2026 Olympics: Free Dance

[Demandred]

No, it is not fine even in theory. It gives much more power to subjectivity and/or manipulating the scores. -3/+3 scale is much more intuitive as such than -5/+5, and the latter leaves much more space for random or completely subjective assignment oof points.

I don't see how a -3/+3 scale is more intiutive a -5/+5 one.

I want to be more of a gap between a perfectly executed element than a poorly done one, I don't think this is that unreasonable. Under the -3/+3 scale you got more points for a quad/3A with a fall than for an almost perfect triple/2A which for me was absurd.

Of course the judges can abuse the system, but it's not like there were fewer judging controversies back when the -3/+3 scale was used. Figure skating is a judged sport, if the judges really want to place someone at a specific place, they can always do it.

 

[el henry]

Kaori Sakamoto have to give lessons/classes to the skaters how not to feel entitled to win when one have not won.

And so could Madi and Evan, who have been as classy as Kaori throughout this entire mess.

Entitled is the last word I would apply to them, having watched their interviews and read their statements. And of course, if speaking out respectfully about judging is wrong, are Piper and Paul entitled? (answer: I don't think so. )

 

[4everchan]

And so could Madi and Evan, who have been as classy as Kaori throughout this entire mess.

Entitled is the last word I would apply to them, having watched their interviews and read their statements. And of course, if speaking out respectfully about judging is wrong, are Piper and Paul entitled? (answer: I don't think so. )

I think some fans are quickly judging athletes based on the spur of the moment reactions.
I think it's normal to be upset when the goal was gold and it doesn't happen.
However, in sport, you win some, you lose some. The problem is probably that in ice dance, there is less movement than in other sports... because of the nature of its judging. It's really a problem in the sport. Why are Emilea and Vadym making huge progress and passing all the other American teams ? Is it only talent and skills ? I have no horse in that US National race but what are the Browns fans saying about this ? What are CPom, Green Parsons fans saying about this ? Etc... Ice dance is a wonderful sport. I love watching it but frankly, the judging and ranking of teams bring more doubts than answers.

Kudos to Piper and Paul, let's not forget FBC also complained, to have voiced their problem with the judging. They did it not in a personal matter by the way. They questioned the fact that the technical panel had been given extremely low levels to everyone at some events while it wasn't the case at other events, etc. They didn't say judge number 1 for (insert country where baguettes are carried under the arm) screwed us. (I am not saying that Madi and Evan went that route, fans did) It's a very different stance. The tech panel is hired by the ISU. Judges are volunteers. What Piper and Paul did was far from entitlement. Thank you for recognizing this. It could have completely compromised their Olympics. And, if ever they keep competing, they may face the same tech panelists and be screwed over for whistle blowing. I will call it that because I do believe that it needed to be said. And perhaps, this is actually what has triggered so much scrutiny over the Olympic judging. Piper's rant made it to the media. French CBC, before the Free Dance had mentioned the British and French judges getting some attention.

So, it's up to the ISU now, to do something better about the judging system. If they want their fans to keep interest, they need to regain their trust. I love ice dance but not so much its judging. I focus on the performances and not so much the results... I mean, how is my favourite LALA in like 10th place ? Really ? Are you serious ?

 

[skatesofgold]

No, I haven't. I know very well the difference between team and individual events. It's you failed to get the point I am making here- CoP is wrong. It allows the minority to beat majority by manipulating the score. In what other sport it happens? None. It never happened in FS either, that skaters with 5 first places didn't win. Now it happened and it will happen again.

Snowboarding has a confusing system as well because I think there is some subjectivity with style. I don't know enough to describe the issues in detail, though.

 

[niks]

C/B being horribly overscored the last three years doesn't cancel out egregious judging in favour of their rivals at this event.

This is true, but I can't help it but feeling a strong dislike for the hypocrisy and entitlement of now going up in arms and claiming unfairness for those who greatly benefited from a political push and judging bias for years (even winning a World Championship with a fall, as has been reminded here) because just for once the bias may have fallen against them. As you and others have said, if this is the wronged party, then what can possibly be said about others who suffered that unfairness against them for basically an entire cycle? Very little sympathy here to be honest

 

[bramweld]

Keep it simple, if your country is in medal position after the RD, you cannot judge the FD. Period. If collusion is suspected and confirmed, you will be banned for 5 years in the first instance; if there is a repeat offence, you will be banned for life.

 

[ChiGal]

Keep it simple, if your country is in medal position after the RD, you cannot judge the FD. Period. If collusion is suspected and confirmed, you will be banned for 5 years in the first instance; if there is a repeat offence, you will be banned for life.

This rule should be across all skating disciplines. You should not get to judge your own country's skaters. Have an alternate judge ready to fill in.

 

[NewLook]

Actually at last GPF C/B won RD having 4 first places and 5 second.

And their opponents had 5 first and 4 second? No, they didn't. Or you pretend that you can't read and on purpose giving an invalid argument since you don't have a valid one.

 

[museksk8r]

Why are Emilea and Vadym making huge progress and passing all the other American teams ? Is it only talent and skills ? I have no horse in that US National race but what are the Browns fans saying about this ? What are CPom, Green Parsons fans saying about this ?

