Replay Lounge 2025 Skate America

[moonvine]

Well, the coverage was terrible with the commercials on Peacock. No advance warning either. I dislike the scorebox NBC uses. At first, I thought we were not going to receive any commentating coverage because NBC came on late, after the intros and warm-ups. Tara's voice is so annoying most of the time. Johnny makes some good observations in between the overall NBC scripted hype and empty soundbites. NBC, Johnny, and Terry are completely protective of Tara, so she meanders on too much. But some of the over-chatter is because NBC thinks it's the way to cover figure skating. NOT!

Also, the fields at SkAm are okay to middling. So far, GP France and Skate Canada have been the best of a less than exciting GP series. Although pairs is my fave discipline, honestly, dance and men have been the most entertaining and captivating for a while. NBC has the headline ending disciplines as women and ice dance because Ilia is not there. The biggest U.S. stars at SkAm are Alysa Liu and Chock/ Bates. Jason Brown is a star, too, but this is his ginal season and he's not quite as strong as he has been. But he's clearly worked hard to be fit. Too bad about the stumble out on the second jump in thd combo which got downgraded. Maybe being too close to the boards is what caused the error. Otherwise, Jason looked good.

Boy, are the judges sending a message to Shaidorov to improve his presentation skills. The general consensus by snotty fans is that Shaidorov has empty programs. He is brilliant technically, though. I guess they may look for a different choreographer for him after this season, if he keeps getting such low scores with clean performances. I thought he deserved at least 91+.

I like Kazuki and he has wonderful programs, but in the sp, it's not as if he landed everything picture perfect 'without a foot wrong' like Johnny claimed. Some of Tomono's landings were slightly off-balance but he held it together. I guess he got away with it due to the 'crazy' music and off-kilter choreo theme.

Kevin Aymos' performance was the best emotionally and technically for me, despite the judges keeping his scores down behind Tomono because he didn't have two friggin' quads like Shaidorov and Tomono. I kinda half saw the rest of the men because of the turn-off coverage and commercials. It seems as if Daiwei Dai was being trained by Han Yan and then Han was pulled? Daiwei doesn't seem to be in good form ever since. Who knows what's going on with that. Chinese fed, as ever, are in love with Boyang Jin, and that's who they will send to the Olympics.

I Watch ISU feed with free VPN. Kevin was the highlight of the whole competion for me.

After wishing you could chew off your arm to get rid of Tara's voice, I bet none of you will ever pick on Chris Howarth again. HA!

I never listen to Tara. Chris is my least favorite commentator.

 

[gsk8]

Recaps and quotes are up!

Japan's Miura and Kihara grab second consecutive Skate America title

2025 Skate America: Pairs' Figure Skating Japan’s Riku Miura and Ryuichi Kihara grabbed their second consecutive Skate America Pairs' title on Saturday in

www.goldenskate.com

Kevin Aymoz captures first Grand Prix gold at Skate America

2025 Skate America: Men's Figure Skating Kevin Aymoz of France captured his first Grand Prix gold at 2025 Skate America on Saturday night in Lake Placid,

www.goldenskate.com

USA's Chock and Bates win fifth Skate America gold

2025 Skate America: Ice Dance USA’s Madison Chock and Evan Bates won their fifth Skate America gold in Lake Placid, New York on Sunday afternoon. Marjorie

www.goldenskate.com

Alysa Liu closes strong; snags Skate America title

2025 Skate America: Women's Figure Skating USA's Alysa Liu rose from second to capture the gold in the Women's discipline at Skate America on

www.goldenskate.com

 

[Skating91]

After Boston world's I didn't want to invest time into a similar event, so just checked out the jumps of the winner to see what kind of event we were getting.

Something needs to be done. It's turning people away.

In the short program, the overall event winner's 3F looks like a q, but would be kind of harsh but the kind of q they give to other skaters all the time. One judge gave the combo a 5, one a 4, five gave it a 3. A 5!
3Lz is a clear underrotation, but even the most lenient tech panel interested in appearing to do their job would give it an automatic q (very very clear q at a minimum), but nothing. The 3Lo was a huge underrotation which they did call! But a big miss on the 3Lz. Plus the PCS is huge 35, there are no complex transitions at all and mainly skating on two feet throughout. I don't really understand it.

