Replay Lounge 2025 GP Finlandia Trophy

[Greengemmonster]

Good people can you tell me why Yuma is tilting mid rotation sometimes? I adore him and his programs but it’s killing me with nervousness when he tilts in the air!!!

 

[4everchan]

My brain wouldn't let me sleep until I came back to say this: I dearly hope Alisa would never switch from pairs, because we would lose her absolutely gorgeous lift positions and throw landings. I don't thing she would anyway. And I think Misha is just an excellent pairs partner. Not showy, but this great presence and excellent pairs elements. The way he throws Alisa, for instance, matters.

I wasn't really suggesting she'd switch I was simply recognizing her great posture and lines on the ice. Regarding Misha, he may grow on me but for now, sorry, I am not seeing what you are seeing. It's all good.

 

[TT_Fin]

Alisa Efimova ja Marina Shirshova eivät luistele äidin ja tyttären rooleista

Valmentaja Marina Shirshova ja hänen tyttärensä Alisa Efimova huolehtivat siitä, että aikaa on aina myös äidin ja tyttären suhteelle.

www.skatingfinland.fi

Sorry I cannot make better link with ny cell phone. But from the link above is in Finnish an article about Alisa and her mother, who is also Iida Karhunen's coach, written some years ago when Alisa was representing Germany. Google translator makes quite good job from Finnish to English.

 

[reneerose]

Good people can you tell me why Yuma is tilting mid rotation sometimes? I adore him and his programs but it’s killing me with nervousness when he tilts in the air!!!

I think it's mentally not being focused about where he should be in the air (he really should have good muscle memory from practice repetitions) or hurrying a bit (timing issue) in positioning that causes the tilts that lead to the falls or step outs....I know I'm probably not good at explaining it as a layperson...I can only wonder what Carolina and his Dad say to him about it...

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Mone Chiba has the best Long Program of the season but it makes me sad how much is missing still. She could be magical if there was more emphasis placed on truly expressing the music. Look at Sasha Cohen's R+J at the Olympics and how the program is allowed to breathe and emote midway through: the extension and slow glide forward after the layback, the delicacy of her arms that move as if she is trying to part the clouds, the way she stands at center ice and plucks a flower from the air, her sublime facial expressions. The amount of intimacy and longing and fated tragedy expressed in those moments is what skating NEEDS, and nobody is trying to do this anymore.

It's more than just that section of choreography, there are so many details that aren't as good. Look at Cohen's upward leg kick after her 3S. Chiba also does this in her program after her 3S and it's not as extended and impactful. It's in Chiba's program simply to show some kind of "extra movement", whereas in Cohen's program it's a stunning moment, a cinematic declaration, because of the shape she creates and how it goes with the music AND the overall choreographic concept of the whole program, doing it after the last jump at the end of the program, bringing to mind Juliet suddenly awaking, right before dying.

Similarly, Cohen's spins flow with the music better, the footwork sequence has a more clear shape and purpose, and of course the stunning spiral sequence. Chiba's spiral in her program, during the emotional climax of the music, is a bit clunky getting into the initial position, isn't held for especially long, and has a BENT KNEE. Yet because she's at least doing a spiral in that moment and it's not hideous, we're supposed to feel like something special is happening. In actuality it's merely the baseline of what a decent program should have and is quite far from being masterpiece level. The judging for a long time now has absolutely failed to correctly score the artistic merit of programs, and when you pair that with the horribly flawed rules, it turns programs into artificial collections of random turns/movements that don't add up to anything special, and the skaters are visibly focusing on those things while competing, instead of being IN the performance and caring about how to make it as attractive and emotional as possible.

Chiba's soft, fast glide and overall nice qualities allow her to get through the convoluted footwork sequence more elegantly than most other people, and she's able to create little moments of beauty in the program, but those moments are just glimmers of greatness, rather than actual greatness itself. Yet we cling to those moments and want her to win, because she's producing more of them than anyone else right now. In the current field, she displays the most amount of freedom and radiance. She's the least bogged down by the artifice of what skating has become.

I agree that Mone Chiba's Free Skating isn't perfect "yet" interpretation-wise; but what I'm wondering at, is how it can be that ready at all with the ugly cuts in it; yet she manages to make it one! Her interpretation is already awesome in spite of that sort of musical soup on which excelled another Sendai-born skater before her. Her scores reflect it, by the way. (And as I'm at it, Amber Glenn wasn't overscored in Components either, in spite of being American; she had very lenient jump calls but on the Components, nil; and it's not just Finlandia judges, as in both Mone Chiba's and Amber Glenn's previous Grand Prix, their American competitors were awarded higher Components, while deserving less; I'm saying overall, because I also know that a judge nowadays will give an overall Component score and share it randomly but narrowly between the three Component categories.)
As to Sasha Cohen, while I agree that she gave us masterpieces of upper body interpretation, let's not forget her legs, her flat-edged, often double-footed skating which made the rest easier.
Speaking of deep edges, I don't know if in Grades of Execution it counts as a creative entry or steps, or if it doesn't, or if it's up to the judge's decision, but I looove her beautiful nearly spiral entrance into Triple Axel (Short Program), I think it deserves being counted as a creative entry.
And as I'm at her Short Program, I love the jewels, and they're so welcome, but I like less the lower sleeves, opening at the wrists make me think they're sort of oversized gloves.

