Replay Lounge 2026 Olympics | Women
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Replay Lounge Women
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Here is full re-play: https://www.youtube.com/live/rmjdM13lZME?is=sMxCtKC7WtlcZq2-
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This is how I felt for a long time when Michelle Kwan failed to win the gold-5x World Champion, 9x US Champ. World Jr gold GP Gold etc.
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- Jan 25, 2013
5th place? Who would you have beating her? Even if you lowered her PCS (which I think was too high, more like 70-72 - but still above 70... not like she fell or didn't deliver the performance). And I don't get lowering all her GOE by +1 (not to mention, others were given generous GOE too - like Nakai's 3A with a clear air-lean and def not effortless did not deserve +3s - she seemed to have a tendency to land her axels not on a clear outside edge but shift to a flat/inside edge to stabilize like in the 3Z+2A+2A)? Though I suppose you'd crunch the math.
Your point is also moot as I also don't think every skater with less reputation COULD give Kaori's exact same performance with the same speed amplitude or flow.
Also not completely stupid that a person's score doesn't fluctuate because of not doing a combination when the rules state (since pre-IJS) that if you repeat a jump it must be in combination. That's figure skating 101, and yes, skaters should be penalized for not adhering to that - so while a 1T isn't hugely difficult, it avoids the penalty of repeated a jump not in combination.
I'm guessing that poster has the same order as me for the LP: 1. Nakai 2. Glenn 3. Chiba 4. Liu 5. Sakamoto
I just had Ami winning the PE component, and felt the calls were unjustified (especially the spin). I do think her jumps can end up with less credit than given. Her basic skating deserved credit too, and the 3A made up for her mistake.
Amber just went out and delivered.
Mone won the PCS for me overall.
Alysa gave a lively performance, but her basic skating is the weakest of these five, and I had her 3Lz+3T< and the aforementioned 2T< after the 2A.
Kaori won SS, but her spins were only ahead of Glenn's for me, and her performance was nothing special IMO. And then there was the +REP.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Always missing the point.
1T is not a worthwhile combination. Yes skaters should have to do their repeated jump in combo, but adding a 1T shouldn't be worth over 2 points. If the scoring system had less penalty for "REP" but gave bonuses based on difficulty to jump combinations, then the 1T would no longer be giving so many points in these situations. And if the scoring system also logically downgraded "overflow" jumps, instead of completely invalidating them, then nobody would ever have to do a 1T in fear of "doing too many 2T's".
I never said every skater could. But plenty of people with great speed and skating skills have been scored far lower, and the overall performance and artistry she displayed did not deserve such high marks. Nobody would question it at all if she scored much lower, had she gone into the competition as a newcomer and Japan's "3rd ranked" lady. And for example Kaori was getting an 'e' on her Lutz at 2021 Worlds, but as soon as she became the decided #1 Japanese lady the following season, those calls suddenly never went past '!' ever again, despite many of her Lutzes having the same amount edge issue.
I would put Liu 2nd in the LP, but yes those are the people who Sakamoto easily could have been scored behind.
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- Apr 17, 2022
I have posted my thoughts and feeling in the competition thread during the live event already, but I just want to add a bit more here after my observation in the last few days.
As gutted as I am that Kaori missed the gold due to 1 mistake, the huge positive impact of Alysa winning the OGM can't be denied.
I'm seeing media everywhere (not just skating media) posting about her story - how she came back on her own terms, how she chose joy over results, and how positive her relationship with food now. I'm seeing friends who aren't skating fans getting inspired by Alysa's story and attitude.
This is exactly the kind of publicity and narrative the sport really needs right now
Heck, she might even save some lives - there might be young athletes out there realising "wow, so I don't need to go on restrictive diets or overtrain or have miserable life to win the Olympics" and it may make all the difference
As gutted as I am that Kaori missed the gold due to 1 mistake, the huge positive impact of Alysa winning the OGM can't be denied.
I'm seeing media everywhere (not just skating media) posting about her story - how she came back on her own terms, how she chose joy over results, and how positive her relationship with food now. I'm seeing friends who aren't skating fans getting inspired by Alysa's story and attitude.
This is exactly the kind of publicity and narrative the sport really needs right now
Heck, she might even save some lives - there might be young athletes out there realising "wow, so I don't need to go on restrictive diets or overtrain or have miserable life to win the Olympics" and it may make all the difference
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Never ever again, eh? Wrong. She got an "e" call in her FS at 2024 Worlds.
