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- Jan 14, 2014
I hate the schedule so much. There's no reason the pairs should have to compete two days in a row with the way ice dance and men's singles alternated.
2026 Olympics: Free Dance
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That is a categorical lie. Even with the French judges score omitted, they still would have won.
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- Feb 14, 2018
I just looked at the venues for the 2030 Winter Olympics. From what I'm seeing, they are going to use the facilities from the Albertville Olympics for skiing and other Olympic villages will be set up in other ski areas close by for ski jumping and cross country skiing. The skating will be 6 hours south in Nice. Do the French ID team have another Olympics in them?
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- Feb 14, 2018
I don't know where Japan was going to host but there's plenty of snow in Hokkaido and Sapporo.
That's not completely true and not my point. C/B lost here and there occasionally - 4CC, even a Grand Prix. And they weren't receiving stellar scores at the beginning of the season like FB/C did with obvious issues. And it does not change the point that Cizeron's programmes are an endless repetition. It's interesting to watch what skaters come up with each season, especially ID. It's not interesting to watch what he comes up with - it will be the same thing in another costume with another piece of music. It does not even matter which music it is. He has weak points - twizzles aren't great, at least this season, and lifts are generally meh. Saying spectacular lifts disrupt the flow of the program is a very weak excuse. Of course there are around spectacular lifts which accentuate the flow of the program ... he simply does not want to do one ... it's the fault of that he can get away with it. So it is not the case that he has a massive cushion over others like Malinin when he makes very visible mistakes. Think about the variety of programs Virtue/Moir came up with. From an ethereal Mahler to Moulin Rouge.
The repulsive contexts surrounding the couple are another matter not related to the scoring of course but for me it makes FB/C unwatchable. Thankfully they did not take away the US team gold as well.
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- Dec 7, 2017
Hi all, sorry these are my super long thoughts from seeing the ice dance final live. If you just want the gossip it’s in the last 7-8 paragraphs 
It was a great competition in the way that everyone skated cleanly until the last group. It was really hard to separate the teams within the first 3 groups because they all skated so well. Baby Brits were a bit more ragged in some of their elements towards the middle-half to the end of the programme so their score was fair. It was a bit surprising that baby Spanish overtook the Swedes as I thought they skated slower and smaller but their choreo was perhaps less open than the Swedes.
T/V were marvelous. It was funny sitting by the Finnish Skating Federation cause they were SO enthusiastic cheering T/V and very loud eventhough there were only two of them. Nice to see that kind of support for Juulia and Mathias.
CPom, Lala, and Z/K I would sort of group together in that they all had lovely classical programmes and skated well but maybe not enough highlights within the programmes to get the crowd super enthused. You could have heard a pin drop when Lala performed - it really was beautiful but it didn’t feel very special like it did when they performed the first time round. It could have done with more interesting choreo highlights. Same for CPom. Z/K also lacked highlights but they were very committed to the performance and sharp and they had some really nice intricate choreo. I am not sure it was 5th place material but coupled with their RD, it was fair.
S/D were superb!! It was definitely one of the highlights of the night. Their timing was so on and the programme really has genius choreography. They received the first huge applause from the audience. The Lithuanians were also in this category. Great original programme skated well, soliciting massive audience applause. L/B were fantastic as well. Their programme was a bit classical but also a bit off the wall so they really stood out. They totally deserved the high marks and placement.
It’s funny that mistakes didn’t happen until the last group. Charlene and Marco were wonderful. It was a really classy programme and skate. It’s just a shame about Marco’s twizzles. I think they suffered a wee bit like C/B in fatigue after the team event.
The Brits were a bit of a hot mess. It’s a shame cause I love this programme and the audience really got into it but it did not have the impact it could have had. Lilah messing up the twizzles so early on really took the shine off and they never seemed to recover.
I’ve already shared my thoughts on the top 3 so I’ll get to the gossip now. After the medals were awarded, Madi and Evan didn’t stay on the ice very long. I was mostly paying attention to Piper and Paul who stayed on the ice with FB/C celebrating their medals with their coaches and the fans. All the IAM teams came out to the kiss and cry area and from what I could see Madi and Evan spent a lot of time there with the teams commiserating. Madi was devastated. At one point, she had her head down on the boards from the ice side and it looked like she was being consoled by CPom and Z/K who were trying to resssure her about something. She then spent a lot of time in deep hugs with Patch and MF, Olivia Smart and the other teams.
