Do you think Michelle

[bdreampixie]

Dont forget that this is not the 6.0 system now and a skater hopefully will not be held up.

I guess you missed Worlds and the generous scoring of top skaters at Campbells and past GP's.

 

[Bijoux]

TT's comments

Umm, she kinda gushes Kathy. I think her comments should be taken with a pound of salt. She also may have some mixed feelings toward Sasha and she sorta makes Shizuka look bad in the kiss and cry. Remember her less than supportive comments to Shiz when she knew we'd hear the castigation.

I think Shizuka should change coaches. As far as we know, TTis just buttering her bread re: Michelle. She just choreographed. Michelle is too smart to let her have a big role in day to day coaching.

As far as Michelle's practices go, she habitually backs off her 3/3's in comp. despite her jump coach pushing her. I do agree that Kwan nation's presence really help her. She puts the money in Nationals. I hope she skates well. I hope they all do.

 

[kyla2]

My Thoughts

I think the judging at Nationals has been consistent and fair. I absolutely believe that the judges will give it to whoever deserves it. I firmly believe that if Sasha skates a great program, she could get the nod over Michelle. I also believe Michelle has a very CoP competitive program this year. It really comes down to who delivers, the night of the LP. They will be 1 and 2 going into the LP because their closest competition isn't even close.

 

[havanamesa1]

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, you might be disappointed. If Sasha or anybody else gets the major title, good for them--I hope that whoever gets, gets it fair and square--not given to them like under the old 6.0.

Well, whoever got it in the recent past, which leaves us with only Michelle and Tara since '96, won Nationals fair and square under the old 6.0 system, and I don't see why US judges should start cheating now with the new system. If Sasha has the best skate, she'll win. She has NEVER had the best performance of the night since she joined the senior ranks at Nationals, so to date, she has never won a Nats title. It's that simple.

 

[havanamesa1]

I only know of ONE instance where she spoke about something even related to this. Care to provide a link to the article where she says these things? Because I sure missed it...

I think this is common knowledge. I am not a very close follower of figure-skating, yet even I have seen Sasha mention in a number of interviews on TV how pleased she was with the new system, with the obvious tone that she resented how the 6.0 system apparently didn't do her justice. As for her comment in that Olympic meet held two weeks ago about her feelings toward Michelle not retiring etc., I didn't find it surprising at all, and I'm sure many figure-skating followers didn't find it unusual either, as people consider it part of human nature to feel annoyed with anyone (Michelle in this case) who seems to be blocking their goals. Of course, people have made an issue of the fact that she said what she said or that she even thought it at all, but then, that's Sasha.

 

[havanamesa1]

I guess you missed Worlds and the generous scoring of top skaters at Campbells and past GP's.

And the 'scandalous' Europeans...

 

[Mathman]

It would be intriguing if, for whatever reason, Michelle decided not to compete at the Olympics after all. There would be a big scramble within the U.S. Olympic hype machine to transfer the "America's sweetheart" role over to Sasha.

I kind of felt sorry for Sasha and the other skaters who had to give interviews in the recent "Olympic media kickoff," while sitting under gigantic pictures of Michelle, who wasn't even there, LOL. Sort of like Tallulah Bankhead's famous boast to an ingenue, "I can upstage you, dahling, without even being onstage."

 

[antmanb]

Irina won because of her jumps, energy and Sasha's mistakes. I agree the politics are still there and CoP or no CoP, a Rusian sweep seems likely this year.

QUOTE]

While i half agree with this i would also add that Irina won because her very serious flaws in the SP were totally overlooked compared to how they would have left her under 6.0. Had it been marked under 6.0 she would have had at least a 0.6 deduction on technical merit and i think there's an easy argument to say 0.7 mandatory deduction given the landing of the combination jump.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I don't think she's "mastered" Cop (she's only competed ONCE under it) but I agree wholeheartedly with you- Kwan is already our 2006 US National champion (unless she pulls out). Kwan better be competitive (and Cohen too) because they've had all this rest. .

They've not been sat at home with their feet on the coach just having a jolly - they have been injured - they're not going to be as well trained as they would have been had they been training consistently over this period and futhermore i'd be concerned about Kwan's hip at this point on the basis that if it was overtraining that caused it then she doesn't want to be training at that level of intensity which might mean the stuff she was doing over the summer won't be in the programs come nationals.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

millie- If you doubt me, just you wait.


