result of lack of preparation? The guy had like 3+ weeks at home before coming to Grenoble. I have no idea what "vanity project" you're referring to other than the Xtreme Ice show that was literally 20 minutes away from Ilia's house. There was no traveling involved for this. He drives 20 minutes to skate a 3 min watered-down run through of his SP. I'm sure that was very taxing for him. But yes, let's say he "tried to go to Poland" instead to escape that. Come on. I seriously think the whole Warsaw Cup CS entry was an ISU website error.

 

[el henry]

Figure skating is not just BV. Nor should it be.

As our friend @Mathman has said, lots of other sports do jumping better. If it's only jumps, it is to many people (including me) boring and . Jumps are not what make figure skating a sport, and other than die hards, no one fifty years from now will care about the Fizzy Squiggles rotations and the SuperSized combos. They won't even remember or care about scores.

They will remember how a skater made them feel. For me, Ilia is at his best when he makes me feel that he likes the program, that he's having a grand old time showing us what he can do, that he interprets the music and that he spins and steps and does all those other things that make figure skating unique and the sport that it is.

Did he do that in this FS to the best of his ability? For me, no.

Will I always prefer watching Jason or Kevin? Sure, but that doesn't make me a hater or a detractor or whatever. And it doesn't mean I can't critique Ilia. Skating of course, and never personality. Now that's a hater....

 

[Mathman]

I don't really understand the comments here saying that Ilia runs any risk of not winning a competition. He doesn't.

Math is math. The reason that Ilia favored to win in any competition that he enters is numbers. His jump layout in the LP adds up to 95 points in jumping pass base vakue.That gives him a head atart over anyone else before the askating even begins.

Well, anything can happen. In this event (the GP Final LP) he made so many flubs that he didn't win the segment. Still. in a marathon the athlete that has a five mile head start over the field is going to win a lot of races.

 

[Arigato]

I honestly think you need to chill a bit.

I can see that printed on the back of a hoodie.

 

[cailuj365]

I actually thought Ilia looked really into his FS program yesterday. It was a fight for everything technically, but I thought he was more expressive here than in Skate America or Canada. Idk how I feel about the costume. This one is more gothic, but I miss the bloody glove and sleeve.

 

[el henry]

I actually thought Ilia looked really into his FS program yesterday. It was a fight for everything technically, but I thought he was more expressive here than in Skate America or Canada. Idk how I feel about the costume. This one is more gothic, but I miss the bloody glove and sleeve.

I can see that point, I think I was comparing the performance to the SP. Maybe because he felt he didn't have to shove every FizzySquiggle jump into the SP

I love unusual or bizarre costumes, Since I am a huge Anthony Paradis fan, Ilia's "blood" in the previous costume was mild by comparison.

 

[Mathman]

As our friend @Mathman has said, lots of other sports do jumping better.

Here is my perspective. I looked up "skating" in the dictionary: "The activity of gliding on ice skates as a sport or pastime."

I general, I believe that any activity or pastime errs when it drifts too far away from it's core definition. I feel the same way about music. What is required of music is that it delight the ear. Does it also, as an extra add-on, stir the emotions, soothe the savage breast, engage the intellect? OK.

 

[lariko]

To me, this is important. I've been pretty honest that I don't enjoy the musical selections this year. It's just not the type of music that I enjoy.

But I can tell who DOES like that music. Ilia Malinin. I see his authentic self. He connects with his music, especially the SP. I just saw his exhibition program at GPF. That music does not suit me either (droning emo), but it's obvious that he likes it.

I hope his team explores more musical styles, because too much of a good thing is still too much (see Fear/Gibson for comparison). If there's not a classical selection he likes, that's OK, but there's a lot more out there that could be original and young. Now I certainly don't want him skating a program he doesn't like - there's plenty of paint-by-numbers skating already, we don't need more. I'm just hoping for some variety.

Off topic, but not really: When I drive with my son, my ears bleed from his music, so maybe I'm just an old fart and this is a generational issue.