This brings it down to about 70. That's while maintaining that very high 35 PCS, 4's and 5's for the layback spin. I won't win those debates, so let's leave it, but I can always argue jumps with indisputable proof.

Then the free skate is where things get really crazy.

Unclear edge on 3F not called, another skater would have got a q for this landing, but two 4's given by the judges.
3Lz on the q not called, 3T clear underrotation which they called!
3S off axis in the air, off balance on the landing almost comes to a stop, five 3's from the judges.
Second 3Lz was a huge underrotation they didn't call, 2A is a q not called, loses all speed, the blade wobbled 2T looks okay but not completely rotated but still two 3's from the judges, this element should not have positive GOE at all.
Second 3F has an unclear edge not called and was a big underrotation which they didn't give an UR nor even a q, then the 2T was a q as well maybe even an underrotation for another skater but at a minimum an automatic q not called of course. Instead three 3's and five 2's from the judges.

So taking that into account, keeping the cosmic PCS for a program despite all these fundamental errors, giving underrotations to only the really blatant landings and q's to the rest that 140 becomes 133 if adjudicated with some semblance of reality.

Suddenly we're looking at a score of 203, which is still quite generous in my opinion. But I could at least find it acceptable.

 

[Marius]

The Japanese judge also scored Rinka THIRD in the SP. That had the cleanest 3A a Japanese adult woman can land at the moment.

The GP circuit has always been fun to watch not because there is one overall conspiracy that everyone falls in line with, but because it's where all the contradictory interests collide with an actual outlet to do something about it, unlike the one-and-done nature of Worlds. And GP circuit leading up to the Olympics is even more messy because of this.

Japan does not want Rinka to score high and win this GP, because that would add another complication to their Olympic team selection process, with their Nationals podium likely to be occupied by Kaori, Mone and Mao Shimada- meaning it will fall on Japan to choose a senior skater for that 3rd spot and it's always a traumatic process for them without an eleventh hour challenger complicating things.

Meanwhile, US actually would love for Rinka to score high and win this GP, because any doubt that can be instilled over Kaori's dominance is a benefit for them. How can you win the OGM when you're not even the undisputed #1 in your country? Oh you won your home GP? Well, lots of Japanese skaters can do that! May we present to you... alternatives? Japan plays hard for Kaori at NHK to make sure she is presented as their #1 with the biggest scores this season, and this is how US responds.

It is nationalism. But every single skater regardless of the flag is useful in their own ways.

I agree that JSF lowballs Rinka, and it's also strange how her PCS are scored pretty often much higher in international competitions than in Nationals ones. I think the team will be Kaori and Mone and then who performs best at Nationals between Ami and Rion (a big if: will Rion make the GPF? That could be pretty crucial), but even Mone is replaceable for JSF, imo. Seeing the scores from Japanese judge at NHK: Kaori's SP 79.71 (final score: 77.05, difference: +2.66), FS 157.40 (final score: 150,13, difference: +7.27, total difference between the two programs: +9.93); Mone's scores from the Japanese judge at Skate Canada: SP 72.53 (final score: 72.29, difference: +0.24), FS: 143.94 (final score: 144.94, difference: -1.00, total difference between the two program: -0.76). And just out of curiosity, from GDF, scores from the Japanese Judge: Ami's SP 76.10 (final: 78), Kaori's 78.10 (final: 76.20), Rion's 72.42 (final: 71.03), Ami's FS: 146.19 (final: 149.08), Kaori's 147.35 (final: 148.03), Rion's 146.83 (final: 145.03). Total difference: Ami -4.79; Kaori +2.58; Rion +3.19.

 

[Marius]

On a less analytical note, the Brown's FD was the program of the event for me! They're always so interesting.

 

[TallyT]

Oh, and while I was glad not to see the lotion bottles, I would have happily brought them back and NOT had the word 'cancer' blazoned all over the KnC where viewers couldn't avoid it over and over.