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Sadly, her win is also being extremely politicized by all ends of the political spectrum, and people are using it to make deeply racist comments towards Eileen Gu...I have posted my thoughts and feeling in the competition thread during the live event already, but I just want to add a bit more here after my observation in the last few days.
As gutted as I am that Kaori missed the gold due to 1 mistake, the huge positive impact of Alysa winning the OGM can't be denied.
I'm seeing media everywhere (not just skating media) posting about her story - how she came back on her own terms, how she chose joy over results, and how positive her relationship with food now. I'm seeing friends who aren't skating fans getting inspired by Alysa's story and attitude.
This is exactly the kind of publicity and narrative the sport really needs right now
Heck, she might even save some lives - there might be young athletes out there realising "wow, so I don't need to go on restrictive diets or overtrain or have miserable life to win the Olympics" and it may make all the difference
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
1 time in 5 years, and look at the corresponding reaction from the judges. They didn't take as much as they normally do.
^ But here is where I call to question what you're "supposed" to give for an "e". For me, it is individual. If an "e" is a flaw, then yes, it should be marked as one? However, I don't think a lot of us and even the judges take into consideration all other aspects of ... a jump.
i.e. right here, Sakamoto enters her lutz with more speed than most, has higher amplitude than most, travels farther across the ice than most, and lands with more speed than most. So that means that she is to get the same -2s as someone else who also has an "e", but enters with less speed, perhaps has poor posture heading in, maybe has lower height, lower distance, a flawed air position, and maybe a glitchier landing? They both receive -2? She is supposed to get the same-ish mark as someone who 2 foots or puts a hand down or has a turn-out? I don't think so. Not for me.
There is a huge difference between -5 (a failed element) and +5 (something utterly perfect). And to be honest, I'll take someone's flawed, but beautiful jump over a "correct edge" but has inferior mechanics (speed, height, length, position, control) any day of the week. To me, poor aspects of an otherwise correct jump matters a lot.
And so, in talking Sakamoto at the moment, I think her GOEs, on the whole, are correct and shouldn't be dinged as much as some others. And that goes for anyone in any discipline with any element.
i.e. right here, Sakamoto enters her lutz with more speed than most, has higher amplitude than most, travels farther across the ice than most, and lands with more speed than most. So that means that she is to get the same -2s as someone else who also has an "e", but enters with less speed, perhaps has poor posture heading in, maybe has lower height, lower distance, a flawed air position, and maybe a glitchier landing? They both receive -2? She is supposed to get the same-ish mark as someone who 2 foots or puts a hand down or has a turn-out? I don't think so. Not for me.
There is a huge difference between -5 (a failed element) and +5 (something utterly perfect). And to be honest, I'll take someone's flawed, but beautiful jump over a "correct edge" but has inferior mechanics (speed, height, length, position, control) any day of the week. To me, poor aspects of an otherwise correct jump matters a lot.
And so, in talking Sakamoto at the moment, I think her GOEs, on the whole, are correct and shouldn't be dinged as much as some others. And that goes for anyone in any discipline with any element.
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- Jul 26, 2003
My second favorite after 1988!
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- Jan 25, 2013
Another thing to note is that she was winning 2024 Worlds no question. So there was no NEED to call her on an “e”, but the tech caller did anyways. (And before we go there, if Hendrickx or Lee or Levito had skated clean and matched their PBs they most likely wouldn’t have beat Sakamoto). Also this was Worlds and not some insignificant competition where she received the e deduction.
Also worth noting that there have been competitions where Sakamoto wasn’t get edge calls like Worlds 2023 (some instances where she should have - though some competitions had lenient tech callers), and since those “clean” competitions, in several instances she has been called on ! … including in both of her SPs at these Olympics, which did cost her a couple points, and a q call in her team FS. So it’s not like she was such a popular de facto fave that she was entirely immune from tech calls.
Also regarding one e call in 5 years (still proving you wrong, sorry about it), do you not think she made any effort to try to improve her lutz edge in 5 years, with varying success? Do you not think skaters should be judged based on the day of and not just be given e calls because they used to be a flutzer? Kaori still flips to the inside edge but like Asada she has made tangible efforts to try to hold the outside edge and improve the entry edge (without doing something drastic like overhauling their technique).
