Hanyus Unexpected Free Skate Errors

[Violet Bliss]

Yeah I'm more referring to multiple rude PM's I got about this thread, which to me is really unnecessary, also sorry if it seemed like you were one that I was calling out, it's more on the earlier pages where it's just tons of spam of the same thing over and over, complaining that there's a thread for this and yeah I'm new to the site so I'm noticing how much people nitpick the words and it's a little annoying ha ha. I just made this because it seemed like a discussion everyone was having and I thought that was the kind of thing that warranted it's own thread, but instead I just got spammed over using the word "choke" even though I replaced it five minutes after posting and the site was too glitchy to update lol. Oh well tho. I mean like I said it wont let me delete threads, but people need to stop PM'ing me about this. Don't think a thread is necessary? Don't reply to it. Not everyone knows the preferences of every individual platform.

I am so sorry you should be targeted personally. I'm not one of the many Hanyu's passionate and protective fans and I objected to your choice of the word "choke" in the thread title as not appropriate. I didn't particularly notice who started the thread and of course didn't realize you're new to this forum. Maybe you should have known 1) thread titles are very important and should be carefully worded, and 2) Hanyu has a massive ardent army of supporters and defenders. It didn't occur to me as it was not my nature, but now it's clear that your unfortunate choice of thread title, and maybe the wording in your original post, got some people to believe you meant to deride him and evidently they take it personally.

It is a shame you should experience personal hostility as a new member here. I hope you will stay to have better experiences even though you need to be prepared for regular heated arguments and some attitude from a few posters. Welcome to the Golden Skate.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Well, it never occurred to me that PM could be used so negatively. I thought they were for friendly communication as, really, who wants to approach and converse with someone you disagree with? Isn't it enough to debate in the forum like we're supposed to do?

 

[Yatagarasu]

Well ... to call a spade a spade, I think it is not disrespectful or rude to assume that promoting the UPI article that you wrote about Hanyu's performance at Autumn Classic was another reason that you started the thread.

Oh that is her own article! I actually never connected the two.

And it's a factually incorrect article to boot because Yuzuru never tried to land the 4Lz. He popped a 3Lz.

 

[ice coverage]

The presser is over, and I am back to add some general comments:

(1)

... I don't mind at all people correcting me, or even arguing if its something worth debating ...

... I also didnt know people were so sensitive about the word choke (of course i understand why now, it just wasnt something i thought about) ...

Especially given that writing/journalism is a professional interest of yours, I hope that you would agree that word choice is important.

And I hope that you consider it worthwhile to think about words and to discuss what words mean.​

(2) I gather that you received a number of PMs -- but I hope you will not take it personally.

The thing is that each person who sent you a PM would have had no idea that others were sending you PMs.
Would have had no idea how many PMs you already had received and would have had no idea what the other PMs were saying.

And the reason for sending you a PM could have been that the sender felt the content of the PM was off topic from the main discussion of Hanyu.​

---

Oh that is her own article! I actually never connected the two. ...

Yes, in a previous thread, emilyprox told us that she is Emily Pacenti, an intern for UPI.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...for-Team-USA&p=1782514&viewfull=1#post1782514​

 

[skylark]

2) Hanyu has a massive ardent army of supporters and defenders. ... evidently they take it personally.

It is a shame you should experience personal hostility as a new member here.

I agree with both sentiments. I would also note that many times a skater's massive ardent army of supporters and defenders (not just of Hanyu but other skaters as well) are sometimes the same posters who attack other skaters who, as they should realize and empathize with, are other people's favorites and deserve the same respect as their favorites.

I also didnt know people were so sensitive about the word choke (of course i understand why now, it just wasnt something i thought about), but I think I'll refrain from posting on here very much now. It's just not worth the hostility over such small mistakes, but thanks for being kind and empathetic! I'm hoping this thread will just end now lol

I'm also very sorry you were personally attacked. There's no excuse for such behavior, as this is a forum for an elite sport, and fans accordingly would have higher standards of behavior, you'd think.

I've also experienced hostility, sarcasm, and mean remarks over a slip-up or something I had no idea people were extra-sensitive about. This was also when I was a newer poster, and it just is uncalled for. There are many reasons I've stayed. But it's very discouraging to hear that you were attacked like this. I only just now came to read this thread, except for when it first appeared. I'm surprised that anyone objected to the word "choke," which is common usage in sports.

Perhaps it should be in the GS guidelines that if people don't like the title of a thread or the way the discussion is going, they should stay away from that thread, rather than try to control everyone else in it.

