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Ooh, flirtacious and coquettish are both great words that will work to describe some performances, without the negative connotation. Thanks!
Flirtatious Programs: what do you think of them?
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Ooh, flirtacious and coquettish are both great words that will work to describe some performances, without the negative connotation. Thanks!
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- Aug 8, 2009
Well, rather than use the said term, I might have said ‘doing movements to bring attention to the judges/audience that you are a sexy being and giving a false impression that you are sexually available to them, all for the sake of hiding the fact that you are not a talented enough figure skater to fill the program with movements that demonstrate actual figure skating skills’.
And as for whether that is a gender-specific term, well, I didn’t necessarily think about that, though I suppose it’s more women who do it than men in general on the ice. The only male skater whom I can think of off the top of my head who does this is Brian Joubert. He does it all the time, though, I have to admit that he ‘blows a kiss’ or ‘hip shakes’ with so much irony that I find it just funny.
Also, I do not find such movements stupid all the time. For example, when Carolina blew a kiss at the judges during her Bolero, I found it completely sexy and seductive, and just okay with it, but that was because Carolina’s skating skills are so, so, sooooo well-established that I read the gesture as more a demonstration of her absolute confidence in her own skating and her moment of owning her own sexuality, rather than a method to hide her deficiencies as a figure skater.
And as for whether that is a gender-specific term, well, I didn’t necessarily think about that, though I suppose it’s more women who do it than men in general on the ice. The only male skater whom I can think of off the top of my head who does this is Brian Joubert. He does it all the time, though, I have to admit that he ‘blows a kiss’ or ‘hip shakes’ with so much irony that I find it just funny.
Also, I do not find such movements stupid all the time. For example, when Carolina blew a kiss at the judges during her Bolero, I found it completely sexy and seductive, and just okay with it, but that was because Carolina’s skating skills are so, so, sooooo well-established that I read the gesture as more a demonstration of her absolute confidence in her own skating and her moment of owning her own sexuality, rather than a method to hide her deficiencies as a figure skater.
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- Feb 27, 2012
Fair enough. Thx, Doris
.The shirt phrase bothers me enough that I don't want to write it out exactly. But for anyone who needs it spelled out, I will follow the example of Sam-S and approximate it. It's almost like "wife beaker."
And it is true that it was my own choice not to post any reaction (at least I think I never did) when the WB phrase was in GS threads elsewhere.
Although I didn't like seeing it, I did not believe for one second that using the phrase was meant to imply that a skater literally was a WB (or GF-B). Nor did I believe that the GS member using the phrase condones B-ing of anyone.
Similarly, the use of the other W word in this thread did not strike me as an implication that any skater literally is a W.
Anyway, I will stop hijacking the thread. As you can tell, words are an interest of mine. And discussing them reminds me of our friend Olympia.
Thanks, sabinfire
.I never knew the neutral term. Yet another thing I have learned unexpectedly on GS.
(A-shirt is far superior to my ersatz alternatives like tank top or sleeveless t-shirt.)
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- Mar 23, 2010
Heh... Men definitely do it, don't you be all innocent about Daisuke's flirtateous looks/pout and Hanyu's thriving on all the attention from Parisian Walk suggestive choreography. Black Betty + Magic Spaniard Hips = pure gold!! Need I say more?
Ultimately there's nothing wrong with "hold an edge and look sexy" while competing EVEN if you are NOT the best or the most talented skater out there. It is after all, part of nature, adult hood, where art is life. Skaters should absolutely acknowledging it as an essential part of developing artistry. It certainly does NOT mean they are sexually available!!! Goodness no! I have always consider Miss Piggy sexy!! Funny sexy but still VERY sexy. I dread anyone to think anything beyond that. Poor judges, they get accused of being lecherous old men/women just because they acknowledge sexiness. May be ISU should start to hire eunuchs to judge from now on. Nuns don't make the best artists either. The adventurous rule breakers do. I'd even argue pre-teenagers on some subconscious level readily celebrate their sexuality in all aspect of their performance too. Otherwise why do they want to have the nicest costumes, make up, hair, look their best while skate pretty to grab the most attention? How much revealing just comes down to cultural differences in the end which understandably can be controversial.
Poor taste, bad execution, unconvincing goods however is a different story. Not everyone sell sexy can be sexy if people are not buying into what they are selling. Shakira on ice is not sexy when she land on all fours, can't rotate her jumps, hold her edges, pout/sway/glide on time with the rhythm of music/choreography. It can get awkward and embarrassing I give you that. As a member of the audience I certainly prefer not to look at embarrassing things.
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- Aug 8, 2009
Yeah, if a skater is holding an edge and looking convincingly sexy at the same time, that's artistry. When the skater is stand still on the ice and/or just hopping around on the ice and just trying to look sexy, it becomes a problem for me. I never thought to raise Daisuke or Hanyu as examples because they never just do standstill sexy poses. They usually are holding an edge and looking sexy. But even with standstill poses (like Caro's example that I raised) as long as the rest of the program is absolutely top-knotch, then for me, that's okay, too.