Do I think she’s overscored on PCS? Yes, though she has made enough improvements and has the program composition/presentstion now to clear 70, IMO. But I don’t blindly just say she should get slapped with an e and then chalk up her success as the reason why she doesn’t get many e calls anymore - even though she still gets scrutinized way more than previous flutzers who achieved success and then suddenly stopped getting calls. She’s worked to improve that, and has not just settled with the same layout or same ole way of doing things. Even though with a Russian-free field she could coast instead of push herself. That’s what impresses me about her and why many admire her and felt for her when she didn’t win gold.
Also worth noting that there have been competitions where Sakamoto wasn’t get edge calls like Worlds 2023 (some instances where she should have - though some competitions had lenient tech callers), and since those “clean” competitions, in several instances she has been called on ! … including in both of her SPs at these Olympics, which did cost her a couple points, and a q call in her team FS. So it’s not like she was such a popular de facto fave that she was entirely immune from tech calls.
Also regarding one e call in 5 years (still proving you wrong, sorry about it), do you not think she made any effort to try to improve her lutz edge in 5 years, with varying success? Do you not think skaters should be judged based on the day of and not just be given e calls because they used to be a flutzer? Kaori still flips to the inside edge but like Asada she has made tangible efforts to try to hold the outside edge and improve the entry edge (without doing something drastic like overhauling their technique).
Do I think she’s overscored on PCS? Yes, though she has made enough improvements and has the program composition/presentstion now to clear 70, IMO. But I don’t blindly just say she should get slapped with an e and then chalk up her success as the reason why she doesn’t get many e calls anymore - even though she still gets scrutinized way more than previous flutzers who achieved success and then suddenly stopped getting calls. She’s worked to improve that, and has not just settled with the same layout or same ole way of doing things. Even though with a Russian-free field she could coast instead of push herself. That’s what impresses me about her and why many admire her and felt for her when she didn’t win gold.
Er... Sakamoto's Lutz isn't exceptional on any quality.
Although, jumping off that, it's actually Jia Shin's Lutz that has all the qualities you're talking about here - who also doesn't have a perfect Lutz edge (and escaped a call at these Olympics, too).
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This is not true, even if someone is winning, there is definitely a "need" to call errors. It's simply being fair.
That said, while this is not the point being made (which is simply that a skater who jumps similarly but doesn't have Kaori's reputation would never get away with things), I do think Kaori probably doesn't deserve full 'e' calls any longer, and probably didn't even in the 2023-24 season.
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- Jan 25, 2013
What I mean is, if she was SUCH a favourite and skated a lights out program, the temptation would be to just green light all her jumping passes. But the panel still scrutinized her, and (correctly) gave it an e call. The point was being made that because Sakamoto is the putatitive Japanese #1, she's immune from calls. I would actually say she is one of the most tech called (e/!/q/<) skaters. And this Olympics she wasn't immune from tech calls in spite of being the Japanese #1 and 3-time World champion. Neither was Alysa Liu, who also got ! calls too.
Yes, reputation judging was still a thing in the PCS department, but I do find that as far as calls went, the tech panel treated everyone similarly whereas in the past certain skaters (usually Russians) would get a slide, and if they landed their content, the tech panel wouldn't really bother to scrutinize or flag tech issues.
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- Sep 14, 2008
Of course she made an effort, but that has nothing to do with the fact that quite a few of her lutzes after 2021 were no better than how she did it previously, yet she stopped being judged as harshly on it.
Jumps with equal or better overall quality than Kaori's have received a bigger penalty for the 'e'. People like Keegan Messing do a big, clean 3Flip and have been given -3's from judges just because of the call.
In terms of how things "should" be scored, if Brian Joubert were competing these days, that 3Flip of his would deserve lots of +GOE, regardless of the 'e' call. It was the best Flip jump ever, aside from being on an outside takeoff edge. No pre-rotation, massive amplitude, explosive off the ice, great body position, fully rotated way before landing, and swish landings.
Edge and < calls should have nothing to do with GOE in the first place, they should simply be a base value reduction. GOE is supposed to be about the qualities of the jump itself; it becomes impossible to give an accurate GOE grade if you are slotting external factors like this into the GOE. Like for example if you're supposed to give 2 less GOE to an 'e' jump and someone steps out of the jump, now you're already down to the maximum -5 GOE possible. So when someone does an actual -5 GOE quality jump (step out and hands down), they are now receiving the same score as the person who had less of a landing mistake.
