Replay Lounge 2025 GP de France
- Thread starter gsk8
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Replay Lounge
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- Jul 26, 2003
Cizeron's lifts have never been very good. Throwing huge GOEs at relatively simply lifts, done gliding on two feet or rotating slowly in place, or while throwing snow from his skates while doing just a turn or two is just wrong, especially throwing high GOE for the FD serpentine lift, which was only level 3.)
And throwing PCS 9.5s at an RD routine with a fall on a choreo stunt is equally wrong, as is 10s for a same old Cizeron narrow range of programs - a droning almost beat-less theme, (to showcase his beautiful glide, while hiding his insensitivity to the beat) this time from a movie about the toxic relationships between a very obese man and his relatives (meanwhile fans going on about how well they expressed the intent & nuance of the music, which they think is about blue whales rather than about a fat man. They are deceived by the titles of the songs.)
In comparison, in singles, Ilia, (who similarly has real skills others don't) had to work to get better spin scores. And although people complain about his PCS, nobody is chucking 10's at him. He wants to improve, so he creates his Raspberry entry into a spin combination, and does a Surya Bonaly back flip with a one foot landing, into three turns (brilliant). And he has a miss by doing voiceovers (when you try to improve , some things won't work...and he is only 20). I respect his effort to be better.
Cizeron has no such incentive. Worse, his scores on lifts inspire other teams to do the least possible thing to get level 4 and expect that your other areas of excellence will just magically inflate your lift scores. And the droning beat- less music has been adopted by other teams who also can't manage to hit a fast beat without a metronome pinned to their costumes. I had hoped he would learn or thing or two from Laurence, but no such luck. In fact, I hope he will retire again, after he & Laurence win the Olympics, because I find his FD programs in his style very boring, and I hate the effect on other dancers.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2020
Or may I just reverse your question and ask why the hatred, vitriol and ill wishes towards the former greats and legends of the sport from some fans of this new boy?
For if you go through the thread just like I have done right now you will see it was some Ilia Malinin fan who dragged Yuzuru Hanyu (and Plushenko) into this discussion which started off a bit of comparative study and prophecy attempts, lol.
The way I see it is that this huge wave of criticism towards Malinin over the weekend, happening mainly in the competition threads, is all about him, and has nothing to do with Yuzuru Hanyu, and does not even come mostly from Yuzuru fans, and I have no idea why he is being dragged into this by IM's fans, including, sorry, by your post. Though I understand Yuzu and others are brought for comparisons where people discuss Ilia's PCS and his fandom's claim to his great artistry which many people see lacking . It just happens that the two fandoms rarely overlap, as the two skaters with their different skating styles and personalities appeal to different people. And additionally because Ilia, while claiming in public to be a huge fan, chose to disrespect Yuzu on his social media which plainly speaking was as much arrogant as stupid in the long run. But I repeat, the main body of Malinin criticism does not come from Yuzuru fans but from many various corners, not any one fandom, and trying to portray it this way is simply misrepresenting it,
I also think that Ilia and some of his fans imagined that 4A will make it for him not only on the scoring board and that Ilia will take Yuzuru's place in the hearts of the global audiences. But nothing of the sort happened. Ilia has his many fans of course, but neither 4A, nor the world medals, nor the PR push did lift him to the global stardom. Hence a bit of frustration why in his case medals are not followed by love.
And as for Yuzuru, he is still as beloved as ever, the most beloved skater on the planet, which some people seem to find frustrating, it seems. And, yes, I invite them to shake it off and instead share our joy and pride in this most successful competitive and pro career which still makes Yuzuru a model for younger generations to take inspiration from. And the young ones do it all the time, just read some of their interviews.
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Unpopular opinion: Italians were not dropped by judges. They were brought back to reality.
The last time they got such a low score for RD was in 2018 and frankly speaking they skated like they did in 2018.
They are not a top team and have never been. Top teams reinvent, go an extra mile. Tessa and Scott left dozens of lifts that other teams are using now. Even the Italians themselves. Piper and Paul have a pattern named after them. Papadakis and Cizeron made the whole field copy their dances for years. But what did the Italians leave after them?
