Concerned About Irina's Health for Olympics

[rigel434]

Euturpe, are you basing that on how Irina looked or did you have some other source? What you wrote is plausible, but I follow Irina closely and don't recall reading that.

The good news on Irina's condition is that, according to a study

Clinical remission was obtained in 91.5%; 22 (25.6%) patients relapsed. ... The long-term prognosis of CSS is good ... although most patients need low doses of oral corticosteroids for persistent asthma, even many years after clinical recovery from vasculitis.

Guillevin L, Cohen P, Gayraud M: Churg-Strauss syndrome. Clinical study and long-term follow-up of 96 patients. Medicine (Baltimore) 1999 Jan; 78(1): 26-37

- end quote -

So Irina can still live a long and healthy life and with her attitude and great medical care I expect that's exactly what she will do. But I'm sure her disease and living with her medication is a constant struggle and I have incredible admiration for how she handles all this with a big smile on her face.

 

[euterpe]

Yes, I base it on how she looks. I have known people on steroids and there is almost an immediate effect on the face, and on the body, too. Steroids cause the body to retain fluid and it is noticeable especially in the face, hands and legs.

From time to time, ABC/ESPN reruns interviews that were done with Irina at Worlds in Moscow (outdoors, where she is wearing that white wool hat and demonstrating her Biellmann). Her cheeks are full and puffy, almost like chipmunk cheeks, a sure sign that she was on steroids.

At her GP events this fall, Irina was slim and trim, and her face normal. She is either off prednisone altogether, or on very low dosage.

 

[JOHIO2]

Great thread, guys (and/or gals -- gotta be politically correct!)

Since Irina's illness is one I know virtually nothing about, how much like lupus is it? Is this something she will have to deal with the rest of her life? Is there other organ involvement like lupus? And how will the other stresses of life, like pregnancy/birth and death of family members and close friends affect her vasc.? How does vasc. figure into life span, etc.? Speaking of pregnancy -- is there a genetic aspect of this disease? Could it be a contributing factor in her mother's kidney disease?

I hope Irina manages to keep her disease under control, because she deserves another chance at the Olympics. For herself, if no other reason. OK, for ME 'cuz I like watching her and root for her. (duh! see avatar) Like Michelle, I just want her to get there and skate the best she can and be happy with her performance, no matter where it puts her numerically in the competition.

And, I will actually read any links you find that address these questions. Enquiring minds and all......

 

[JOHIO2]

OK, I went back and read the links. Considering how bad her disease could be, she has done magnificently. Part of that probably is because she was an athelete in good shape and getting regular medical supervision. If your Mom is on dialysis, you've got alot of motivation to take care of yourself. That I know from personal experience. Part is probably her own competitive attitude. Some disease isn't gonna beat me or prevent me from living my life! I work on that one, but Irina is the queen of positive attitude and motivation.

Too bad she had to develop such a difficult disease, but I am glad she fought back and has shared some of her fight with her fans. There are plenty of diseases around and if you've got one, it helps to know you're not alone.

 

[rigel434]

I'd note that Irina has her own link on the Churg-Strauss website:

http://www.cssassociation.org/oldnews/slutskaya.asp

It's a bit awkward in that Irina refuses to discuss her exact diagnosis, yet the Chicago Tribune reported about it and she's on the website for the disease. I wouldn't discuss it on this board except for the fact that it's already been reported in a major newspaper.

In spite of the scary diagnosis, I honestly believe that Irina is going to continue to beat this thing. With autoimmune diseases, so much depends on how well one's body reacts to the prednisone, and as others have noted on this thread, Irina is doing remarkably well on that score. A number of patients are able to stay in remission even without taking the prednisone, and hopefully Irina will be one of those people.

In the meantime, as a huge Irina fan, I hope she will get the respect she deserves for being the extraordinary person she is. As great a skater as she is, she's even more impressive as a person. Most people in her situation would be lying in a bed somewhere feeling sorry for themselves, not smiling and winning gold medals. I've never admired an athlete as much as I do Irina.

