Replay Lounge 2025 Skate Canada

[frompolandwithlove]

ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON....

Christ, can we at least get some NEW complaints?

Well, not really, since it's an OLD and ongoing issue.

Fine. He gets good PCS. This is a Skate Canada thread. Who among all the lackluster, unoriginal, paint-by-number flailing and flopping and falling programs presented here by the men (at least in the free) deserved higher PCS? "He won the PCS by nine points OMG!" Honestly, considering what else was on offer, the qap was too small.

The flailing and flopping and falling - it literally doesn't matter. They all could have skated like five year olds and it still wouldn't be a reasonable argument. There is no rule that says that in every competition at least one skater has to have 90+ in pcs. "Oh, nobody skated as good as we hoped and now we have to pick one skater to give him that high pcs" - it doesn't work like that. And saying that one skater deserved higher pcs just because others skated worse? Imagine if in a (hypothetical) weak event only one skater attempted a quad and it was clearly under-rotated, borderline downgrade and had poor quality, but we give him +4 and +5 just because others were jumping only triples and doubles and didn't even try anything more difficult. It wouldn't make sense - and it's the same argument you are trying to make here.

I don't really want to discuss Illia's PCS, I don't care that much, I don't think judges will start judging him differently, my emotions would only be a waste of my energy, but I wish his fans were at least using arguments others that "he Improved" or "the audience liked it". I would love to see video footage of his footwork, difficult turns, edge control and such that they think are a proof of 9+ skating skills. That would make the whole discussion a whole lot more productive and much less emotion-based.

 

[lariko]

Did I miss something? Were they there for everyone else and then got up and left when he took the ice?

God, no. The arena was just nicely empty, with best seats filled. It's Saskatoon. You didn't need to worry about bathroom being too busy, so didn't have to go during skates, like in Montreal. Saskatoon is a town 85 kilometers to the east from the middle of nowhere. Literally, an empty cultivated prairie surrounds it on all sides. I dunno why Skate Canada picked Saskatoon that didn't even have arenas for practice that let them have a gala and a normal schedule, but that was what they did. Very budget option and it was super convenient for a hotel once you actually got there. But it ain't much in terms of population looool. Grain elevators, some rail tracks, a few farms and lots of fields. If you didn't fill up in Kindersley, you're out of luck for kilometers on end. Like, our every province out West has two cities, but Saskatchewan has only Saskatoon and it's still pretty small.

 

[noskates]

Oh please - when have you seen a venue for a Grand Prix competition in North America (or many places else) that are full. I've been to US Nationals in Boston, Portland and San Jose and the arenas were not even 50% sold - and the biggest crowds were for the men's and women's singles finals. And you would expect those comps to draw more than a GP. Don't blame that on the popularity of the skaters but on the popularity of the sport. Very weak argument about attendance. That could also be said for Stars on Ice as well. The sport does NOT have the drawing power anymore - sadly. And that's an ISU problem - not an individual skater's problem.

Backing away from this thread before I start chewing on my arm out of frustration.

 

[4everchan]

Oh please - when have you seen a venue for a Grand Prix competition in North America (or many places else) that are full. I've been to US Nationals in Boston, Portland and San Jose and the arenas were not even 50% sold - and the biggest crowds were for the men's and women's singles finals. And you would expect those comps to draw more than a GP. Don't blame that on the popularity of the skaters but on the popularity of the sport. Very weak argument about attendance. That could also be said for Stars on Ice as well. The sport does NOT have the drawing power anymore - sadly. And that's an ISU problem - not an individual skater's problem.

Backing away from this thread before I start chewing on my arm out of frustration.

Laval,QC (SCI and Nationals, both times I went it was packed). Montreal worlds were pretty packed as well.

 

[Mathman]

Grain elevators, some rail tracks, a few farms and lots of fields.

Hey, I grew up among grain elevators and railroad tracks. Me and my pal Opie Taylor never missed a skating show (assuming the pea-picking harvest was over).

 

[Arigato]

When have you seen a venue for a Grand Prix competition in North America that is full? It's not that difficult to know the answer: Skate Canada. 2019. Full house. Yuzu and Nam Nguyen rocked the place. Fantastic.

 

[Mathman]

I think it is okay to let people express their opinions here and as such, everyone is entitled to their own views on this...

YMMD

My mileage does indeed differ.

Having an opinion is one thing. Taunting skaters over the internet by saying nobody wants to watch you skate, loser -- no, that's just mean, and gratuitously so.

These earnest young athletes sacrifice everything for their sport. 99.999999 percent of them never make a dime from it -- quite the contrary, more likely their parents (or their government) go in hock for tens of thousands of dollars.

Nothing wrong with kindness. That's my opinion.

