2026 Olympics: Free Dance

[yelyoh]

For judging to really be fair, the judges would need to be paid professionals who are constantly trained, tested, and monitored for bias. This is what gymnastics did to improve their previously very very biased judging( not that their judging system is perfect now either but it's better) . Panels would also need to be separated by PCS and GOE and judges should have to defend their scores after the event using the judging rubric. But, this would cost a significant amount of money and so it's really just a pipe dream.

I've been writing on here for years about the need for seperate panels for tech and component scores. And ITA about the rest.

 

[KevinThiem]

There is no "overwhelming consensus". Plenty of people feel the French team deserved to win.

This team deserved to be scored many points in the lead if you take that performance and remove the couple small errors. So instead of winning by many points, they won by 1 point. They really were the class of the field. This quaddrenial was the weakest ever for Ice Dance, so it's no surprise that the best male ice dancer ever can pair up with someone who was top 5 in the world and they can manage to become the best team in just 1 year.


He's an excellent performer and served a ton of face in the RD at this competition. He literally managed to out-gay Lewis Gibson in that performance.



There have been plenty of great Paso Doble's in Ice Dance. Evan Bates simply does not have the ability to be fully convincing in this kind of expression.

oh, okay -- I'm not familiar enough with ice dancing programs to conjure one up. Thanks for the analysis.

 

[slider11]

Dropping the high and low set of marks, in my opinion, is the best way to counter an unfair pull, one way or another. This competition was close, incredibly close. I do think that judges should be held accountable by the ISU. I think the comment about not allowing judges who are country-aligned with the top 3-5 teams after the RD is a plausible option for the ISU to consider. I also think ISU leadership should scrutinize judging that cannot be reasonably defended and eliminate those judges from future events. I know those rules are there, they just need to be enforced.

When all is said and done, I don't think eliminating the French and US judge would have changed the result- maybe it would have been even closer -but the results the same.

 

[Artistry]

Yes, the highest and lowest scores get dropped. The media narrative about a single French judge "rigging" the result (as was the case in the 2002 Olympics in favour of the Russian pair team)

Yes, the highest and lowest scores get dropped. The media narrative about a single French judge "rigging" the result (as was the case in the 2002 Olympics in favour of the Russian pair team) is not applicable here.

Thank you. But I just read on NBC yesterday that without the French judge’s marks C/B would have won. So can someone else answer for sure and quote a source or a document? Did it get dropped or not? Confused.

 

[Artistry]

Keep it simple, if your country is in medal position after the RD, you cannot judge the FD. Period. If collusion is suspected and confirmed, you will be banned for 5 years in the first instance; if there is a repeat offence, you will be banned for life.

Why wasn’t that done after 2002? Removing the nation’s judge from FD. I think all the above simple and strong and should be implimented.

 

[NanaPat]

Thank you. But I just read on NBC yesterday that without the French judge’s marks C/B would have won. So can someone else answer for sure and quote a source or a document? Did it get dropped or not? Confused.

The dropping is done element-by-element, so some of the French judge's marks may have been dropped, some of them be equal to a marrk that got dropped, and some retained. Also, if you re-do everything without using the French judge's marks, you should also throw out the US judges marks.

I saw a chart that seemed to indicate that the French would have won even if the French judge's marks were excluded. But I don't think it took into account the fact that high and low marks are already excluded, but on an element by element basis. It just took the total mark for each judge.

With high and low marks excluded, one judge can't exert a huge amount of influence over the marks. You need two judges, one to be excluded and another to be not quite as biased, so be included. Also, a single judge can exert more influence by scoring the perceived opponent very low (marks to be dropped, of course). But no judge here put either of the top two teams in a very low place.

I would not place any credence in anything NBC says.

I think there are some systematic problems in ice dance judging: national bias, plus the tendency for a team to become "judges pets" and be treated generously no matter what they do (reputation judging). Neither one is new or confined to the French team. Chock and Bates themselves benefitted from it for several years.

 

[Blackmirage]

In an ideal World the French team should win by 5-6 points, with the small errors by 4-5. Because the ISU wanted to create "excitement" and "interest", the difference in points was MUCH less than the difference in skating. No other couple was even close to create emotional impact with their great techique than Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron and Gilles/Poirier, the French being better with a large margin. The rightfull Bronze should go to Zhingas/Kolesnik because of their fantastic talent and unlimited spirit and energy.
The only thing that we will remember about Chock/Bates program is the skirt, and how woodden Bates was with a worried expression contrasting Chock's constant stiring and empress-like expression hiding weaknesses.