Ask yourself honestly: is there any program from G/F that you would like to re-watch on a rainy day? That was ground-breaking? Is there anything that they brought to this sport?
The only reason they received 200+ scores is because they were the only European team after P/C that was left for this cycle, so the judges had to dilute somehow the North American podiums. Now with the Brits, Lithuanians, other French teams, Georgians, and Spaniards, there is no such need.
The last time they got such a low score for RD was in 2018 and frankly speaking they skated like they did in 2018.
They are not a top team and have never been. Top teams reinvent, go an extra mile. Tessa and Scott left dozens of lifts that other teams are using now. Even the Italians themselves. Piper and Paul have a pattern named after them. Papadakis and Cizeron made the whole field copy their dances for years. But what did the Italians leave after them?
Ask yourself honestly: is there any program from G/F that you would like to re-watch on a rainy day? That was ground-breaking? Is there anything that they brought to this sport?
The only reason they received 200+ scores is because they were the only European team after P/C that was left for this cycle, so the judges had to dilute somehow the North American podiums. Now with the Brits, Lithuanians, other French teams, Georgians, and Spaniards, there is no such need.
gum chewing aside - i'd like your opinion of the kiss and cry segment with deanna stellato following the long program. is she her worst critic or possibly very hard on everyone? she rarely looks pleased. i realize she gets praise for stamina and resilience - but she also gives me vibes of my all time favotite Ksenia Stolbova (if looks could kill)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksenia_Stolbova
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2025
And right Brit, Lithuanian and Georgian judges give G/F laughing low points
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Respectfully, strongly, disagree. The Italians are incredibly technically strong ice dancers. You don't like their programs? Okay, no problem we all like different things. I don't particularly like Ilya's programs but his technical mastery is clear. The Italians are truly masters of the basics of ice dance. Their skating skills, lifts, partnering..etc... were so much better than all the other teams here except Laurence and Cizeron who have great basic skating but even they don't have the same partnering skills or complicated well performed lifts. So, yes, they were dropped by the judges. The GOE they got was so low compared to what they put on the ice. And, anyone with any knowledge of the sport is also aware of how weak the French's lifts are.... how their twizzles were far apart and how the distance between the partners varied through the sequence. In most couples, this would mean +0/+1 GOE. But, not for the French. This type of judging is bad for the sport.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2012
I suppose this is not going to make me popular but I was totally mesmerised by Laurence's and Cizeron's Free Dance, whether it's about a whale or not. I really felt this should get the win, much as I liked Lilah and Lewis' FD. I don't care whether the lifts are too simple because it all was so lovely together. I enjoyed the programme very much. I've still got to watch the Men as I have just returned from a vacation.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2024
She is her own worst critic. Especially when major errors like in the free happen. After the short she looked quite pleased I think.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
No one ever posts cruel attacks on Yuzuru Hanyu. It is not pathological or obsessive hero-worship to say that Malinin is a fine skater who maybe one day will be considered among the admirable athletes of the sport.
Who knows? Maybe some day it will be permissible to say that Nathan Chen was a good skater. (I know, I know -- dream on.)
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
Yes, she rarely looks pleased in the K & C, although she is a little better in her partnership with Max. When she was skating with Nate Bartholomay, she often had that "if looks could kill" look. Seems to me someone also posted an old, old K & C from when she was a singles skater, and even in that video clip, she looked "displeased". I think she expects a lot from herself and is a perfectionist. I admire her!
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Nathan Chen was a fabulous all-around skater.
There. You got your wish. And, it's sincere.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
Just watched Ilia's FS. Whether I do or don't like his costume, hair, music choice, etc., he is a prodigious jumper. His 3-jump sequence that started with a 4Lz was amazing. I have seen him live 5 times, and he is fun and exciting to watch in person.
I would lose the voiceovers. Never a fan of voiceovers, and it always makes me think of the line "This is not a book report, it's a skating program." Not sure if that's supposed to be cool? edgy? Meh.
