Doug Haw Interview

[GGFan]

I cannot claim that I know Doug very well, but he is a coach and Brian Orser's bestie. He's coached at several rinks and knows all of the coaches. I'll let someone else give a more complete resume. He appears on TSL's Olympic Men's recap.

This is not the showstopper interview that Meagan was, but there is so much technical analysis that it is well worth a listen. He goes over the top men's programs and analyzes jump technique in a detailed manner.

Doug knows a lot of these skaters from way back and speaks to Orser all the time of course. The major tea is on Yuzu and how much of a mental triumph this win was! Beyond Elivs Stojko We also get to hear why Patrick had issues with axels from early on.

Warning: those of you who do not like the more gossipy parts of TSL may want to tune out Dave at times. For those who don't mind

 

[chopinskate]

This was more annoying than usual. They seem to like "serving the tea" (ugh) far too much nowadays.

 

[s_parks]

Have to agree on Dave pointing out the problem with Zhou's coaching situation, though. That is three coaches too many, and it just seems like such a messy situation. And I doubt Gambill and Tom Z's abilities to get a skater on the top level, for obvious reasons.

 

[GGFan]

This was more annoying than usual. They seem to like "serving the tea" (ugh) far too much nowadays.

Understandable. It doesn't bother me as much. To me it sets up Dave as bad cop and it allows the guest to say some things they wouldn't otherwise say because next to Dave they seem tame. Doug still brought a lot of great information to the fore.

 

[cruzceleste]

Will love if someone makes a summary, I highly dislike Dave way to act towards the skater he doesn´t like, because he is highly biased, and since Jenny I haven´t watch TSL, and I don´t want to give him a click.

 

[chopinskate]

Understandable. It doesn't bother me as much. To me it sets up Dave as bad cop and it allows the guest to say some things they wouldn't otherwise say because next to Dave they seem tame. Doug still brought a lot of great information to the fore.

Dave seems to love rolling his eyes more and more each video.

 

[ice coverage]

... And I doubt Gambill and Tom Z's abilities to get a skater on the top level, for obvious reasons.

Disclaimer: I haven't listened to the interview.

In any case, I am laughing as I wonder what you mean by "top level."
Maybe to you, "top level" means only World podium or Olympic podium.

Regardless, seventeen-year-old Vincent just finished sixth at his first Olympics. In his first full season of international competition as a Senior.
IMO, an accomplishment for which he -- and his coaches -- can be very proud.

For context:

In sixth place at 2014 OWG: Daisuke Takahashi (2010 OWG bronze medalist, former World champion with two additional World medals).
In sixth place at 2010 OWG: Johnny Weir (2008 World medalist).​

(Whether Vincent would be better off with fewer coaches is a separate question.)

 

[GGFan]

Will love if someone makes a summary, I highly dislike Dave way to act towards the skater he doesn´t like, because he is highly biased, and since Jenny I haven´t watch TSL, and I don´t want to give him a click.

I wasn't taking notes but to give you an idea here's a very short summary. I go by the free skate results since that's the order they seemed to be going in for a while:

1. Nathan: Discussed Nathan's jumps but also the coaching situation. Doug thinks that you need muscle memory so all of the changes in layout are not wise. He gave kudos to his jump technique and to the seatbelt position he uses. He said the 3A in the free was the best ever he did. They also discussed how he could become the complete package. Dave very much believes he needs to go to Toronto.

2. Yuzu: Discussed the triumph that it was to make this happen with only training jumps in 3 weeks. Discussed Yuzu's natural abilities and how he hits a happy place in his jumps.

3. Shoma: Discussed Shoma's jumps and how Doug would try to flatten his entrances more so the axis wasn't as tight and he would be able to check out of his jumps. Jonathan is a huge fan. Dave critiqued the music choices and everyone hoped Shoma would chose better music that more suited his unique abilities.

4. Javi: Discussed Javi's overall package and what he brings to the ice. Also discussed the spring in his jumps and why his 4T has been better than his 4S.

5. Boyang: Doug killed him on transitions. Said his posture is much improved but he needs work on the artistic side. Jonathan was pointing to the head tilt and the faces he makes in the jumps.

6. Vincent: Doug thinks that as he matures a bit more he will have increased strength to pull the jumps off. Lots of skepticism of the coaching situation (especially from Dave) and wether all of these cooks can been trusted.