 

[lileychristie]

I am just over the moon that my firstborn child Rino managed to grab bronze here I'm so glad she managed to finish the GP series this season on a high note and give her confidence going to nationals.

Also it's funny seeing all the confusions regarding Rino and Rion, especially since they had contrasting skates in this competition

Speaking of Rion, I hope she's not injured from all her falls and that she's not disheartened by this performance. She is so much better than what she showed here, I hope she can bounce back for nationals and gets sent out in the 2nd half of the season

 

[Blades of Passion]

As to Sasha Cohen, while I agree that she gave us masterpieces of upper body interpretation, let's not forget her legs, her flat-edged, often double-footed skating which made the rest easier.

Cohen's legs were better positioned and utilized that anyone else these days. "double footed" skating means nothing with regards to artistic impact. Skating is an endeavor that requires two legs and is most beautiful when both legs, and the entire body, are displaying a great line or interesting shape. This has become lost in skating and needs to return. The body lines are constantly being broken, the shoulders hunched, legs bent or not extended, feet askew, the arms failing to be held in the most attractive way, head down and face failing to project to the audience. Lack of rhythm to the movement, lack of purpose.

Beautiful crossovers that caress the ice and build tension and maintain flow are infinitely preferable to random turns that serve no purpose and actively make it impossible to hold a shape and create a clear picture. Anything someone does in a program should be performed because it looks good and follows the music. If something doesn't look good or doesn't serve any real purpose with the music, it should inherently be a PCS deduction. Judges are not actually looking at these details and deducting for deficiencies though. They don't even know what the deficiencies are in terms of real choreography.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

it wouldnt change anything if french judge gave 9,00 instead of 8,75

they got very nice score here 122.55 , I dont get you point , you behaving like they were underscored by all judges

The tendency to minutely critique scoring is more likely to appear when personally disliked skaters are winning.
I don't think they would be quibbling a discarded quarter of a point if it were a discussion about, say, Lajoie and Lagha beating Lopareva and Brissaud (and possible antics from Canadian judges involving bigger numbers than a quarter of point).

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Cohen's legs were better positioned and utilized that anyone else these days. "double footed" skating means nothing with regards to artistic impact. Skating is an endeavor that requires two legs and is most beautiful when both legs, and the entire body, are displaying a great line or interesting shape. This has become lost in skating and needs to return. The body lines are constantly being broken, the shoulders hunched, legs bent or not extended, feet askew, the arms failing to be held in the most attractive way, head down and face failing to project to the audience. Lack of rhythm to the movement, lack of purpose.

Beautiful crossovers that caress the ice and build tension and maintain flow are infinitely preferable to random turns that serve no purpose and actively make it impossible to hold a shape and create a clear picture. Anything someone does in a program should be performed because it looks good and follows the music. If something doesn't look good or doesn't serve any real purpose with the music, it should inherently be a PCS deduction. Judges are not actually looking at these details and deducting for deficiencies though. They don't even know what the deficiencies are in terms of real choreography.

I agree that her posture was gorgeous in general. Normally, posture is taken into account and how crossovers are skated, and I agree that it's very important. I also agree that judges don't take it into account when they overscore some skaters with poor or intermediate posture, or with crossovers neither hidden nor skated to the music (which would never have happened with Sasha Cohen). Also, the choice of steps fitting the program (musically and in meaning) is part of the Composition in its core. But packed random steps were more a feature of some early Eteri programs? They were to be rewarded in Skating Skills and partly in Transitions, but ought to have been penalised in Composition and often Interpretation? Do you agree with this video:
https://x.com/Henni147/status/1515986544804380673

 

[Miya88]

that's not the point I am making. The point I am making is that it is possible to tinker with the scores even with the principle that outliers get thrown out. There is proof of it and history of it.

One cannot call out the officials accusing them of just keeping low levels to prop Chock and Bates up and then not call some other officials who did the same to prop FBC up in this event.

I am calling out ALL officials who play dirty.. not just selecting to fit my biases

yes, giving 10s for V/M with a fall you called out too?

 

[Mathman]

About Sasha Cohen, yes figure skating has changed over the decades. It is less beautiful, more athletic. Did Code of Points scoring push it in this direction, or is it just a natural progression?