 

[lariko]

Laval,QC (SCI and Nationals, both times I went it was packed). Montreal worlds were pretty packed as well.

Yeah. I wish it wasn't so hard to get out East for us, because Montreal definitely was far more attended than Saskatoon. Personally, I prefer less people to more people, but for the sake of all skaters, I hope there will be more interest at some point

 

[4everchan]

My mileage does indeed differ.

Having an opinion is one thing. Taunting skaters over the internet by saying nobody wants to watch you skate, loser -- no, that's just mean, and gratuitously so.

These earnest young athletes sacrifice everything for their sport. 99.999999 percent of them never make a dime from it -- quite the contrary, more likely their parents (or their government) go in hock for tens of thousands of dollars.

Nothing wrong with kindness. That's my opinion.

Well. I don't think that's what I have been doing though. I agree that disparaging skaters is not good. Talking about how I disagree with the judging based on what I have observed is far from taunting skaters

 

[el henry]

Yes, it is still going on. I like watching Ilia, I like watching him throw himself in the air, I like that he commits to what he is skating to.

That said,
He is not my favorite skater. He should not be getting the PCS he gets. He gets the quad bonus in PCS. Twas ever thus.

Does that mean I am a hater who is trashing the future of skating, that I sit and weep about the scores, that I don't understand that gosh darn this is a sport, a SPORT, I tell you and Ilia is the one true athlete that will revive the sport sport sport sport of figure skating.

Oh please. As long as I think I am hearing that, I will push back.

I can enjoy who I enjoy and express my opinion about scores without being mischaracterized. Just as everyone else can. Isn't that why we're here?

 

[lariko]

And i will fight the second I hear meh, only jumper, arrogant, Russian, bad haircut, not artistic, international conspiracy that binds every judge on the globe, PCSs of 5, can't skate, should learn to skate, kills figure skating dead, undeserved, responsible for someone else's injury and similar nonsense.

 

[4everchan]

And i will fight the second I hear meh, only jumper, arrogant, Russian, bad haircut, international conspiracy that binds every judge on the globe, PCSs of 5, can't skate, should learn to skate, kills figure skating dead, undeserved, responsible for someone else's injury and similar nonsense.

And you should... But please know that some people here are much more nuanced than that and many don't insult skaters while expressing themselves

 

[lariko]

And you should... But please know that some people here are much more nuanced than that and many don't insult skaters while expressing themselves

I believe that everyone can do a little homework, read the rules and hold back from expressing themselves in a way that is intended to hurt. And I am pretty sure in most cases they know very well when they are posting with intent to tear 'them' a new one or mock 'them'.

 

[Arigato]

And you should... But please know that some people here are much more nuanced than that and many don't insult skaters while expressing themselves

Actually, no. If anyone at all thinks a skater is merely a "jumper" they are entitled to that opinion without someone hitting them over the head with a club trying to force them to believe otherwise. If I said, "It's getting a little ridiculous. It's like the slam dunk contest, that's what it's becoming" regarding the focus on number of quads, would I be chided for giving my opinion? I hope not. That quote was from Patrick Chan, not me. And btw, Patrick was entitled to his opinion as well without being harassed. I'm not sure what's going on around here all of a sudden but one doesn't get to insult, say, a female skater for what she wore on her head as part of her costume while simultaneously whining about what others are saying about a male skater's haircut.

Seriously, several people need to step away from operating with a double standard. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Mathman]

To me, figure skating and figure skaters offer something for everyone. You aren't impressed by big jumps? OK.You are? OK.

I am cool with a fan that says, about Ilia Malinin -- let's hear it for the boy!

A am also cool with the fan who says, I like balletic skating and my all-time favorite is John Curry. (Actually, I have just described Tonto K.)

What is not so cool to me is when people say Malinin is a terrible skater because he is not John Currry. Or that Curry was a bad influence on the sport because he wasn't Evgeny Plushenko.

Big tent. Come one, come all.

 

[4everchan]

Actually, no. If anyone at all thinks a skater is merely a "jumper" they are entitled to that opinion without someone hitting them over the head with a club trying to force them to believe otherwise. If I said, "It's getting a little ridiculous. It's like the slam dunk contest, that's what it's becoming" regarding the focus on number of quads, would I be chided for giving my opinion? I hope not. That quote was from Patrick Chan, not me. And btw, Patrick was entitled to his opinion as well without being harassed. I'm not sure what's going on around here all of a sudden but one doesn't get to insult, say, a female skater for what she wore on her head as part of her costume while simultaneously whining about what others are saying about a male skater's haircut.

Seriously, several people need to step away from operating with a double standard. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I meant it differently. Lariko is entitled to get opinion too and if she feels like challenging sometime who is disparaging a skater, it's up to her.