 

[Vash01]

Thanks to everyone for so much research on this topic. I knew nothing about this disease. It is hard to imagine living with it. I just hope Irina does not overdo anything, and stays healthy for the Olympics and worlds, and afterwards. Whether she wins the gold or not is relatively unimportant, at least to me. It seems she is skating for the love of it and it shows. I think it's that love for life that has helped her fight through this very difficult situation in her life.

Vash

 

[wvgal57]

Irina told journalists at the press conference event in Cup of China that they all knew her story well and to continue to focus on how she continues to battle is a bit boring. She wants to talk about the skating and she didn't feel it was fair to other skaters who should be getting attention as well.

There is also nothing new to report. She has CS, she's dealing, she is fighting on an everyday basis. She doesn't want to dwell on negativity and lives for today.

 

[Rgirl]

]....There is also nothing new to report. She has CS, she's dealing, she is fighting on an everyday basis. She doesn't want to dwell on negativity....

But we do!

JUST KIDDING!

Seriously, when it comes right down to it, medical experts in this field really don't know what can spur a flare of an inflammatory and/or autoimmune disease. When I heard Irina say, "Work, work, work...work" to infinity, having treated such patients whose diseases were never actually cured, just managed, and, at least from the research I've read and what I saw in patients, stress, physical or emotional, seemed to play a big role in relapses. So I said so.

Irina, OTOH, has the pluses and minuses of all this being her life. In the end, what she does is Irina's decision, as it should be.

Rgirl

 

[Hornblower]

Irina told journalists at the press conference event in Cup of China that they all knew her story well and to continue to focus on how she continues to battle is a bit boring. She wants to talk about the skating and she didn't feel it was fair to other skaters who should be getting attention as well.

There is also nothing new to report. She has CS, she's dealing, she is fighting on an everyday basis. She doesn't want to dwell on negativity and lives for today.

It appears that Irina has a good head on her shoulders. I cannot say the same for some of the alleged journalists who come out of the woodwork in Olympic years.

 

[Rgirl]

Post #6

Her condition is no doubt a serious one, but from the looks of her, it seems the doctors have found just the right medications to control the disease.
And I think her stress level should be fairly low compared to other seasons. I can't imagine what would worry her at this point (skating related) ... no one has even laid a glove on her this season. I would think most athletes would give anything to be going into the Olympics in this situation.

Whatever happens, I do wish her good health.

Hey, NYMKFan! Stress is also training, competing, and just plain being in a cold, poorly ventilated rink, which, from what I've heard, even rinks for the best are like.

However, my guess is that most people feel as you do, that "stress" is prmarily emotional, i.e., worry and being overwrought about work, family, Christmas, or such as from the death of a loved one. We used to have to say, "Emotional and mental stress is just as hard on the body as physical stress." Emotional and mental stress got so much coverage, people and their physicians eventually began to ignore virtually physical stress.

Example: For people with diseases that severely disrupt, and in some cases destroy, their "stress regulating neurochemical and neurohormonal regulatory systems," just having the light on in a room can be too much stress for them.

Fortunately, Irina is way, way at the other end of the spectrum. Still, she's really the only one holding up the ladies singles FS contingent of Russia. Sokolova made the GPF, but only because, IMO, Michelle and Sasha, had to withdraw from Skate America. Plus Irina's mother needs a kidney transplant, which Irina must pay for, cash on the operating table. Finding a compatible donor before her mother dies, the money, and just having your beloved mother so sick--I think we'd agree that's a pretty high level of stress, no?

But as you, or somebody said, perhaps being so sick with the vasculitis before it was diagnosed, going through the real hell of its first few days or weeks of treatment has prompted Irina to truly live "one day at a time." Still, Irina needs the money shows pay an OGM, endorsements in Russia might bring her, and who knows? With her vivacity, Irina might even get a US commercial endorsement or two. At least for figure skates, I would think.

I'm not trying to get on your case--not my MYMKFan!--bu as I said, I think health care workers, psychologists and psychiatrists, plus the media, have drilled the emotional part of stress into us so much that we forget about the physical side. Anyway, Iust wanted to make those points--in my usual wordy way, LOL.