7. Mikhail: Mostly discussed how Tarasova thinks he needs other coaches and how things have not gone as expected. There is more faith in Dmitri.

8. Patrick: Discussed his issues with the double axel from the get go. He was going into with a big curve as if he was a grown skater. It caused many falls and a bd base that did not help over the years.

9. Alexei: Do not remember anything being said about him :dev2:

10. Adam: discussed how focused he was and how much he took ownership of the 3A after Sochi. Did not let all of the Olympic craziness detract him from his goal.

 

[s_parks]

Disclaimer: I haven't listened to the interview.

In any case, I am laughing as I wonder what you mean by "top level."
Maybe to you, "top level" means only World podium or Olympic podium.

Regardless, seventeen-year-old Vincent just finished sixth at his first Olympics. In his first full season of international competition as a Senior.
IMO, an accomplishment for which he -- and his coaches -- can be very proud.

For context:

In sixth place at 2014 OWG: Daisuke Takahashi (2010 OWG bronze medalist, former World champion with two additional World medals).
In sixth place at 2010 OWG: Johnny Weir (2008 World medalist).​

(Whether Vincent would be better off with fewer coaches is a separate question.)

Well, of course I mean world/olympic podium. With vincent's talent and ambition, I assume that's what they're going for. I don't think he wants to, nor would other fans like to see him stop at merely "promising".

 

[Eclair]

I cannot claim that I know Doug very well, but he is a coach and Brian Orser's bestie. He's coached at several rinks and knows all of the coaches. I'll let someone else give a more complete resume. He appears on TSL's Olympic Men's recap.

This is not the showstopper interview that Meagan was, but there is so much technical analysis that it is well worth a listen. He goes over the top men's programs and analyzes jump technique in a detailed manner.

Doug knows a lot of these skaters from way back and speaks to Orser all the time of course. The major tea is on Yuzu and how much of a mental triumph this win was! Beyond Elivs Stojko We also get to hear why Patrick had issues with axels from early on.

Warning: those of you who do not like the more gossipy parts of TSL may want to tune out Dave at times. For those who don't mind

I had high hopes for this one because of his knowledge in technical stuff, but I have to say I don't think he knows the skaters he's talking about that well.

first of all, he said, that in his opinion Hanyu won't continue skating, because : for what? he already achieved everything.
- anyone who knows Hanyu, knows that's not how he rolls. With this logic, he could have retired after his Gold in Sochi. Especially, since Hanyu already said, that he doesn't want to retire and maybe skate for 1 -2 season at least.

so I kind of doubt his "inside information". Megan's interview was much better.

also, another one who kills Boyang on transitions but doesn't even think of mentioning the same issue with Nathan, Vincent or Adam. Starts to roll his eyes when Boyang is mentioned, shakes his head. All other skaters, he tried to add a positive spin to it, but he didn't until Dave or Jonathan started to talk about the posture. I doubt he would ever act like this to a Canadian or American skater.
So, he's kind of biased. Clearly has his favorites. Especially how he praised the way a judge judged seemingly nationalistic based.

His technical information was decent, even though not that groundbreaking.

In summary: Patrick's difficulties with the 3axel comes from a faulty 2axel technique. The problem on Shoma's jumps are his take-offs. Nathan jumps in a seatbelt position, which is a new thing and working. Boyang jumps with unusual head position which changes his axis.

Not really worth the watch ...

 

[GGFan]

I had high hopes for this one because of his knowledge in technical stuff, but I have to say I don't think he knows the skaters he's talking about that well.

first of all, he said, that in his opinion Hanyu won't continue skating, because : for what? he already achieved everything.
- anyone who knows Hanyu, knows that's not how he rolls. With this logic, he could have retired after his Gold in Sochi. Especially, since Hanyu already said, that he doesn't want to retire and maybe skate for 1 -2 season at least.

so I kind of doubt his "inside information". Megan's interview was much better.

also, another one who kills Boyang on transitions but doesn't even think of mentioning the same issue with Nathan, Vincent or Adam. Starts to roll his eyes when Boyang is mentioned, shakes his head. All other skaters, he tried to add a positive spin to it, but he didn't until Dave or Jonathan started to talk about the posture. I doubt he would ever act like this to a Canadian or American skater.
So, he's kind of biased. Clearly has his favorites. Especially how he praised the way a judge judged seemingly nationalistic based.