 

[Alfa]

The dropping is done element-by-element, so some of the French judge's marks may have been dropped, some of them be equal to a marrk that got dropped, and some retained. Also, if you re-do everything without using the French judge's marks, you should also throw out the US judges marks.

I saw a chart that seemed to indicate that the French would have won even if the French judge's marks were excluded. But I don't think it took into account the fact that high and low marks are already excluded, but on an element by element basis. It just took the total mark for each judge.

With high and low marks excluded, one judge can't exert a huge amount of influence over the marks. You need two judges, one to be excluded and another to be not quite as biased, so be included. Also, a single judge can exert more influence by scoring the perceived opponent very low (marks to be dropped, of course). But no judge here put either of the top two teams in a very low place.

I would not place any credence in anything NBC says.

I think there are some systematic problems in ice dance judging: national bias, plus the tendency for a team to become "judges pets" and be treated generously no matter what they do (reputation judging). Neither one is new or confined to the French team. Chock and Bates themselves benefitted from it for several years.

This is definitely the issues and why I'm upset with the scoring. The judges are hypocrites. They make Chock and Bates the standout ice dance couple of the quad, they break the world record, and then the judges place them second. Of course a lot of us are like wtf...the ice dance judging really is corrupt and this Olympics has made it clear.

As much as I adore FB/C, I don't know if giving them the gold was necessarily a good thing, and I can't get over the botched twizzle and other errors.

 

[Alfa]

In an ideal World the French team should win by 5-6 points, with the small errors by 4-5. Because the ISU wanted to create "excitement" and "interest", the difference in points was MUCH less than the difference in skating. No other couple was even close to create emotional impact with their great techique than Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron and Gilles/Poirier, the French being better with a large margin. The rightfull Bronze should go to Zhingas/Kolesnik because of their fantastic talent and unlimited spirit and energy.
The only thing that we will remember about Chock/Bates program is the skirt, and how woodden Bates was with a worried expression contrasting Chock's constant stiring and empress-like expression hiding weaknesses.

I think you need to come back to reality

 

[LeReveur]

I would not place any credence in anything NBC says.

Sad but mostly the right way to treat many statements from NBC, especially about American athletes and how they are judged...
The level of intelligence NBC Sports has shown through the years is not what it should be, neither in skating nor in tennis.

 

[Cindy1983]

I definitely don’t think they should’ve dropped it. There were shenanigans going on. There’s no way to stamp out these judging issues unless everything comes out in the open. We don't know what went on behind the scenes. I just hope they weren’t threatened. On thing I do know is The Powers That Be don’t want another SLC 2002. The question is, would they allow an unfair result to stand? I think they’re that invested in putting a false veneer on the sport that they would.

I don’t understand where the person who said the French team would’ve been way ahead of the Americans got that idea. The problem with dropping the inquiry is that haters can come out with unjustified criticism for the Americans. Some of it’ s gonna be really petty, too. Just watch.

 

[Alfa]

So is there an update to the inquiry to investigate the French judge?

 

[museksk8r]

So is there an update to the inquiry to investigate the French judge?

The ISU defended all the results and US Figure Skating did not appeal the ruling. https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/...ating-appeal-madison-chock-evan-bates-silver/

I believe USFSA didn’t appeal the ice dance results because they feared retaliation against Ilia Malinin’s opportunity at an individual Olympic gold medal (well, we know how that turned out) as well as retaliation against the 3 American women’s opportunities at individual Olympic medals.

Cheating in this sport is never going to change! The larger story is the Georgian judge in the pairs FS who marked a messy M/B less than 1 point under a flawless M/K to ensure the Georgians win silver over the Germans H/V. The UZB judge was also in on the fix. Their scores for M/B are over 3 points more than any other judge on the panel and H/V lost the silver by only 2.66 points even though they had a 5 point lead after the SP. Corruption at its worst!

 

[lariko]

Replay Lounges have full AI analysis on bias in women, dance and pairs. Very thorough. Good read. Check it out if interested.

 

[gsk8]

Hi all!

You can compare, analyze, critique, go more in depth, discuss future, etc. in the Olympic Ice Dance Replay Lounge!