Yes, I know a cancer centre was sponsoring (something that makes me scratch my head, but okay) but it still was rather offputting, surely?

 

[Isk]

Do we think Covid caused some of the debt? I mean it hit figure skating hard. And once we could watch in person, some people don't like crowds anymore. Plus financially everything is so expensive, so people cut back on disposable spending.

I think as people get older they tend to avoid crowds. About covid and crowds the bizarre situation was in some places people complained about security not being diligent enough scanning QR codes at the rink entrance, so vaxxed people were afraid to contract covid from someone unvaxxed at a crowded rink. Meanwhile those without QR codes didn't even consider buying tickets for fear they would not be admitted to the venue. If we add to the equation that some of those people rode together on a crowded public transit every day, the aftertaste is bitter to the point that people begin to reconsider whether some things are worth pursuing.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I'm currently watching the Free Dance. Lauzon's face pulling in the Kiss & Cry is makes him come across rather poorly.

 

[rabidline]

I agree that JSF lowballs Rinka, and it's also strange how her PCS are scored pretty often much higher in international competitions than in Nationals ones.

Japan (not necessarily JSF) doesn't really want additional headache in selecting the Olympic team. Other countries don't have that worry when looking at Rinka, if anything they are happy there's a senior Japanese skater who can land a 3A that can be used to highlight Kaori's deficiencies.

I think the team will be Kaori and Mone and then who performs best at Nationals between Ami and Rion (a big if: will Rion make the GPF? That could be pretty crucial), but even Mone is replaceable for JSF, imo.

Japan loves a reliable #2 to bring home results in case the #1 falters / gets injured (see how Shun Sato is shaping up this season), and so far Mone is laying down solid skates and getting solid scores without depending on landing a big element. But it does have a risk in other countries using that #2 to undermine the #1 when they can.

Seeing the scores from Japanese judge at NHK:
Kaori's
SP 79.71 (final score: 77.05, difference: +2.66)
FS 157.40 (final score: 150,13, difference: +7.27, total difference between the two programs: +9.93);

Japan needed to establish Kaori with big scores after GP France.

Mone's scores from the Japanese judge at Skate Canada:
SP 72.53 (final score: 72.29, difference: +0.24),
FS: 143.94 (final score: 144.94, difference: -1.00
total difference between the two program: -0.76).

In the GP series, i's not about the scores, it's the placements. Japan put Mone 1st for both SP and FS at Skate Canada.

I think at the moment Japan needs Mone to be a solid #2 for Kaori. In competitions without Kaori, that interest aligns with other countries wanting another Japanese woman that can be seen scoring better and skating better than Kaori, so the difference won't be too obvious. When every Japanese women wins a GP, Kaori's own GP wins get diluted (not something special, everyone in Japan is winning a GP).

And just out of curiosity, from GDF, scores from the Japanese Judge:
Ami's SP 76.10 (final: 78)
Kaori's 78.10 (final: 76.20)
Rion's 72.42 (final: 71.03),

Ami's FS: 146.19 (final: 149.08)
Kaori's 147.35 (final: 148.03)
Rion's 146.83 (final: 145.03).

Total difference: Ami -4.79; Kaori +2.58; Rion +3.19.

The scores were massive in this competition overall, but you can see Japan sticking with their preference for placements.

 

[Marius]

Japan (not necessarily JSF) doesn't really want additional headache in selecting the Olympic team. Other countries don't have that worry when looking at Rinka, if anything they are happy there's a senior Japanese skater who can land a 3A that can be used to highlight Kaori's deficiencies.


Japan loves a reliable #2 to bring home results in case the #1 falters / gets injured (see how Shun Sato is shaping up this season), and so far Mone is laying down solid skates and getting solid scores without depending on landing a big element. But it does have a risk in other countries using that #2 to undermine the #1 when they can.


Japan needed to establish Kaori with big scores after GP France.


In the GP series, i's not about the scores, it's the placements. Japan put Mone 1st for both SP and FS at Skate Canada.