His technical information was decent, even though not that groundbreaking.

In summary: Patrick's difficulties with the 3axel comes from a faulty 2axel technique. The problem on Shoma's jumps are his take-offs. Nathan jumps in a seatbelt position, which is a new thing and working. Boyang jumps with unusual head position which changes his axis.

Not really worth the watch ...

I can completely understand thinking this is not worth the watch. This is not directed at you specifically but I just wanted to clarify a couple things:

1. I think it's pretty easy to distinguish the parts where he's talking about something he's heard from a good source and when he's speculating. In terms of Yuzu retiring--he has no clue and he clearly says that's what he thinks. When he's talking about the amount of training time, that's something from Brian. Now if he was passing off something as a fact I would have an issue.

2. The discussions of Nathan, Vincent, and Boyang all included parts about how to take them to the next level. I think the implication is that they're all missing something. Yes, they were more dismissive of Boyang, but there was critique of all of them.

3. One of my pet peeves is this entire discussion of bias. All human beings are biased. Just because Doug Haw has favorites does not mean that he does not have good information. I listen to an entire variety of people check them against each other and make a decision about what I will believe. But this whole idea of completely writing off someone because they're biased?? Tarasova is totally biased and I love the woman! She'll say things that are wrong but I would sit and listen to her because there's a lot of knowledge she's dropping at the same time. This whole ignore the haters culture is nice in a way but a complete mess in another. You can learn a lot from people who are biased and think very differently from yourself. :hpull:

 

[Eclair]

I can completely understand thinking this is not worth the watch. This is not directed at you specifically but I just wanted to clarify a couple things:

1. I think it's pretty easy to distinguish the parts where he's talking about something he's heard from a good source and when he's speculating. In terms of Yuzu retiring--he has no clue and he clearly says that's what he thinks. When he's talking about the amount of training time, that's something from Brian. Now if he was passing off something as a fact I would have an issue.

2. The discussions of Nathan, Vincent, and Boyang all included parts about how to take them to the next level. I think the implication is that they're all missing something. Yes, they were more dismissive of Boyang, but there was critique of all of them.

3. One of my pet peeves is this entire discussion of bias. All human beings are biased. Just because Doug Haw has favorites does not mean that he does not have good information. I listen to an entire variety of people check them against each other and make a decision about what I will believe. But this whole idea of completely writing off someone because they're biased?? Tarasova is totally biased and I love the woman! She'll say things that are wrong but I would sit and listen to her because there's a lot of knowledge she's dropping at the same time. This whole ignore the haters culture is nice in a way but a complete mess in another. You can learn a lot from people who are biased and think very differently from yourself. :hpull:

1. I chose the example with Yuzuru retiring exactly because I thought it was not that easily distinguishable, when he was speculating, and when he was talking about something he had knowledge of. They introduced him as woking in Brians Team and then started to ask about inside information about Brian's team, including whether Yuzuru will retire. Then he answers this and if you don't already know, that Yuzuru didn't say anything about retirement and even if, he wouldn't do it, because of: there nothing more to win, then it's really easy to believe what he said to be correct inside information.

2. Yeah, they sure had critics for all of them and Doug was more restraint at the beginning than at the end, where he talked more freely. Still, most dissmissive of Boyang by far in comparison to any other skater, including less refined ones like Vincent. It may not bother others, which I can understand, but it does a little bit to me.

3. Sure, everyone is biased, but some are more biased than others. Tarasova is kind of rude to everyone. A little bit like Dick Button. He likes good positions and pointed feet. He's not biased in nationality (or at least I never heard him praise "ugly" positions no matter who the skater is). And the main reason I wrote this interview off, was because of what I described as "decent but no groundbreaking technical information", of which I gave a short summary. Not because I didn't like his personality.

 

[GGFan]

I think you may be too technically advanced in your knowledge to appreciate the technical expertise he offered. For those of us who do not know as much it could be helpful to hear another opinion. I've heard Raf, Tom Z, Frank, and a couple others discuss technique so it was nice having another data point.

 

[Eclair]

I think you may be too technically advanced in your knowledge to appreciate the technical expertise he offered. For those of us who do not know as much it could be helpful to hear another opinion. I've heard Raf, Tom Z, Frank, and a couple others discuss technique so it was nice having another data point.