Those are two different styles, as far as I know. One is rap, another is an emo pop song? Basically, all of his programing is for modern music, and hey, at least he doesn't play bingo with warhorses like Kagiyama year after year. I mean, hey, for all I know Ilia decides we need yet another Ave Maria, Rain Up Yours, or Tango. He did go for something more lyrical in the exhibition, so you had 3 very different moods from him. Angry young man rap, emo pop with the hair dangling and a lyrical ballad. As with everything else, he/his team think about these things.

Edit: he did malaguenia one season, so had an instrumental classic

 

[Skating91]

Good to see some more realistic marks for Ilia after the judges lost their minds in the short program handing out 10's and 9.75's to him. Extraordinary. Most of the program was skated on two feet, maybe a little more polished than Shaidorov for presentation and composition.

I said after the short the Ilia's jumps are looking a little heavy and they certainly were in the free skate. Maybe a little complacency has crept in, but that's only natural when someone can cheat on the landings of 7/7 jumping elements and still comfortably win gold.

Also he got one q in the short, but should have got one on the 4F as well but the judges over looked it. So in two programs 9/10 jumping elements had cheated landings he only landed a triple axel clean. Is this what the sport has become? I don't think I've ever seen anything like this before where someone cheated on so many jumps but still comfortably won.

Poor Misha. I like how the crowd reacted to his score.

Kagiyama will be kicking himself he didn't win gold, Ilia left the door open.

 

[niks]

This reads as the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist.

Figure skating scores are intrinsically subjective and have always been and will always be (minus an unforeseen miracle) politically and "reputational" motivated. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is reality. And I honestly don't think it will come as a shock to anyone, unless they are very new to following figure skating (like having started yesterday ) or extremely naive. In Illia's specific case, he has an unyielding push from ISU and US Fed behind him that clearly translates into heavy overscoring. Again, no conspiracy, just reality in plein sight for everyone to see. If you still don't believe it, just go have a look into ISU media and see how desperately they try everything possible to promote Illia as figure skating's best thing ever.

For Yuma's sake, I do not agree with what you say. It's such a pessimistic view about the entire judging system that I wouldn't even bother watching if it were THIS fixed that Yuma would come out behind Ilia even if Ilia were to fall five times. Yuma CAN win, but he needs to deliver too, and the reality is that Yuma also did not do enough when Ilia was sloppy.

Of course, that's why I mentioned that in addition to all the political push Illia beneficiates from, as an "extra help", it so happens that his theoretical competitors simultaneously underperform. Sadly, I do believe that even if they were to have perfect skates, the political push would still prevail And honestly, if skater X has to skate lights out and Illia has to fall 5 times just so skater X has a remote chance of winning an event, well I think that kind of actually proves the point. I don't know how truly invested you're in Yuma's result at Worlds, but I would focus my hopes in a silver medal for him, which is still not a given but at least somewhat realistic (please don't take this to be rude, I hesitated to write it as of course whatever hopes you have are up to you, it's just that I have been there for other skaters and it has been hard seeing that hopes never materialized, so I rather be realistic now )

I also don't think it serves figure skating well for TPTB to dole their world champion a UR and q on every single jumping pass even if they were going to guarantee his win, because it would have been much better from a marketing and media perspective to give their world champion a win by a larger margin and show how "quadgod" like he is.

I don't think of course that the ISU / US Fed had anything to do with the tech calls. As I mentioned, I believe the individual persons in the tech panel felt they had a safe margin that afforded them to do their job properly, and took their chance. Just so they could have a clean conscience and be able to say their had indeed acted accordingly to high profesional standards. This may be important to them individually, and in this case, they could do it knowing that Illia would still win overall (and so the backlash from ISU / US Fed would be lower... though if you see some reactions around internet, I'm not sure it was such a safe bet )

 

[Mathman]

I believe the individual persons in the tech panel felt

This is the very definition of "conspiracy theorizing." Speculating on what someone might have felt, then running with that "belief" as if it were fact.