(On the other hand, if Cohen manages to shock us, I'll gladly "eat crow" or whatever you call it. But I made the same statement last year, and I was right on.)

But there's a huge difference between calling the winner of a competition and calling it because of cheating or unfair judging. I got a couple ofreports from US nationals from two people who were there live and aren't huge michelle fans who said that both last nationals and the one before she was in a league of her own and sasha faltered.

If you're prediction was just kwan to win, then you did get it right. If your prediction was the US will hand her the title then i think you were wrong. Kwan won the title - the ridiculous 6s are a different story, but winning the title convincingly she did.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Here's a BIG question.

Nats this year is using Cop for the first time.

Kwan has only competed under this system ONCE. But Cohen, even with her bare program and mistakes last year was able to place above her.

So- does the advantage suddenly switch this time around? Is it now Cohen that has the edge? Does Kwan lose that "sentimental" edge she has had in the mathematics? Or will the US judges be biased towards Kwan and their sentimental feelings and give it to her instead?

In a close one, it's going to MK. IMO Cohen would really have to OUTSKATE Kwan in BOTH the SP and the FS to have a chance at winning.

I think it's all about the judges. Will these US Nationals judges be like international judges and look at Kwan as very inexperienced with the system? Hmm...some food for thought. I tend to think it will be the same, though, and Kwan will get that "jolt" once she crosses borders- kind of like 04 and 05. The US judges don't exactly have a short history of giving excellent feedback anyway- at least I don't think so.

I honestly don't think there's going to be much difference - the international judges have already shown us that they are more than capable of manipulating the results using the PCS scores so i don't see why a cheating judge would have any difficulty manipulating the scores to get the result they want. Look at the PCS scores last year at worlds, ok Michelle had a fall in the LP which was quite disruptive as it was quite heavy and it took her a while to get back up. But did that one fall negate the fact that she has the better basics than Cohen and Slutskaya? I would think the fall was easily as comparable to Slutskaya huffing and puffing in a laboured way and skating through the second half of her program just from element to element and looking and skating very tired - not holding her position breaking her line very often in the second half? I think on the night Choen should have gotten the highest PCS for being (step out notwithstanding) the cleanest in terms of Choreo, interpretation etc then Kwan and then Slutskaya. Don't get me wrong - i loved watching Irina do that program and even now watching the tape i have a hard time not getting a lump in my throat as she finishes but that's because of what it meant to go out and skate with that content and go clean, lump in throat aside the program was choreographically empty and she struggled to finish it and was extremely sloppy by the end.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I guess you missed Worlds and the generous scoring of top skaters at Campbells and past GP's.

Don't forget Europeans...everyone knows that a 3 triple jump LP is all you need to win a championship!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I think the judging at Nationals has been consistent and fair. I absolutely believe that the judges will give it to whoever deserves it. I firmly believe that if Sasha skates a great program, she could get the nod over Michelle. I also believe Michelle has a very CoP competitive program this year. It really comes down to who delivers, the night of the LP. They will be 1 and 2 going into the LP because their closest competition isn't even close.

Sorry but i don't understand how you can believe that Kwan has a very CoP competitive program...the only way to believe this (aside from blind faith, and even this kwan fan has enough of a grip on reality to not go that far) is to have seen her compete her program in front of CoP trained judges and seeing the feedback. I agree that TT is a good choice in terms of choreography for CoP (though not nearly as good as David Wilson) but really you have to question how good TT is if she choreographed a program for Weir both this year and last year that doesn't use up all 8 jumping passes.

Ant

 

[emma]

...but really you have to question how good TT is if she choreographed a program for Weir both this year and last year that doesn't use up all 8 jumping passes.

Ant

Is it really possible that TT just decided on her own not to include 8 passes...or is it likely that Weir and coach wanted it that way? Anyone who knows how programs are made and/or anything about team Weir haven any idea?

 

[swannanoa54]

Sorry but i don't understand how you can believe that Kwan has a very CoP competitive program...the only way to believe this (aside from blind faith, and even this kwan fan has enough of a grip on reality to not go that far) is to have seen her compete her program in front of CoP trained judges and seeing the feedback. I agree that TT is a good choice in terms of choreography for CoP (though not nearly as good as David Wilson) but really you have to question how good TT is if she choreographed a program for Weir both this year and last year that doesn't use up all 8 jumping passes.