I think at the moment Japan needs Mone to be a solid #2 for Kaori. In competitions without Kaori, that interest aligns with other countries wanting another Japanese woman that can be seen scoring better and skating better than Kaori, so the difference won't be too obvious. When every Japanese women wins a GP, Kaori's own GP wins get diluted (not something special, everyone in Japan is winning a GP).


The scores were massive in this competition overall, but you can see Japan sticking with their preference for placements.

I agree with your points, but do you think it's fair?
I mean, all the federations/nations play their games; but those games are, often, not in the skaters' best interests (or, at least, not of all the skaters).

 

[icetug]

Just like Osaka, Saskattoon, Grenoble.... and Finland does not expect Finland to be much better next weekend.

I was in Grenoble and I don't think there were any attendance issues. Quite the opposite. On Saturday and Sunday, every seat in my section was taken, even in the front row, where the plexiglass obscured the view. The problem might have been the seating arrangement – the stand opposite was very probably reserved for some officials and actually didn't fill up until Sunday. In one corner, there was a reservation for a local club, and it also didn't fill up until Sunday, etc.

On the other hand, I was at the GP Finland in 2018 and I remember it was fairly empty on Friday as well, with crowds showing up on Saturday and Sunday.

 

[lariko]

I cannot speak about the alternative GP because I am not watching.

However, I wouldn't make a judgment based on SKAM ... except for dance, it was a pretty low level event. I am not so sure why it happened that way but it's by far the weakest GP stop of the season.

It happened that way because there is not enough skaters and four years didn't change the simple fact that the pool is too shallow. There is a way to boost ranks with accomplished, hungry skaters. I am sure ISU can devise another convoluted rule set for it to happen. They are great at devising the rule sets.

 

[lariko]

What's wrong with Osaka? We've been to Osaka this summer and it is a very convenient city to get around to with metro going everywhere. Was actually much more convenient than Tokyo when you fly to Narita and have to go to actual Tokyo or Yokahama. And, like, you can only fly to Narita from Canada. I sure would rather do Osaka than Tokyo. Tokyo is far too complicated and expensive. The problem with Japan is not selling tickets properly. There are some extreme inconvenices to buy from abroad, basically you have to plan international travel around a loterry win and have a Japanese credit card or phone or something like that. Jeez.

 

[rabidline]

Osaka was reporting that they sold out all same day tickets for the final day so empty seats were not their problem.

 

[rabidline]

I agree with your points, but do you think it's fair?
I mean, all the federations/nations play their games; but those games are, often, not in the skaters' best interests (or, at least, not of all the skaters).

Well we know damn well it's not. The sport is built on those games anyway, and I decided to follow it knowing the score because at its best, the sport allows for magic to happen and I can use some magic.

 

[lariko]

Do any of the people complaining about home cooking in the ladies' event actually bother to look at the protocols?

The US judge scored Alysa 3rd in the free skate, behind both Rinka and Gubanova. THIRD. Meanwhile, the judges from the other podium contender federations - Georgia, Japan, Italy, Korea, plus Germany and France - all scored Alysa first.

Meanwhile, the Japanese judge scored Rinka FIFTH, coming in behind Alysa, Starr, Gubanova, and Gutmann.

You might not agree with the outcome, and I get it, but for the love of God, knock it off with the conspiracy theories. If anything, this appears to be the OPPOSITE of nationalism across the board.

The way judging works that it takes a block of at least three judges to score a preferred competitor just a bit higher, while the non prefered one just a bit lower. They will always avoid home judge if possible because this bias is the most monitored. The scores will never be so outrageously high as to constitute an outliar. This scheme is described in the recent ISU hearing if you are curious just last year iirc, and there was a judge disqualified for this.

People online might not know all the rules, but the judges know them very, very, very well and they can calculate the averages. Home cooking in an international event is not one judge from home country going wild. That perception is from 6.0 system. Nowadays, it would do nothing but have their results struck out and earn them a suspension. It's more sophisticated and basically almost fair, tbh.

In this case, it is apparently convenient for both feds that Liu wins, and Liu won. There are arguments in her favor based on perception of PCSs and technical calls. But, the Russian commentators have a saying, 'you can't fool the audience.' I am positive that if they were Skater A and Skater B from Country N, with every jumping pass reviewed for both skaters, in most panels Watanabe would have won and was scored higher in SP.