About program component scores so far this season, they are universally low. They will rise for all skaters as the Olympic Games approach. (That's my prediction anyway.)

About judging bias, I remember back when Ullrich Salchow got favorable treatment from the Swedish judge at the 1908 Olympics....

 

[Magill]

On a more positive note, I loved Amber's behaviour during the medal ceremony, utilizing her substantial height to help tiny Japanese girls on and off the huge highest step of the podium for joint pics, lol, and then being so friendly throughout the ceremony towards them! And it felt so genuine, not jus for cameras, as is the case sometimes.
Little gestures but make you smile and feel warm on this cold winter day! I just wanted to keep it from going unnoticed!!!

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Nice ice dance lineup for the final. Good variety of countries. Great to see Zingas and Kolesnik in there.
Gilles and Poirier were lovely. The changes they've made to free elevates it a lot. Fournier Beaudry and Cizeron- astonishing. Can't wait to see how they measure up against Chock and Bates in the Final.

 

[TT_Fin]

A bit off topic but loose connection. Finnish federation would like to host GP again but when I am planning to be part-time retiree from next autumn, I would like to go CS rather. Well this year it was storm when it had been if it was hold at the same time it usually has been in Finland. But I like to see live skaters who you do not see in bigger competitions and there is more skaters to watch. Maybe they could arrange one in Tampere where worlds 2017 would be? The Nokia Arena is certainly too big and too expensive, but there is the old Arena and I have understand there have been domestic figure skating competitions. It is big enough for CS, I think more seats than at Metro Areena. Not in the centre as Nokia Arena, but easy access by tram and bus. If Finnish fed's people or someone who has connection to them read this, think about it. Well, I could suggest it myself but I suppose they are applying for GP again.

 

[Skatie]

This is not true. Yes, the outliers are discarded. But this is exactly how it does matter. If some judges give on purpose very low scores, and they were judging other very highly, the average scores are shifted up or down. This is exactly how, for instance, a team can place a few tenths ahead in the rhythm dance, just like it happened here. 5 judges out of 9 placed Piper and Paul in first place for the RD...yet, FBC outscored them. It does matter. Every score matters, even the ones that get thrown away.

Do these ridiculously low scores affect the start orders at GPF? As we all know start orders tend to matter in judges scores.

 

[4everchan]

Do these ridiculously low scores affect the start orders at GPF? As we all know start orders tend to matter in judges scores.

In principle, yes.


Both CB and FBC have 30 points... now, FBC had a costly mistake in France but their score was much higher there.. but in any case, CB won the tie breaker and will skate last.

Piper and Paul are tied with Lilah and Lewis.... but the latter got higher scores in easier events so they will skater in 4th and Piper and Paul in 3rd. Piper and Paul missed a lift in SCI so perhaps that no matter what, it wouldn't have change the tiebreaker here

The other two had one tight event and one good event and are almost tied...

Skater order will be

Z/K
R/A
G/P
F/G
FB/C
CB

So in here, it may be a bit harder for Piper and Paul to podium. if they don't podium at GPF, it may be harder for them to do so at the Olympics

Considering the very nitpicky calls they got on twizzles which lowered their score by more than the margin needed to win overall, I'd say it does have an impact.

If Piper and Paul had won here, they would skate second last. FBC would probably have lost the tie breaker to F/G and would have been the one skating In 3rd. So yeah, every score does matter.

 

[TT_Fin]

Is Finlandia cursed? It’s not that there are falls, it’s that they have so many freak falls. What’s going on at Finlandia?

I wonder if there was some technical issue with the ice. That arena is mostly for ice hockey and has been also arena for hockey Worlds and Finns should know how to keep ice in shape. But...on Saturday evening after the normal Zamboni break - I do not remember was it after men or after women - the holes repairing team went there once again and after it Zamboni made an extra round. It is very weird that in arena used as much in ice sport as that arena and in country lot's of experience in ice sport with almost 300 arenas there would be issues with ice, so the problem must be technical. Usually it is more common that Finns complain about soft ice in some countries than skaters complaining about soft ice in Finland.

Edit: One difference in the audience seats compared to the other FS competitions in Finland I have been, except once in Espoo - the Arena was cold. I wear my winter coat all the time while usually I can take it off, have had just some warm clothes. I was sitting near logistic door, so it maybe one reason my seat is cold, but I noticed in many other seats people were wearing coats.

 

[Louby]

I am complaining about all events.

Of course, there are no Russians competing

 

[frompolandwithlove]

Guys, did Mark say Stephen can jump triple Euler or did I hear that wrong? What on Earth is triple Euler??

 

[4everchan]

Guys, did Mark say Stephen can jump triple Euler or did I hear that wrong? What on Earth is triple Euler??

I think it was about Andreas not Stephen.. and well, I'd like to know what a triple Euler is too.... I'd care to see a double even