A perfect storm allowed Z/K to make the huge progress they did this season. They came out on the attack, kept their feet on the gas and never looked back, and skated so clean throughout the season while other US teams either entered the Olympic season unprepared (C/P; S/S), injured (Gr/Pa), or made many mistakes (S/S; B/B; B/S; Gr/Pa; C/P) throughout the season. Other international teams have also made mistakes this season while Z/K have been clean and this consistency has allowed them to scale heights thought unimaginable just last season. Z/K didn’t come out of nowhere though; they were very much in the conversation to make last season’s World team finishing 3rd in the RD, but mistakes were made in their Nationals FD and Gr/Pa were assigned Worlds over them. No doubt that lit a flame under them for the Olympic season to not let that happen to them again! They clearly worked their tails off doing QUADRUPLE run-throughs to prepare for the Olympic season, so that they could always rely on autopilot, even if fatigue sets in during pressure situations. Their programs and packaging were on point from go this season and all their preparation and consistency led to this top 5 at the Olympics; again, along with help from other teams who were messy (F/G). I understand how it appears they have had a meteoric rise this season, but it is fully deserved, IMO.

 

[4everchan]

A perfect storm allowed Z/K to make the huge progress they did this season. They came out on the attack, kept their feet on the gas and never looked back, and skated so clean throughout the season while other US teams either entered the Olympic season unprepared (C/P), injured (Gr/Pa), or made many mistakes (B/B; B/S; Gr/Pa; C/P) throughout the season. Other international teams have also made mistakes this season while Z/K have been clean and this consistency has allowed them to scale heights thought unimaginable just last season. Z/K didn’t come out of nowhere though; they were very much in the conversation to make last season’s World team finishing 3rd in the RD, but mistakes were made in their Nationals FD and Gr/Pa were assigned Worlds over them. No doubt that lit a flame under them for the Olympic season to not let that happen to them again! They clearly worked their tails off doing QUADRUPLE run-throughs to prepare for the Olympic season, so that they could always rely on autopilot, even if fatigue sets in during pressure situations. Their programs and packaging were on point from go this season and all their preparation and consistency led to this top 5 at the Olympics, again, along with help from other teams who were messy (F/G). I understand how it appears they have had a meteoric rise this season, but it is fully deserved, IMO.

Sure and aware of their consistency but I find it weird that consistency is synonym to rising in the rankings. Each competition should be judged independently and consistent skaters shouldn't start with a head start. Also. Is consistency synonym of quality? Not necessarily. I'm not talking about them but an average team could also be extremely consistent without being good enough for medals.... So it always bugs me when skaters get rewarded for consistency

 

[ManyCairns]

I think consistency used in this context is shorthand for consistently outstanding. When you are that good over and over and over, it's not an anomaly and becomes something the judges can't ignore and are comfortable rewarding.

 

[ladyjane]

And their opponents had 5 first and 4 second? No, they didn't. Or you pretend that you can't read and on purpose giving an invalid argument since you don't have a valid one.

I thought we didn't work with ordinals anymore, but with points.

 

[4everchan]

I think consistency used in this context is shorthand for consistently outstanding. When you are that good over and over and over, it's not an anomaly and becomes something the judges can't ignore and are comfortable rewarding.

I like Z/K. I just think that there are other very very good teams. It's very hard for me to see how much better they are than some of these other teams who placed just below them at the games (teams from 6-10 are equally outstanding)

 

[IceDancingQueen]

It's adorable that she really thinks that happens. (Edited because I am a grammar nerd. Italics and bolding are my own)

The thing is - I believe this does happen. I don’t think her child had any reason to lie her. We talked a lot about all of the exams and qualifications that judges need to go through. I think the issue is that there is a very small pool of judges that can judge at this level, so inevitably natural biases/preferences (whether that be for certain nations or certain styles of skating) impact the scores given but not enough that they seem completely erroneous. The monitoring system that judges have to go through after each competition is probably what needs to be changed cause clearly it’s not picking up where those biases are coming through, whether they are subtle or obvious.

 

[readernick]

For judging to really be fair, the judges would need to be paid professionals who are constantly trained, tested, and monitored for bias. This is what gymnastics did to improve their previously very very biased judging( not that their judging system is perfect now either but it's better) . Panels would also need to be separated by PCS and GOE and judges should have to defend their scores after the event using the judging rubric. But, this would cost a significant amount of money and so it's really just a pipe dream.

 

[TontoK]

Kaori Sakamoto have to give lessons/classes to the skaters how not to feel entitled to win when one have not won.

Entitled? Really?

However, if you want to make this a contest about likeability, then let's get it on.

I can bring some heat to that discussion.

 

[Sackie]

So the French Judge marked the French team higher by 8 points. At the GPF the USA judge marked C/B 9 points higher then the French.

 

[TontoK]

So the French Judge marked the French team higher by 8 points. At the GPF the USA judge marked C/B 9 points higher then the French.

Didn't the French have a fall in that event? Or some other disastrous mistake?

I honestly don't remember. But it certainly wasn't a close competition.

 

[NanaPat]

This is a great analysis. Also, the highest and lowest scores for a programme are discounted, so the French judge didn't even have any say!

The discarding is done element-by-element, not overall. The French judge's marks may very well have been included on some elements (or be a match for an excluded value). You can see what marks were discarded on Skating Scores. It would be really difficult to calculate what the result would be if one or more judges weren't there. You would have to exclude those judges, then exclude the remaining top and bottom marks and re-calculate everything element-by-element. It may be possible for someone with a paid subscription to Skating Scores and a lot of time and skill to do.

Or maybe rather than excluding judges, their marks should be replaced by an "average" score on each element. But that begs the question of "which average" - before or after the discarding process.

 

[skatesofgold]

Didn't the French have a fall in that event? Or some other disastrous mistake?

I honestly don't remember. But it certainly wasn't a close competition.

Yes, the French had 2 points in deductions: an extended lift and a fall.