Rgirl

 

[Rgirl]

wvgal57 #20

What a relief to finally see a balanced discussion regarding Irina's illness. It so sad that some would rather stoop to the she's juiced" rather than read up on this illness and the obstacles she faces.

You know, I started this thread as much to learn about what Churg Strauss Syndrome does in the case of an elite athlete as to try to finally get a lot of posts about how Prednisone is NOT an Arnold Schwarznegger, muscle and energy building, ANABOLIC steroid, but rather the OPPOSITE--a CATABOLIC steroid that will kick the hell out of you, especially on high doses--40-80mg/d (thanks Rigel) but even while taking standard, mainstream medicine stablizing doses.

Yet someone still posted on this thread, "I would like to know more about the treatment. If Prednisone is giving Irina all that energy, I want to get some too. God knows I need it."
I'll quote Rigel for the response:

Actually, it's doing just the opposite- Irina said in one interview that after the European Championships she was so tired she just retreated to her hotel room for a few days straight. Prednisone is saving Irina's life (her condition was generally fatal within a year before prednisone came along) but it's a tough drug with a lot of bad side effects.

Thankfully, however, now that we have prednisone the long-term prognosis for Irina's condition is good. Studies have shown it puts her disease (Churg-Strauss vasculitis) in remission in 90% of cases.

I hope the poster was joking, but given all the vitriol aimed at Irina implying that she's just using her "illness" with quotes as they put it, as an excuse to use "steroids," have loads of energy, and massacre every other ladies skater, perhaps we should think twice about joking at least about this much-misunderstood subject that just gives some posters an excuse to accuse Irina of cheating. JMO.

Rgirl

P.S. Lest we forget, Irina also has asthma and uses an inhaler, which also has either Prednisone or a steroid in the same category as Prednisone in it.

 

[Rgirl]

Post #10

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11230
Vasculitis is an inflammatory and autoimmune disease.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11230
.... Believe me, Prednisone only gives you energy the first 24-48 hours you take it and it must be in a very high dose, about 40mg/day, tapering down, depending on the disease and level of inflammation, starting the second day.....There is a chance that Irina may be on an extremely low dose of Prednisone, e.g., 1 or 2 mg/day or less in an attempt to ward off a recurrence of vasculitis. However, Irina would not be allowed to compete with any traces of Prednisone in her system even if it does nothing but interfere with her performance and reduce the inflammation from the vasculitis. At least that's how I understand the doping standards of the IOC.

Post #16

"However, Irina would not be allowed to compete with any traces of Prednisone in her system..."

She has gotten medical waiver from the skating federation to use it. That's how the Chicago Tribune broke the news about her having Churg-Strauss syndrome, they got a copy of a permission slip from her doctor in Moscow to allow her to use Prednisone.

"There is a chance that Irina may be on an extremely low dose of Prednisone, e.g., 1 or 2 mg/day or less in an attempt to ward off a recurrence of vasculitis."

. Google "Churg-Strauss" and you'll see that most people with it take prednisone indefinitely.

http://www.cssassociation.org/about_the_syndrome.asp#4

Once diagnosed with Churg-Strauss Syndrome (CSS), systemic steroids are usually the initial therapy. Prednisone, and Medrol are the most commonly used steroids for treatment. Initially, high doses of oral steroids (e.g. 40-80mg) are given in an attempt to get the disease into remission as quickly as possible. Once improvement is seen, the steroids are very slowly tapered down to a lower dose for maintenance. Much of the literature on CSS states that most people are able to completely wean off steroids. However, in our experience that seems to be more the exception than the rule. Most people seem to require a maintenance level of steroids indefinitely.

- end of quote -

The term "vasculits" might make you think of just an acute inflammation of the blood vessels, but it's a chronic autoimmune condition, similar to lupus.[/quote] Great post, Rigel434, and thank you for posting your comments in both Posts #3, #8, #14, #16, #21, and #25; the links to the Boston Globe article from last March and the summation article on Churg-Strauss Syndrome (CSS); and comments from the article. Plus it's a very succinct account of CSS, what it is, what it does to those who get it, and its most common treatments. FAR more succinct than I would have ever been able too explain it, which is why I didn't even go there, LOL!