I do feel bad for C/B after everything they have been through but I must say, on reflection, Madi’s behaviour seemed a bit entitled perhaps. It just seemed a bit much to spend so much time being sad with all the IAM teams.
I get that it sucks that FB/C won the gold and she wanted it very badly, but no one is entitled to the gold medal. C/B have won 3 world golds and have sometimes benefited from reputational judging. FB/C had the right to return to skating just like C/B, G/P and G/F had the right to stay on for another quad, much longer than most ice dance teams do, because they wanted to be on the podium. I’m sure teams like the Brits, Lala, CPom, G/P and Z/K would have loved to compete for gold at these winter games if those teams had retired.
C/B are clearly well-loved by the IAM teams so it was nice to see them supported in that way, even if it seemed a tad dramatic. Evan seemed to take it all his stride and reacted much better. After C/B went “back stage” I saw MF and Olivia quickly follow in what seemed like a bid to continue consoling Madi.
For their part FB/C seemed quite shocked and overwhelmed by their win and they remained a respectful distance away on the ice allowing C/B to commiserate with the IAM gang before going over to celebrate with them after Madi and Evan had left. From what I could see, all the teams seemed very happy for them.
Piper and Paul were ADORABLE celebrating with Juris and the rest of the coaching team. Piper even gave her medal to Juris to wear for a few minutes. PSquared were honestly the most joyous in their win and it was delightful. They had a really beautiful moment with G/F after they overtook them for the bronze. The two couples spent ages in deep hugs. There was so much respect between them. It was beautiful to witness.
Oh a funny thing was after the Brits skated, G/F were still in the winners seat and after the Brits got their not-so-great marks, the camera panned to Charlene and Marco and Charlene had such a smug smile on her face. Not in an entitled way, but just in a gleeful way that showed there was no love lost between those teams and Charlene knew their skating skills were better
Last bits of gossip - I ended up sitting by and befriending one of the judge’s mothers. She was telling me that after each competition, the judges have to stay on and justify every mark and GOE they gave to each team. If judges seem to be biased for certain teams or their own nations over a few competitions, they get into big trouble. I thought that was interesting as it seems they really are monitored closely. So take from that what you will.
Lastly, I could see the section where the non-judging judges and ISU officials sat for the event, and the biggest applause from that section went to S/D, Piper and Paul and FB/C which I thought was interesting.
I really loved the event. It’s so nice that G/F have a team bronze, Piper and Paul an individual bronze and C/B have an individuals silver and a team gold (I mean c’mon Madi, that’s still brilliant). If we want judges to judge what happened on the night, FB/C deserved the gold overall. Yes Gui slipped but he saved it really well and they did skate better than C/B overall. They definitely had a lot more presence in the FD than in the RD, so I’m not mad at the final standings.
It was a great competition in the way that everyone skated cleanly until the last group. It was really hard to separate the teams within the first 3 groups because they all skated so well. Baby Brits were a bit more ragged in some of their elements towards the middle-half to the end of the programme so their score was fair. It was a bit surprising that baby Spanish overtook the Swedes as I thought they skated slower and smaller but their choreo was perhaps less open than the Swedes.
T/V were marvelous. It was funny sitting by the Finnish Skating Federation cause they were SO enthusiastic cheering T/V and very loud eventhough there were only two of them. Nice to see that kind of support for Juulia and Mathias.
CPom, Lala, and Z/K I would sort of group together in that they all had lovely classical programmes and skated well but maybe not enough highlights within the programmes to get the crowd super enthused. You could have heard a pin drop when Lala performed - it really was beautiful but it didn’t feel very special like it did when they performed the first time round. It could have done with more interesting choreo highlights. Same for CPom. Z/K also lacked highlights but they were very committed to the performance and sharp and they had some really nice intricate choreo. I am not sure it was 5th place material but coupled with their RD, it was fair.