Imho, it has nothing to do with skating skills realy. Only bothers when the skater is too stiff and makes it look awkward (Gracie and shake it off almost made my brazillian half cry) or too vulgar (for example some utfits that are too revealing).
Some people here are making it sound like "if a person is holding an edge, this person can do anything including a full striptease and it still will be artistry"
Some people here are making it sound like "if a person is holding an edge, this person can do anything including a full striptease and it still will be artistry"
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- Aug 8, 2009
If a skater demonstrates superior skating skills while doing a striptease, that, IMO, would makes him/her a good skater and a nymphomaniac.
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C'mon. Not necessarily. Actually, not really. Skaters who act like strippers on the ice, even if they may be good skaters, wouldn't be looked upon as good skaters. They'd be looked upon as strippers who can skate.
And I don't really know of any skater who was unabashedly lewd on the ice who then went on to become a skating fan favorite.
Maybe they become favorites of people who don't know anything about skating, who see them as strippers who happen to skate, as if the skating part is a new play or something.
I hope that no figure skater thinks s/he has to do that to become a star.
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- Dec 25, 2012
A guess you are talking about competition programs? Because in exhibition programs, skaters do it all the time, fan favorites included. Not full striptease, but taking off a shirt or item of clothing is a EX staple.
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- Dec 29, 2013
Who are you guys talking about? The most sizzling skate that comes to mind in recent memory is Valentina's last FS. The thing is ... I don't think I'd be uncomfortable watching it with one of the younger(under 15 yrs old) skaters around the rinks. Valentina was hot but not in a stereotypical way many associate with the taboo nature of the topic itself.
Blowing a kiss at a judge or a sassy look at the crowd may be something I'd never do but that doesn't mean it's something others shouldn't do. Meh. Often I think many skaters over interpret their music but it seems many posters here relate to that sort of thing...different strokes
Blowing a kiss at a judge or a sassy look at the crowd may be something I'd never do but that doesn't mean it's something others shouldn't do. Meh. Often I think many skaters over interpret their music but it seems many posters here relate to that sort of thing...different strokes
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- Aug 8, 2009
I was responding to the suggestion that a good skater who also would be willing to and do in fact do something so sexual as to it being akin to a striptease would become a fan favorite. I said that such skaters wouldn't become skating fans' favorite, but would likely catch the attention of a general public who would see them not so much as a serious skater but as a sexually-attractive person who happens to be able to skate as well. I think that if you're really into figure skating as a sport, you might actually even find that to be demeaning for the sport if it's done too blatantly.
And I hope that the figure skating community won't encourage this notion, that you have to be sexually-attractive to become a successful figureskater.
BTW, I really don't get those fans who are into Hanyu so much like in a fangirling kind of way. I find it really odd, not my cup of tea. I admire Hanyu for his jumping skills, and I did finally cry for him when he showed his determination at a competition after his injury, but I don't feel his sex appeal at all. Yew! Like he's just a boy and I find it kind of sad that even middle-aged women (in Japan, my sister included, BTW) go all gaga over him, like there's a part of them fantasizing about what, I wonder? As I say, not my cup of tea, thank you very much. (E.T.A.: Actually, my understanding is that those middle-aged women who are fangirling over Hanyu do so because he doesn't appear to be a sexual being to them, because he's like a manga prince. Not real at all---the same mechanism at work as in Disneyland fandom. I'm not a Disney fan, either...)
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- Dec 25, 2012
--But having made better life-choices, and gaining respect from his peers.
BACK TO THE TOPIC... being flirtatious (sexy) on ice can be as good as being soulful, dramatic, playful, or emo. -It all depends on if you can do it convincingly, entertain the audience an impress the judges.
I think Elizaveta does flirtatious very well, so why not capitalize on this strength? Just do it in a way that enhances the whole program and connects with the music.
These days, I think the ratio is about 3:1 (hazy guess) in favor of the Soulful-Dramatic programs as opposed to sexy programs. It's not like we're being inundated by strippers-on-ice.
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- Mar 23, 2010
Not really...I think you are mixing up a couple of issues. Carolina Kostner wasn't born able to skating sexy, she has worked on it for many many years before there was a Bolero. Katerita Witt wasn't born a Carmen ready made for the Olympics, it took her many years of fine tuning and develop their artistry for these signature pieces/moments. I feel bad for you as a skating fan, I can't imagine how hard is it to avoid all those Carmen over the years, since they are all very likely to have been hugely influenced by Witt's version which is very sexy because guess what... THE music/character calls for it. If Mao produced a Carmen that completely ignores her sexuality, though probably more acceptable to some of her fans, it would be totally unthinkable and prude.
I find generally there are some misconception about artistry due to the judging system that emphasize on aesthetics and techniques, which I suppose is understandable since the sport is 'figure' skating under COP. In reality however, artistry is a process not just the end results. Process should be as important as the end result. Process that include experimenting, failing, trying new things and know thyself. Young and inexperienced shouldn't be ridiculed for trying new things and should be encouraged despite of it. Skate sexy is one of the many many types of expressions on ice and that doesn't need to be lewd or x rated, but it is also an essential part of embracing drama and life, as powerful and potent as any love stories, summer breeze pleasantries. I doubt one of the best program last year by Josh Farris 'Give me love', his movement is really going 'Give me a smile' because apparently he is a shy shy guy in real life, when the words in the background calls for:
Give me love like never before,
'Cause lately I've been craving more,
And it's been a while but I still feel the same,
Maybe I should let you go,
You know I'll fight my corner,
And that tonight I'll call ya,
After my blood is drowning in alcohol,
No I just wanna hold ya.