 

[Arigato]

Lariko is entitled to get opinion too and if she feels like challenging sometime who is disparaging a skater, it's up to her.

Not if that person has repeatedly engaged in it themselves. Posting history is easy to access. Once again, double standards will not work. I can't make this any more clear. Further, just because person A doesn't like person B's post about a skater, doesn't mean the post was disparaging, hateful, or any other word one cares to use when trying to silence dissent. That tactic won't work either. This isn't a cult, it's a discussion forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone is not entitled to pronounce themselves the final arbiter of what a member's intent is when they post. Only the author of a post knows their own intent.

 

[4everchan]

Not if that person has repeatedly engaged in it themselves. Posting history is easy to access. Once again, double standards will not work. I can't make this any more clear. Further, just because person A doesn't like person B's post about a skater, doesn't mean the post was disparaging, hateful, or any other word one cares to use when trying to silence dissent. That tactic won't work either. This isn't a cult, it's a discussion forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone is not entitled to pronounce themselves the final arbiter of what a member's intent is when they post. Only the author of a post knows their own intent.

Yup

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

To me, figure skating and figure skaters offer something for everyone. You aren't impressed by big jumps? OK.You are? OK.

I am cool with a fan that says, about Ilia Malinin -- let's hear it for the boy!

A am also cool with the fan who says, I like balletic skating and my all-time favorite is John Curry. (Actually, I have just described Tonto K.)

What is not so cool to me is when people say Malinin is a terrible skater because he is not John Currry. Or that Curry was a bad influence on the sport because he wasn't Evgeny Plushenko.

Big tent. Come one, come all.

As far as tastes go, this is extremely true, and it's also true that apart (partly) for the Rhythm Dance in Ice Dance, there are programs and styles for all tastes (even sometimes with one given skater, if versatile), and even competitive Figure Skating is also an entertainment form, where public need not care for technical rules or the scores — although it often sees, but not always. There's an argument on why people didn't come in Saskatoon, which may relate to both the entertainment and the sport sub-topics: it might be because they weren't interested, then we may discuss why; Lariko had a point in highlighting the smallness and remoteness of Saskatoon, this may affect attendance of the general public who just wishes to have an idea of what a Figure Skating competition looks like live (if they ever watched some on TV or SNS) or just a passtime which happens to be next door, because they won't travel; one can understand Skate Canada if they're a bit out of cash for organising Skate Canada International in Saskatoon because this general public is unlikely to wish to pay more than a movie theatre ticket for a half-day of competition, and venues and hotels in large conurbations are probably much more expensive. It's only if they can afford to prepare the future that they will consider that in this casual public, maybe 1% will start being invested in the sport in a way or another.

Now, the sub-topic which some resent, regards the application of written rules, which isn't a matter of taste, although even honest judges are human and likely to score a little higher a program they personally like.

https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.azurefd.net/isudamcontainer/CMS/sportrulesdisciplinecategory/pdf/SPComponentCharts2024064619000_17327068477733.pdf

It's pretty little about artistry, but in reality, it's the means of artistry. Although some skaters have historically managed to be highly artistic without involving difficult footwork, they also give an impression that Figure Skating is limited as an art form, which a complete mastery of skating technique allows to avoid (allied with musicality and vision on one's moves).

 

[Mathman]

Now, the sub-topic which some resent, regards the application of written rules, which isn't a matter of taste, although even honest judges are human and likely to score a little higher a program they personally like.

https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.azurefd.net/isudamcontainer/CMS/sportrulesdisciplinecategory/pdf/SPComponentCharts2024064619000_17327068477733.pdf

To tell the truth I have always been rather impressed at the ISU's attempts at capturing in words what the component of "composition" is supposed to measure. This is not an easy task and I think that whoever writes these rules has done well.

Still. I am not surprised that different individuals, judges as well as fans, come to different conclusions regarding the extent to which a particular program adequately expresses the "musical phrasing and form," whether the ice pattern is. "interesting and creative" with respect to the placements of units of movement; or whether the piece offers represents a "coherent unity" with all parts contributing to a sense of completeness.

These are indeed what we might hope for in a painting, a musical composition, or a well-thrown pot, and, to me, show why defining "artistry" is such a challenge. We "know it when we see it" (or at least we think we do), but this does not head off disagreement among experts and enthusiastic onlookers alike -- far from it.

It's pretty little about artistry, but in reality, it's the means of artistry. Although some skaters have historically managed to be highly artistic without involving difficult footwork, they also give an impression that Figure Skating is limited as an art form, which a complete mastery of skating technique allows to avoid (allied with musicality and vision on one's moves).

I like this part, especially the bolded sentence. I think it is especially applicable to Skating Skills. If a skater is weak on this component. that skater is handicapped when it comes to the components of composition and performance, too, not to mention TES potential.