Ant

Why would you think that she has choreographed a program for Kwan that does NOT use all 8 jumping passes like she did for Weir? Maybe Weir doesn't like doing all 8 jumping passes and Kwan is all for it. Doesn't Shizuka use all 8 jumping passes? Looking at Cohen's new LP, she didn't use all 8 jumping passes but that was Campbells so maybe she wasn't that prepared to put them in, but she looked pretty darn good to me.

The only thing I can say now is: Go Alissa! Stun the world!

 

[nymkfan51]

Ant .. I can't imagine that TT left out a jumping pass in Johnny's choreography. Either he made an adjustment on his own, or just never planned to put everything out there for the early comps.

And kyla said "she believed" MK would have a COP friendly program, and I agree with her. Not trying to put words into her mouth, but with all the reports this past summer of her training, and the fact that she hired one of the top COP choreographers ... well, it's not too hard for me to make the same conclusion kyla did. Of course we could all be wrong, but everything is speculation at this point anyway.

 

[attyfan]

Is it really possible that TT just decided on her own not to include 8 passes...or is it likely that Weir and coach wanted it that way? Anyone who knows how programs are made and/or anything about team Weir haven any idea?

Weir said, in his latest journal, that he had to re-do the program because judges and callers said that his spins, etc., weren't difficult enough -- and even with the re-done program, he didn't use all his jumping passes. Furthermore, the programs TT has done for other skaters (Tim, Shizuka) seem to use all their jumping passes; it isn't TT's fault if the skater doesn't land them.

 

[Mathman]

7 jumping passes for ladies.

As for the men, it's tricky to know what to do if you don't have a quad. If you don't have a quad, then you have to do a couple of triple-triple combinations early, and then you are pretty much Zayaked out by the time you get to your last two passes.

At Campbell's, Lysacek's first triple toe was supposed to be a quad. When he bailed with a triple, that seemed to take the spirit out of the whole program. I bet the program Johnny is working toward not only uses all eight passes, but also includes a quad attempt.

About Irina's performance at Worlds, I don't really have any objection to the judges saying to themselves, wow, that was a great show, let's pile on the points for transitions, choreography, etc. Maybe this defeats the purpose of the CoP, but the judges have to be allowed to do something toward determining the winner, otherwise why are they sitting there?

MM

 

[R.D.]

f you're prediction was just kwan to win, then you did get it right. If your prediction was the US will hand her the title then i think you were wrong. Kwan won the title - the ridiculous 6s are a different story, but winning the title convincingly she did.

It wasn't a prediction- it was a BET. I was THAT confident that she'd win. Cohen hardly stood a chance as far as I was concerned...and I think the same applies next time, too.

It would be intriguing if, for whatever reason, Michelle decided not to compete at the Olympics after all. There would be a big scramble within the U.S. Olympic hype machine to transfer the "America's sweetheart" role over to Sasha.

I think they're already prepared. After all, Cohen did go to that Media Summit so they'll have plenty of quotes, articles and photos of her in order to run a big "hype program" on her. Same with Kimmie. But I think they'll be overshadowed by Kwan if she goes. Cohen is the reigning (world) silver medallist though so I see her getting some hype regardless of whether Kwan is there or not. She (Cohen) might STILL be considered the U.S. hopeful since she ranks the highest of the three...and Kwan might just be the sentimental favorite. Or not?

 

[hockeyfan228]

About Irina's performance at Worlds, I don't really have any objection to the judges saying to themselves, wow, that was a great show, let's pile on the points for transitions, choreography, etc. Maybe this defeats the purpose of the CoP, but the judges have to be allowed to do something toward determining the winner, otherwise why are they sitting there?

For two reasons: 1. to use their judgement by following the guidelines that are there to ensure the correct weight of each aspect of skating, instead of overinflating and overemphasizing a specific aspect of the skate and 2. to make performances over different competitions comparable, which doesn't work if #1 doesn't happen. There's a reason for each element's and each component scores value.

I don't know anyone who questions that Slutskaya shoudn't have won the LP and title in Moscow. The question is whether the scores in Moscow and particularly in Torino were inflated and disproportionate to the actual performance.