S/D were superb!! It was definitely one of the highlights of the night. Their timing was so on and the programme really has genius choreography. They received the first huge applause from the audience. The Lithuanians were also in this category. Great original programme skated well, soliciting massive audience applause. L/B were fantastic as well. Their programme was a bit classical but also a bit off the wall so they really stood out. They totally deserved the high marks and placement.
It’s funny that mistakes didn’t happen until the last group. Charlene and Marco were wonderful. It was a really classy programme and skate. It’s just a shame about Marco’s twizzles. I think they suffered a wee bit like C/B in fatigue after the team event.
The Brits were a bit of a hot mess. It’s a shame cause I love this programme and the audience really got into it but it did not have the impact it could have had. Lilah messing up the twizzles so early on really took the shine off and they never seemed to recover.
I’ve already shared my thoughts on the top 3 so I’ll get to the gossip now. After the medals were awarded, Madi and Evan didn’t stay on the ice very long. I was mostly paying attention to Piper and Paul who stayed on the ice with FB/C celebrating their medals with their coaches and the fans. All the IAM teams came out to the kiss and cry area and from what I could see Madi and Evan spent a lot of time there with the teams commiserating. Madi was devastated. At one point, she had her head down on the boards from the ice side and it looked like she was being consoled by CPom and Z/K who were trying to resssure her about something. She then spent a lot of time in deep hugs with Patch and MF, Olivia Smart and the other teams.
I do feel bad for C/B after everything they have been through but I must say, on reflection, Madi’s behaviour seemed a bit entitled perhaps. It just seemed a bit much to spend so much time being sad with all the IAM teams.
I get that it sucks that FB/C won the gold and she wanted it very badly, but no one is entitled to the gold medal. C/B have won 3 world golds and have sometimes benefited from reputational judging. FB/C had the right to return to skating just like C/B, G/P and G/F had the right to stay on for another quad, much longer than most ice dance teams do, because they wanted to be on the podium. I’m sure teams like the Brits, Lala, CPom, G/P and Z/K would have loved to compete for gold at these winter games if those teams had retired.
C/B are clearly well-loved by the IAM teams so it was nice to see them supported in that way, even if it seemed a tad dramatic. Evan seemed to take it all his stride and reacted much better. After C/B went “back stage” I saw MF and Olivia quickly follow in what seemed like a bid to continue consoling Madi.
For their part FB/C seemed quite shocked and overwhelmed by their win and they remained a respectful distance away on the ice allowing C/B to commiserate with the IAM gang before going over to celebrate with them after Madi and Evan had left. From what I could see, all the teams seemed very happy for them.
Piper and Paul were ADORABLE celebrating with Juris and the rest of the coaching team. Piper even gave her medal to Juris to wear for a few minutes. PSquared were honestly the most joyous in their win and it was delightful. They had a really beautiful moment with G/F after they overtook them for the bronze. The two couples spent ages in deep hugs. There was so much respect between them. It was beautiful to witness.
Oh a funny thing was after the Brits skated, G/F were still in the winners seat and after the Brits got their not-so-great marks, the camera panned to Charlene and Marco and Charlene had such a smug smile on her face. Not in an entitled way, but just in a gleeful way that showed there was no love lost between those teams and Charlene knew their skating skills were better
Last bits of gossip - I ended up sitting by and befriending one of the judge’s mothers. She was telling me that after each competition, the judges have to stay on and justify every mark and GOE they gave to each team. If judges seem to be biased for certain teams or their own nations over a few competitions, they get into big trouble. I thought that was interesting as it seems they really are monitored closely. So take from that what you will.
Lastly, I could see the section where the non-judging judges and ISU officials sat for the event, and the biggest applause from that section went to S/D, Piper and Paul and FB/C which I thought was interesting.
I really loved the event. It’s so nice that G/F have a team bronze, Piper and Paul an individual bronze and C/B have an individuals silver and a team gold (I mean c’mon Madi, that’s still brilliant). If we want judges to judge what happened on the night, FB/C deserved the gold overall. Yes Gui slipped but he saved it really well and they did skate better than C/B overall. They definitely had a lot more presence in the FD than in the RD, so I’m not mad at the final standings.