Qs and even URs are often hard to detect. Yesterday, Yagudin and Kolyada, two renown skaters, finally agreed on something on live television -- both of them, quite vocally, during a slow motion replay of a jump asserted with a full confidence that a called jump was fully rotated. When the third commentator brought up ice trace, they also in unison repeated, it was clean, they do not see the tell-tale 'comma'. That's Yagudin and Kolayada. I mean, Yagudin is a windbag and underotaions came after his time, but Kolyada is not and he skated in the time of jump scrutiny. They never agree on anything. That was a jump in slo-mo, fully on display, high res.

That's what people online pick up on, not that they are behind Japanese skater versus an American one. At a guess, most people raging online are neither Americans nor Japanese.

 

[Parsifal3363]

I admired the skates of Alysa Liu and Rinka Watanabe and appreciate the enthusiasm many have expressed here regarding them. I find myself, however, drawn to the reflective, introspective approach, the one I find in Anastasiia Gubanova's skating. There is no emptiness, no time spent waiting for the next jump. Rather, each moment is filled with gesture and nuance expressing the sentiment conveyed by the music. "Joy" can sometimes be little more than a mask with smile pasted on it, but true joy comes from within, from the heart, and may come as quietly as a sun rise. Here is beauty, then, and a quality that I look for, as I would a key to unlock my own hardness of heart. Thus was my heart opened by her free skate yesterday.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Uncivilized animals. That's the comment section of YouTube on a regular basis.

Some people were accusing certain skaters who appeared to show genuine emotion of basically "crying for points". It's sociopathic.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

So if you wanna know why this sport is losing spectators, go watch the end of Skate America Women Free Skate. Like these empty rows and empty sectors were not enough, they made sure you will have more of those.
And if you thought the comments which you saw yesterday on the internet were outrageous, do not go there today. It is going to be much much worse than it was.
And., no, this win does not make Alysa any more popular anywhere outside of US, quite to the contrary.
Like if anyone cared.

It's pretty obvious you do care.
But do you think that people had a clairvoyant vision of the future and thought "oh, Alysa Liu is going win. I'm not going to go!"?!

Ticket prices are often just too expensive for people to consider going, especially if its held in an inconvenient location. Many sports are also popular because lots of people at lower/casual levels take part- skating is expensive and facilities are inaccessible to many. Look at artistic gymnastics- lots of people do it and so that gives them an interest and an understanding of it. Fans online may complain of "unworthy" winners but that doesn't stop them watching or attending competitions.

Parasocial and toxic fan behaviours (which are often normalised, including on this forum) could damage the sport's future. The comments often seen on youtube under even junior videos should make any parent wary (even if comments aren't negative). Of course it's bad, if not worse, in other sports, but at least in other sports success can pay well.

 

[lariko]

It's pretty obvious you do care.
But do you think that people had a clairvoyant vision of the future and thought "oh, Alysa Liu is going win. I'm not going to go!"?!

Ticket prices are often just too expensive for people to consider going, especially if its held in an inconvenient location. Many sports are also popular because lots of people at lower/casual levels take part- skating is expensive and facilities are inaccessible to many. Look at artistic gymnastics- lots of people do it and so that gives them an interest and an understanding of it. Fans online may complain of "unworthy" winners but that doesn't stop them watching or attending competitions.

Parasocial and toxic fan behaviours (which are often normalised, including on this forum) could damage the sport's future. The comments often seen on youtube under even junior videos should make any parent wary (even if comments aren't negative). Of course it's bad, if not worse, in other sports, but at least in other sports success can pay well.

In our case Skate America is out of the questions because:

1. American border requirements and persistent information of harassment on the border for the Canadians, including phone searches
2. American politics
3. Air traffic controllers problems leading to more airplane disasters and delays
4. Unrest in American cities
5. Where this Lake Placid even is?
6. Seriously, no Malinin?
7. And who else is there? Dunno, don't care.
8. Still no Russians...