Give a little time to me or burn this out,
We'll play hide and seek to turn this around,
All I want is the taste that your lips allow,
My, my, my, my, oh give me love,
Give a little time to me, or burn this out,
We'll play hide and seek to turn this around,
All I want is the taste that your lips allow,
My, my, my, my, oh give me love,
My, my, my, my, oh give me love,
My, my, my, my, oh give me love,
My, my, my, my, oh give me love,
My my, my, my, oh give me love.
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- Mar 28, 2014
Sex bomb! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1T61vX4wm4
I was going to mention this. I don't think anyone thinks of Plushenko as a stripper who can skate. He definitely went on to become a fan favorite after 2001! Savchenko/Massot also did a strip tease in Yuna's show last year.
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- Dec 25, 2012
Very entertaining
...there was also Verner's golden pants at the 2014 Worlds Exhibition.
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- Aug 8, 2009
Yes, thank you for starting a new thread. I kept on wondering if I was contributing to the right thread. This makes it more clear.
Umm. I think I've basically said whatever I feel about the matter. Personally, as long as the skater is not replacing 'looking sexy' with actually skating---e.g., stopping full stop and posing provocatively, blowing a kiss, etc. or moving, but doing it very badly and appearing to only be doing something sexy/flirtious as if to divert attention from their lack of skating skills, then I think it is okay.
I feel that I am personally not that drawn to skaters' sex appealness, for want of a better word. I never really got the Daisuke fever either, though I really loved the program that Lori gave Daisuke in his final season because the program wasn't so full-on and actually told a story about his own travails as a figure skater. I guess I like to feel that I am watching a skater as an athlete doing their sincere best to be the best athlete they can be, giving their heart and soul on the ice.
I don't know about experimenting with 'doing flirtatious' as a program. Yeah, sure. Why not. But personally, I don't think it's good to make/encourage young girls who are so young as to not actually know their own sexual power and/or sexual weakness do it. So I guess I am completely okay with girls who are at an age where they've graduated from university start doing sexy programs, because by then, they are more likely to have had enough life experience.
Katarina Witt! Ha, ha! Midori was so much better. So to me, it's more like, Katarina who? Let's face it, who gets more discussion now on skating boards here? Katarina Witt or Midori? There are endless threads about 'which performance made you cry?', 'most memorable programs', 'best jumpers', 'best skaters', etc., and Katarina Witt hardly ever gets mentioned, whereas Midori is mentioned all the time. So the Witt example shows that doing sexy doesn't get you much respect as a figureskater/athlete in the long run. I sure wouldn't ever want Mao to emulate Katarina and she sure doesn't need to. What is Mao supposed to take from Katarina Witt? The deathly stare and her apparent poor sportsmanship? Noooo thank you.
P.S. From what I have seen of Katarina Witt in interviews of recent years, she appears to have changed a great deal.
I kept on wondering if I was contributing to the right thread. This makes it more clear.Umm. I think I've basically said whatever I feel about the matter. Personally, as long as the skater is not replacing 'looking sexy' with actually skating---e.g., stopping full stop and posing provocatively, blowing a kiss, etc. or moving, but doing it very badly and appearing to only be doing something sexy/flirtious as if to divert attention from their lack of skating skills, then I think it is okay.
I feel that I am personally not that drawn to skaters' sex appealness, for want of a better word. I never really got the Daisuke fever either, though I really loved the program that Lori gave Daisuke in his final season because the program wasn't so full-on and actually told a story about his own travails as a figure skater. I guess I like to feel that I am watching a skater as an athlete doing their sincere best to be the best athlete they can be, giving their heart and soul on the ice.
I don't know about experimenting with 'doing flirtatious' as a program. Yeah, sure. Why not. But personally, I don't think it's good to make/encourage young girls who are so young as to not actually know their own sexual power and/or sexual weakness do it. So I guess I am completely okay with girls who are at an age where they've graduated from university start doing sexy programs, because by then, they are more likely to have had enough life experience.
Katarina Witt! Ha, ha! Midori was so much better. So to me, it's more like, Katarina who? Let's face it, who gets more discussion now on skating boards here? Katarina Witt or Midori? There are endless threads about 'which performance made you cry?', 'most memorable programs', 'best jumpers', 'best skaters', etc., and Katarina Witt hardly ever gets mentioned, whereas Midori is mentioned all the time. So the Witt example shows that doing sexy doesn't get you much respect as a figureskater/athlete in the long run. I sure wouldn't ever want Mao to emulate Katarina and she sure doesn't need to. What is Mao supposed to take from Katarina Witt? The deathly stare and her apparent poor sportsmanship? Noooo thank you.
P.S. From what I have seen of Katarina Witt in interviews of recent years, she appears to have changed a great deal.
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