It's a very serious autoimmune disease, can be fatal, or I'm giving back my degree and license to practice PT, even though I haven't practiced in 15 years--though I'm keeping the money I made, natch. But I can't help it! I'm so excited! I haven't gotten how many belly-buttons a person has right in months, much less any of the stats relative to figure skating. So even after boning up on CSS, I wasn't taking as few chances as possible. But getting something right for a change, even though I got more things wrong than right, made my day. Not for being "right," but just for having a brain I at least somewhat recognized.

Wow, I had no idea the IOC had given Irina a waiver for competing with "low doses of Prednisone" in her system. Speaking of low doses, in the Boston Globe article from March 27, 2005, it was reported that although Irina's doctor was not happy that she had chosen to go on the absolute lowest dose of daily Prednisone, he felt her determination and other similar factors would hopefully make up for any "low Prednisone" factors. What I'm wondering is, for Irina, how low is the "lowest possible dose"? I realize that's Irina and her doctor's private business, but as a former physical therapist, I can't help but be curious.

Also, if Irina did take Prednisone (I thought she wasn't--BUZZER! Wrong!), I figured she would go for the lowest possible dose, which is what gave and still gives me cause for concern that the day before the ladies free skate, Irina will wake up with a raging flare of CSS and she'll barely be able to move, much less skate. I don't want to jinx her--as if I could--but again, icebergs.

Right: "Vasculitis is an inflammatory and autoimmune disease." Give the Idiot Rgirl a Kewpie Doll!
Wrong: "However, Irina would not be allowed to compete with any traces of Prednisone in her system even if it does nothing but interfere with her performance and reduce the inflammation from the vasculitis. At least that's how I understand the doping standards of the IOC." Happy to be wrong about that.

You guys get the silly idea. Rigel434, I don't know if you've been reading the absolutely "What on earth is she talking about?" posts in response to my posts with numbers and descriptions re: the COP on the GPS threads that were, pretty much, from outer space, lol. It's been an absolutely ridiculous sight to behold. People have been very patient and nice in correcting me. But I couldn't pass Kindergarten at the rate I've been going.

Thanks again for so much great and much needed information, Rigel. And welcome to Golden Skate! (I'm not a moderator, but I play one on TV.)

Rgirl

 

[rigel434]

"Thanks again for so much great and much needed information, Rigel. And welcome to Golden Skate!"

Thanks! And don't be so hard on yourself, RGirl- your post was very reasonable,
I just happen to be a big Irina fan who has followed her recovery closely. I once had a family member who was suspected of having an autoimmune disease and was treated with prednisone so I've done a lot of research about these diseases and their treatment. It turns out my family member actually had Lyme Disease (caused by a tick-borne bacterium) which means that giving her steroids was the worst possible thing they could have done- it hindered her immune system's ability to fight and made the disease worse. Eventually they gave her antibiotics, however, and she gradually improved after a very rough several months.

 

[curious]

wvgal57 #20 You know, I started this thread as much to learn about what Churg Strauss Syndrome does in the case of an elite athlete as to try to finally get a lot of posts about how Prednisone is NOT an Arnold Schwarznegger, muscle and energy building, ANABOLIC steroid, but rather the OPPOSITE--a CATABOLIC steroid that will kick the hell out of you, especially on high doses--40-80mg/d (thanks Rigel) but even while taking standard, mainstream medicine stablizing doses.

Yet someone still posted on this thread, "I would like to know more about the treatment. If Prednisone is giving Irina all that energy, I want to get some too. God knows I need it."
I'll quote Rigel for the response:
I hope the poster was joking, but given all the vitriol aimed at Irina implying that she's just using her "illness" with quotes as they put it, as an excuse to use "steroids," have loads of energy, and massacre every other ladies skater, perhaps we should think twice about joking at least about this much-misunderstood subject that just gives some posters an excuse to accuse Irina of cheating. JMO.

Rgirl

P.S. Lest we forget, Irina also has asthma and uses an inhaler, which also has either Prednisone or a steroid in the same category as Prednisone in it.

and we know how those ridiculous accusations from crazy jealous fans are helping their faves