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- Jun 2, 2014
Piper's dress was stunning.
I want one!
That makes no sense. This a sport. It’s governed by rules. When the scores are blatantly manipulated it leaves it open for future manipulation. You like the program. But that isn’t a criteria. It’s pointed out ad infinitum why the should not have won and possibly should have only received bronze.
A lift issue.
Sweden would be a great site for the Winter Olympics.
They got 5 or 4 for all of their lifts from all judges, including the American one, who gave them 5, 5 and 4 on their lifts. I guess that judge was in on the fix too.
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- Dec 5, 2015
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I get that FB/C might be worthy of winning in a 6.0 system. However, in the IJS, the final result is really just adding up the points you get on each element. I can point to the exact elements they were overscored in and explain exactly why they were overscored. This certainly isn't the first time this has happened. All the top teams benefit from or have benefited from overscoring on certain elements but they are usually punished for obvious errors and FB/C weren't. To me FB/C had similar execution to G/F in the FD. (I prefer the Italian's material, but that's just my bias). Both are great skaters, but one got punished for several small errors and the other had already been chosen as winners.
I don't think most of their elements are superior. Their skating skills are superior but not their elements. If you look at the judging bullets, I think lifts and choreo elements would go to C/B. Stepseq are usually tied with FB/C having more flow/glide and Maddie/Evan being precise, having more unique holds, skating closer,being in perfect sync and having more choreo throughout. The twizzles would usually absolutely go to FB/C but not in this competition because they were messy in both segments.
I get that FB/C might be worthy of winning in a 6.0 system. However, in the IJS, the final result is really just adding up the points you get on each element. I can point to the exact elements they were overscored in and explain exactly why they were overscored. This certainly isn't the first time this has happened. All the top teams benefit from or have benefited from overscoring on certain elements but they are usually punished for obvious errors and FB/C weren't. To me FB/C had similar execution to G/F in the FD. (I prefer the Italian's material, but that's just my bias). Both are great skaters, but one got punished for several small errors and the other had already been chosen as winners.
There were actually a number of issues. In addition to the twizzles, out of sync and then Cizeron's mistake. Cizeron got off balance on the rotation lift and the lift almost went down. As a result, the footwork was very very wacky. They got +4/5s on that lift. In the stepseq, Cizeron botched the twizzle and as a result basically missed a connection with Laurence. Most judges did not punish this mistake. Keep PCS the same, sure. No problem. But, if the judges had given them correct GOE for these elements with errors (these were not mistakes outside of elements, they were on elements) they would not have won. This is why Asher Hill and Marco/Charlene said they thought the result was wrong. Anyway, this is ice dance. I still love watching it and this result isn't going to change that although scoring this season was upsetting throughout first with the way the Italians and P/P were dropped and now this.
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- Feb 1, 2015
Oh a funny thing was after the Brits skated, G/F were still in the winners seat and after the Brits got their not-so-great marks, the camera panned to Charlene and Marco and Charlene had such a smug smile on her face. Not in an entitled way, but just in a gleeful way that showed there was no love lost between those teams and Charlene knew their skating skills were better
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- Jan 11, 2014
I haven't posted in forever, but throwing in in my two cents. I've really loved G/F for years, and I blame Cizeron directly for stealing the bronze from them. I wish he stayed retired. (Then again it's really all Virtue and Moir's fault for being so greedy with the 2018 gold, stealing it from Cizeron in the first place. 
I was a big Cizeron fan throughout the first part of the career with Gabby and was happy in 2022 but would've rather they won in 2018. Then he could've come back in 2022 with someone else instead and then retired. Too late now!
(Of course, if he hadn't come back, who knows what really would've happened. For all we know the brits woulda got a bronze in that different world.)
But mainly, I wanted to document for myself how small a gap there was between a perfect score and what C/FB got. It took some prompting to get Copilot to do the correct math for me (it first said the maximum score was between 140 and 145 which is a range and not a maximum so sheesh). I had to tell it to go individually with each element and give all 5s and maximum levels and 10s, etc. and it finally said the maximum free dance score this year was 144.51 based on a maximum TES of 84.51 / PCS 60. They got a 77.06 and 58.58. That's just ridiculous. I mean if everyone is getting 5 GOEs all the time, is it really a 5? It's like giving everyone in your class As. Meh.