I don't know about that, but before watching I kind of expected a little more technicals. Maybe it can be summarized as followed:

If you know, that:
- Patrick struggles with his 3axel regularly, more than with his quads
- Nathan is technically pretty brilliant in his jumps
- Vincent has Underrotation problems and his coaching Team is not known for teaching SS and Transitions
- Shoma's problem with his jumps are his take-offs
- Boyang is still lacking in transitions, but jumps with his head in an unusual position

then I wouldn't recommend the interview, as the rest was just mix of speculation, half-truth and could offend you (or not).

If you don't know these things, maybe try watching.

 

[GGFan]

I'm glad I was able to pick up a bit more than that

 

[ladyjane]

Poor Boyang. I realise he's more of a jumper than an artistic skater but he has improved so much in just three years on those other scores than the TES. Well, at least they acknowledged his better posture (but I would say he's improved on a lot more than just that. He didn't win 4cc on his jumps alone). I'm still moved by his crying some nights ago, and though I totally agreed with the judges here that he didn't come up to par with the medallists, I still think it is very unfair to just dismiss him like this. in fact, I'm becoming more of a fan of his, just because of these negative responses to his skating - be they in tweets or interviews like this one. Go for it Boyang!

 

[shiroKJ]

Poor Boyang. I realise he's more of a jumper than an artistic skater but he has improved so much in just three years on those other scores than the TES. Well, at least they acknowledged his better posture (but I would say he's improved on a lot more than just that. He didn't win 4cc on his jumps alone). I'm still moved by his crying some nights ago, and though I totally agreed with the judges here that he didn't come up to par with the medallists, I still think it is very unfair to just dismiss him like this. in fact, I'm becoming more of a fan of his, just because of these negative responses to his skating - be they in tweets or interviews like this one. Go for it Boyang!

At least one of the sports legends won't ever forget all that he's done. Yuzu is always the first to mentions him as being the person who pushed him and this sport technically and how he admires Boyang for all he's accomplished.

 

[beki]

Poor Boyang. I realise he's more of a jumper than an artistic skater but he has improved so much in just three years on those other scores than the TES. Well, at least they acknowledged his better posture (but I would say he's improved on a lot more than just that. He didn't win 4cc on his jumps alone). I'm still moved by his crying some nights ago, and though I totally agreed with the judges here that he didn't come up to par with the medallists, I still think it is very unfair to just dismiss him like this. in fact, I'm becoming more of a fan of his, just because of these negative responses to his skating - be they in tweets or interviews like this one. Go for it Boyang!

I completely agree. The constant criticism of him almost seems like wishful thinking/propaganda for other skaters. He's gradually building up his skating in a sustainable way. He has a personality on the ice. He's improved more than anyone, and I don't think he's even close to hitting the ceiling of his potential. He's a gold medal threat in 2022.

 

[cruzceleste]

Thank you, you are the MVP

 

[Tavi...]

I had high hopes for this one because of his knowledge in technical stuff, but I have to say I don't think he knows the skaters he's talking about that well.

first of all, he said, that in his opinion Hanyu won't continue skating, because : for what? he already achieved everything.
- anyone who knows Hanyu, knows that's not how he rolls. With this logic, he could have retired after his Gold in Sochi. Especially, since Hanyu already said, that he doesn't want to retire and maybe skate for 1 -2 season at least.

so I kind of doubt his "inside information". Megan's interview was much better.

also, another one who kills Boyang on transitions but doesn't even think of mentioning the same issue with Nathan, Vincent or Adam. Starts to roll his eyes when Boyang is mentioned, shakes his head. All other skaters, he tried to add a positive spin to it, but he didn't until Dave or Jonathan started to talk about the posture. I doubt he would ever act like this to a Canadian or American skater.
So, he's kind of biased. Clearly has his favorites. Especially how he praised the way a judge judged seemingly nationalistic based.

His technical information was decent, even though not that groundbreaking.

In summary: Patrick's difficulties with the 3axel comes from a faulty 2axel technique. The problem on Shoma's jumps are his take-offs. Nathan jumps in a seatbelt position, which is a new thing and working. Boyang jumps with unusual head position which changes his axis.

Not really worth the watch ...

I thought what he said about 3A entry curves was interesting. Also why Adam leans back.