 

[Mathman]

About thread titles on GS, here are a couple of general points.

(1) The person who starts the thread cannot edit the thread title, only the admin staff can. The reason for this is that once someone else replies to the original post, the thread belongs to everyone, title and all, not just to the original poster. Changing the title after people have responded -- especially if they responded specifically about the title -- well, we don't want anyone to end up looking foolish for having responded to a title that (now) isn't there.

If a thread title does need to be changed, you can use the "report post" button to call it to the attention of the moderators. But please remember that the moderators are not online 24/7 (and for that matter do not always agree about various courses of action).

(2) The administrative staff sometimes changes the thread title to correct spelling errors, etc. But the main reason is because we want our titles to turn up near the top in Google searches for various figure skating topics, and there are some tricks to achieving this. (I personally have a very limited knowledge of this fine art, but there you are.)

Anyway, to the OP: We bark but we don't bite. Emily P rocks!

 

[blueberryhill]

Thank you both for being so understanding and polite! I'm hoping the thread will just be closed. Like I said, I'm new and I made a minor mistake. I'd really rather learn from it and just move on than have my inbox spammed and people constantly rehashing the same points on why I'm wrong. (I know I'm wrong people! Ya girl made a mistake!)

I believe that there's a way that you can disable private messaging under "General Settings". At this point if you are still receiving hostile pm's I would consider that harassment. You can report those to the moderators.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Thank you both for being so understanding and polite! I'm hoping the thread will just be closed. Like I said, I'm new and I made a minor mistake. I'd really rather learn from it and just move on than have my inbox spammed and people constantly rehashing the same points on why I'm wrong. (I know I'm wrong people! Ya girl made a mistake!)

You might want to correct your article though because that is not a minor mistake.


I also agree with the poster above; if you're being harassed via PMs, best report it! There's no reason why you should suffer that.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The protocol says otherwise. And on replay it's not entirely clear the edge.

Hanyu didn't receive an 'e' call, so it wasn't a lip even in the eyes of the person who called it, "the holy protocol". You constantly try and put this on him as some kind of last-ditch effort to make a case for Patrick Chan.

On replay his edge is clearly fine and didn't deserve even a ! call. He does 3-turns into the jump and here he is when taking off - Hanyu Flip takeoff. This should definitely be considered an acceptable Flip entrance, he isn't pressing onto the outside edge. You could say his edge is flat rather than unquestionably on the inside, but that's how a Flip is supposed to be anyway. The superficial definition of the Flip "taking off from a back inside edge" doesn't mean it's actually ideal to lean onto the inside edge for the takeoff.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

"The Holy Protocol"

I'm dead

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If I were Hanyu, I wouldn't mind. As his Flip has been ok for several seasons now. One senior B doesn't make a big deal.

Oh sweet! I guess Evgenia's "e" call at Ondrej Nepela is negligible and she shouldn't worry about it. It was at one senior B after all, which isn't a big deal, and her lutz has been ok for a quite while now.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Hanyu didn't receive an 'e' call, so it wasn't a lip even in the eyes of the person who called it, "the holy protocol". You constantly try and put this on him as some kind of last-ditch effort to make a case for Patrick Chan.

On replay his edge is clearly fine and didn't deserve even a ! call. He does 3-turns into the jump and here he is when taking off - Hanyu Flip takeoff. This should definitely be considered an acceptable Flip entrance, he isn't pressing onto the outside edge. You could say his edge is flat rather than unquestionably on the inside, but that's how a Flip is supposed to be anyway. The superficial definition of the Flip "taking off from a back inside edge" doesn't mean it's actually ideal to lean onto the inside edge for the takeoff.

Oh lordy. Since when is a flip supposed to be on a flat edge?! It's supposed to be on an inside edge. Anyone else here agree that a flip jump is supposed to be executed on a flat edge?

Also, you're acknowledging that the edge isn't unquestionably on the inside... which is synonymous with the edge being unclear. Wrong/unclear edge = Edge call.... hence, the !

Lol, and when did I even mention Patrick Chan?!

 

[Ender]

Oh sweet! I guess Evgenia's "e" call at Ondrej Nepela is negligible and she shouldn't worry about it. It was at one senior B after all, which isn't a big deal, and her lutz has been ok for a quite while now.

Because her lutz is clear e and Hanyu's Flip is correct.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Because her lutz is clear e and Hanyu's Flip is correct.

I don't think his Flip edge was particularly correct. As BOP pointed out, it was on a flat which means it is not definitively on an inside edge. If an edge is unclear, it will get an edge call. Same with if a lutz is on a flat instead of a definite outside edge. It should get a ! . There was also a gif that someone posted showing his flip up close and he actual did at the last second lean a bit outside on the edge. Plus he's received edge calls in the past so it's not news.

Of course, people will see what they want to see. It's expected that you would deny the possibility of Hanyu having a technique issue (that he's had in the past) resurface, since you're an ardent fan, and even say things like he's avoided the edge call for some time so such things are not possible. And conversely, you're not a fan of Medvedeva so it's understandable that you *wouldn't* apply the same logic you say for Hanyu, and say that because she's has no edge calls for a while, the ONM call is a fluke or not worth worrying about or whatever.

The reality is, a flutz or lip is a technical error and so skaters are prone to it (I've seen FS protocols where one flip is called normal and the second flip attempt gets an e call). Just because a skater has avoided said error for a while doesn't mean they are necessarily immune from it. It's like saying Hanyu hasn't received a << on his quad toe for years, so the 4T<< call made at ACI was just a bad call and not actually what happened on the ice.

And for the record, I think Med deserved the e call at ONM but has had a better lutz edge at previous competitions (eg Worlds/WTT). I presume both her and Hanyu are going to be respectively working on their lutz and flip edges after these competitions.

 

[Ender]

I don't think his Flip edge was particularly correct. As BOP pointed out, it was on a flat which means it is not definitively on an inside edge. If an edge is unclear, it will get an edge call. Same with if a lutz is on a flat instead of a definite outside edge. It should get a ! . There was also a gif that someone posted showing his flip up close and he actual did at the last second lean a bit outside on the edge. Plus he's received edge calls in the past so it's not news.

Of course, people will see what they want to see. It's expected that you would deny the possibility of Hanyu having a technique issue (that he's had in the past) resurface, since you're an ardent fan, and even say things like he's avoided the edge call for some time so such things are not possible. And conversely, you're not a fan of Medvedeva so it's understandable that you *wouldn't* apply the same logic you say for Hanyu, and say that because she's has no edge calls for a while, the ONM call is a fluke or not worth worrying about or whatever.

The reality is, a flutz or lip is a technical error and so skaters are prone to it (I've seen FS protocols where one flip is called normal and the second flip attempt gets an e call). Just because a skater has avoided said error for a while doesn't mean they are necessarily immune from it. It's like saying Hanyu hasn't received a << on his quad toe for years, so the 4T<< call made at ACI was just a bad call and not actually what happened on the ice.

And for the record, I think Med deserved the e call at ONM but has had a better lutz edge at previous competitions (eg Worlds/WTT). I presume both her and Hanyu are going to be respectively working on their lutz and flip edges after these competitions.

For the record, I like Medvedeva over Hanyu. I haven't even watched Hanyu's SP at SCAI frankly.

From objective view, Medvedeva has a clear flutz. There are videos on YouTube even though the people who made them are malicious.

On the other hand, the current Hanyu has a correct Flip. If you want to sway his flip as wrong, technically the majority of skaters might get wrong flip too. The point is, If they zoom in Hanyu's Flip like 1000%, it is still not wrong. The gif that someone gave was actually proving that his Flip was correct. If someone say it's wrong edge after seeing that, they're welcome to go to my husband's eye hospital for a free eye check.

And of course, people still see what they want to see, because they read something wrong and misleading on the internet so they believe it's true. For example they thought a badly executed 3 turn is a counter because someone on the forum use elaborated words to trick them into believing that. Whether or not that person believes in what they say is another matter, maybe they feel good tricking people into that.

Just because the tech panel did call or didn't call it, doesn't mean it happened. Tech panel are human too. They also give wrong calls from time to time. Because otherwise Adelina Sonitkova truly had a correct Lutz at Sochi, which everyone in the known says it's a Flutz. And of course, because the Holy Protocol calls Sonitkova's Lutz a true Lutz, it's a true Lutz.

Now, if they zoom in Medvedeva's lutz just 150%, many people already saw it's a wrong edge.

And of course, if they zoom in Daleman and Osmond's Lutz, people also say it's very questionable. However they're Canadian and not dominant so they're fine, right? People mostly hate the leaders.

Does this mean Medvedeva will get called throughout the season? Who knows... but even if she gets called, as long as she's clean, she will score very well anyway.

If they want to punish Medvedeva for her Lutz, I demand that they punish Osmond for her Flutz too. Now... in the end, if all skate clean, Medvedeva should still lead.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

If you were scarred by the experience, wait until you criticise Canadian favorites lol.
I did find the article tone harsh (a flop, dear) but I guess you write what you gotta write.