I think ice dancing should just go back to 6.0s and let it be. There's too much subjectivity in this all. Be honest and let them make it up like in the past.
And for whoever said now ice dancing is dead. No, it was already dead. It died in 1998 when Grishuk Platov almost fell and won gold. Still annoyed about that mess and I love bringing it up.
Ok, back to probably not posting for a few years.
I was a big Cizeron fan throughout the first part of the career with Gabby and was happy in 2022 but would've rather they won in 2018. Then he could've come back in 2022 with someone else instead and then retired. Too late now!(Of course, if he hadn't come back, who knows what really would've happened. For all we know the brits woulda got a bronze in that different world.)
But mainly, I wanted to document for myself how small a gap there was between a perfect score and what C/FB got. It took some prompting to get Copilot to do the correct math for me (it first said the maximum score was between 140 and 145 which is a range and not a maximum so sheesh). I had to tell it to go individually with each element and give all 5s and maximum levels and 10s, etc. and it finally said the maximum free dance score this year was 144.51 based on a maximum TES of 84.51 / PCS 60. They got a 77.06 and 58.58. That's just ridiculous. I mean if everyone is getting 5 GOEs all the time, is it really a 5? It's like giving everyone in your class As. Meh.
I think ice dancing should just go back to 6.0s and let it be. There's too much subjectivity in this all. Be honest and let them make it up like in the past.
And for whoever said now ice dancing is dead. No, it was already dead. It died in 1998 when Grishuk Platov almost fell and won gold. Still annoyed about that mess and I love bringing it up.
Ok, back to probably not posting for a few years.
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- Feb 24, 2012
I was so excited for them to win the bronze but on both skates they were underscored. They should have definitely won the FD. I appreciate this program has not served them well until now this year. But they had the moment. CB program well had Madi and her skirt and make up but did not have the au thenticity of the Canadians. And in manyways not the crispness I expected! But technically they deserved more and artisitically - they should have won the FD easily. Maybe 138 or 139, CB 135 and the French 131 o r 132
I think the result was wrong. It wasn’t just Maddie / Evan. That was the icing. There were a few couples that I thought were underscored. The event had wonky judging. There have been complaints about Piper / Paul being underscored all season. If you think about it, that’s how you hide scoring preferences and anomalies. It was obvious in ‘02 because it was only the top two. The big elephant in the room is that this is ice dance. The way it’s talked about is that it’s hard to rise — slow progress, couples paying their dues, waiting their turn. That seems immune to flukes— which do happen. In other disciplines, a team / individual rising out of no where and experiencing unprecedented success in less than a year would be a fluke. Money doesn’t necessarily have to change hands to rig results. You can look the other way because of threats and / or political reasons. This is all speculation, short of a whistleblower, we’ll never know. The speculation is, however justified.
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- Dec 4, 2004
Maddie talked about the costume this morning on NBC Today. They definately had to make changes and "lighten it up"
I agree but on your last point Z/K have leapfrogged over a number of teams this year and just wound up top five (would have been six but for the Brits-). They are sort of anomalous but in a rare instance... maybe a singular one for they really are good.
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- Dec 4, 2004
Not speculation. When the French judge in the pairs scandle confessed to Oly judge Jon Jackson, she said, if I remember his book correctly, "You dont KNOW what they can do to you!" She was obviously scared....
Before the NBC interview this morning of C/B and their moms, NBC reported the French made "a few" mistakes, while saying C/B had a "Near Perfect" performance. The wording was obviously very carefully chosen. As far as the next olys, of course they were asked about it. Maddie is very good at choosing words...she alluded that its possible "in some capacity".
Did FB/C getting absurdly high GOEs yesterday? Of course they did. But so had the top teams in this discipline for years, with Chock/Bates being the biggest beneficiaries. Judges give +5s way too easily in that discipline. Chock/Bates had 31 +5 GOEs yesterday (out of 81 individual grades from the judges). FB/C had even more. The component scores are also out of control, both of these teams were just barely below the theoretical max of 60 and got multiple 10s for presentation.
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