I would lose the voiceovers. Never a fan of voiceovers, and it always makes me think of the line "This is not a book report, it's a skating program." Not sure if that's supposed to be cool? edgy? Meh.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
Stockholm Worlds 2021, Nathan's Philip Glass FS. AMAZING.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
Actually, it already is! Thanks to the backlash against Malinin, because well, Chen is the only comparable skater in terms of technical content and stability, so now praising Chen is all good to make a favorable comparison to Malinin. Go, Chen! You finally made it!
I mean, people are not even looking at Ilia's continuing progress, that he skates with more ease, expresses easier, reaches outward, does not telegraph the hardest jumps, performs even backflip with a flow in and out, shows classic elements like Ina Bauer and spins that no longer look labored. Basically nothing in his programs in France looked labored, despite performing 7 quads in two programs. They were integrated in the program. He transitioned. He held better speed. He emoted. He built up. His costumes weren't plain but not outlandish. He didn't sound arrogant during the conference, sharing that he appreciates his cats as emotional support (I am sure that will be the next strike against him. Cats? He's too cold) and actually explaining what he tried to express in his program. No matter how hard it is, one must work on one self to be a better versions of oneself...
Malinin is fine and growing. People are petty. Internet is toxic.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2023
This might be like heresy to some, but I prefer Fournier Beaudry and
Cizeron together to either of their previous partnerships. Though I will admit my favourite free dance was by the team that placed last!
I'm a bit baffled by all the hoo hah over the Italian team's placement here. Their big advantage over other teams is not so great anymore.
I can't wait for the Pairs competition in the next grand prix. I'm so curious how Sui and Han will measure up against the top teams here.
The women were amazing. Rion Sumiyoshi's bronze score here is very close to Mone Chiba's personal best (and her triples look rotated). The race for those Japanese Olympic spots gets more interesting..
Cizeron together to either of their previous partnerships. Though I will admit my favourite free dance was by the team that placed last!
I'm a bit baffled by all the hoo hah over the Italian team's placement here. Their big advantage over other teams is not so great anymore.
I can't wait for the Pairs competition in the next grand prix. I'm so curious how Sui and Han will measure up against the top teams here.
The women were amazing. Rion Sumiyoshi's bronze score here is very close to Mone Chiba's personal best (and her triples look rotated). The race for those Japanese Olympic spots gets more interesting..
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- Joined
- Sep 7, 2023
I don't think Ilia Mainin can quite pull off the whole pretentious artist thing. Those voiceovers were a bit daft.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
I'm not a fan of voiceovers in general. But what kind of program would please you? What recommendation do you have for him?
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
One interesting tidbit from this weekend is that Ilia has some new jump that he plans to introduce after the Olympic season, but he doesn't want to risk injury this season, so he's holding off.
What I find interesting is not that he can add to the arsenal (a quint? a 4-4 combo?) but that he's not planning to be a one Olympics kind of skater. He intends to continue. I've suspected this would be the case, but I think this is the first time I've heard commitment out of his own mouth.
What I find interesting is not that he can add to the arsenal (a quint? a 4-4 combo?) but that he's not planning to be a one Olympics kind of skater. He intends to continue. I've suspected this would be the case, but I think this is the first time I've heard commitment out of his own mouth.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
Sorry for going out of topic and general (for the rest, I have no valid opinion to give on Ice Dance anyway).
Even if a song is strongly associated with a movie and a particular meaning, I believe that it remains the freedom of a skater or a team or any interpreter in fact, to stick to the words, or to a general impression, or in fact to interpret it in any convincing way.
I may be called a "purist" whenever Chopin is at stake, yet during the second round of the ongoing Chopin Competition in Warsaw (sometimes dubbed the Olympics of Piano but it's misleading), a Korean pianist, Hyuk Lee, played the (Fifth) Polonaise in F sharp minor op.44 in a coherent and not empty way, without what is considered (out of all witnesses' account, including Chopin himself if I remember correctly) the chief element in the piece, a sense of painful labour (let alone the title time has given it, Tragic, which I have never taken for mine). It was really convincing, and why not, even at the Chopin Competition (I didn't manage a direct link, but one just has to click, sometimes twice, on the corresponding video):
International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition
Official website of the International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition
These two candidates had different but excellent interpretations reflecting the traditional feeling of this Polonaise:
International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition
Official website of the International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition
International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition
Official website of the International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition
