Hanyus Unexpected Free Skate Errors

[Sasha'sSpins]

I would in no way call this a choke. Choke implies that he was under great pressure to win and he wasn't. It's a challenger event in October. He had a bad skate. He's had them before and he very well might have them again.

Sheesh at this rate people will call my messing up making tea for my favourite people as choking. Over use of a term limits it's power. It's why so many people try to claim back words that have been used to hurt them in the past.

Nothing I saw changed my mind. Yuzuru will win the OGM if he stays healthy.

September actually - it's not October yet.

It's early yet. Yuzuru will be fine.

 

[ancientpeas]

Yeah.. I realized that later and couldn't be bothered to go back to edit it.

I should just have said early in the season.

 

[DorYiu]

Not to state the obvious, but he is no Medvedeva. Never has, never will.

Well said, I sometime skip competition that Medvedeva take part. We know who's going to win anyway. How sad it is to not have rivals that could rise with you in the same level. (I am off topic, I know, sorry.)

It's normal to win and not to win in competition, Yuzuru could win and he could lose too, that's what makes competition fun to watch. (And it's not unexpected, it's just classic September/ Oct.)

 

[4everchan]

i know because he said so?
am not entirely sure what is unclear about, to quote my post,



you can find another, similar quote in interspectator's post. it was the popped lz.

you opinion is wrong, because yuzuru hanyu says it's wrong.

or are you accusing him of lying? it better be based on something more than you were there and you think.

i am not accusing anyone... all i said is how do you know? Simply because at first, the 4loop was going to be a triple... and then, I expected it to be a triple... like many others.... that was one of the jumps that was mentioned would be watered down and was even taken off the SP....

So no : i simply asked where you got your facts because to a spectator like me, at the rink, without other information, the 3loop was "normal" so was the 3 flip and the beautiful combo afterwards.... so now, if you say that he wanted to do a quad loop.. .well it's interesting as i have never seen him pop a quad loop into a triple loop... or are you saying that he started wondering if he should change the program and got unfocused? That, i could understand... but i am confused at how/why he would suddenly decide to do a jump that is potentially hurting him....

in any case, i guess i am very unlucky as every time i have seen him live, it was early in the season and something went wrong.

 

[narcissa]

in any case, i guess i am very unlucky as every time i have seen him live, it was early in the season and something went wrong.

really, this type of thinking is just so toxic. no one else gets a thread for him/her after a poor showing (except maybe Gracie...but that was multiple poor showings). we talk on and on about how skaters shouldn't strive to be perfect, it's just not realistic nor mentally healthy, yet we make it seem like they owe us when we see poor skates? talk about unnecessary pressure.

yuzu is never going to be perfect this time of the year, but you can still enjoy the performance. if you don't want to or don't like his skating that's your prerogative.

 

[Yatagarasu]

or are you saying that he started wondering if he should change the program and got unfocused? That, i could understand... but i am confused at how/why he would suddenly decide to do a jump that is potentially hurting him....

that exactly.
he popped the lz and that was the trigger. the first thought on how to potentially improve his situation by changing the layout was to go for the 4lo but that was forbidden so he went for the 3lo, which you saw and are right; it wasn't a pop, it was a proper, intended 3lo. but his focus was already gone by then.

as to why he "reached" for the 4lo, there we can both just guess. my opinion is simple muscle memory. he has been practicing 4lz, 4lo, 3f all summer. then suddenly about a week or so before this, he has to stop due to knee pain; they suspended practice. we don't even know how many run-throughs he even tried with the 3lz, 3lo, 3f as a start, if any. so when the moment of urgency came, he reached for what he's used to - the 4lo - and unfortunately that was also forbidden. the 'push-pull' threw him off though and his focus was gone. he probably continued thinking about what he could do after (his quotes seem to indicate that) and it was simply put, a bust in the end.

i am sorry for what it's worth because it was unlucky. according to brian he's very well prepared actually, in stamina too but this knee thing threw them off. bad luck all around (to such an extent they even packed the wrong gloves and he had to abort wearing those right before the comp when he tried putting them on and saw two right ones it really wasn't his day) i hope you enjoyed your day though, even with this.

 

[4everchan]

really, this type of thinking is just so toxic. no one else gets a thread for him/her after a poor showing (except maybe Gracie...but that was multiple poor showings). we talk on and on about how skaters shouldn't strive to be perfect, it's just not realistic nor mentally healthy, yet we make it seem like they owe us when we see poor skates? talk about unnecessary pressure.

yuzu is never going to be perfect this time of the year, but you can still enjoy the performance. if you don't want to or don't like his skating that's your prerogative.

do you think i went there not to enjoy myself? i mentioned many times Seimei is my favourite program of his... so please do not assign toxic, to use your word, thoughts to what I said. I was hoping, like everyone in there, that we would have many great skates from many skaters. I am a fan of skating, not just of a couple skaters.

ETA and Yuzu was flawless in the SP (unfortunately for me, I was at work then)

 

[andromache]

Hanyu is not a consistent skater. It's whatever. It's not noteworthy. If Evgenia did this at her first competition of the season, sure, it would be worth dissecting and talking about. More often than not, Hanyu tends to have one brilliant program and one error-filled program. When Hanyu skates a perfect SP, he messes up the LP. When he messes up the SP, he fights back in the LP.

 

[4everchan]

that exactly.
he popped the lz and that was the trigger. the first thought on how to potentially improve his situation by changing the layout was to go for the 4lo but that was forbidden so he went for the 3lo, which you saw and are right; it wasn't a pop, it was a proper, intended 3lo. but his focus was already gone by then.

as to why he "reached" for the 4lo, there we can both just guess. my opinion is simple muscle memory. he has been practicing 4lz, 4lo, 3f all summer. then suddenly about a week or so before this, he has to stop due to knee pain; they suspended practice. we don't even know how many run-throughs he even tried with the 3lz, 3lo, 3f as a start, if any. so when the moment of urgency came, he reached for what he's used to - the 4lo - and unfortunately that was also forbidden. the 'push-pull' threw him off though and his focus was gone. he probably continued thinking about what he could do after (his quotes seem to indicate that) and it was simply put, a bust in the end.

i am sorry for what it's worth because it was unlucky. according to brian he's very well prepared actually, in stamina too but this knee thing threw them off. bad luck all around (to such an extent they even packed the wrong gloves and he had to abort wearing those right before the comp when he tried putting them on and saw two right ones it really wasn't his day) i hope you enjoyed your day though, even with this.

thanks for your reply. I understand what you meant now. I could see that the focus was off after the lutz, but i thought it was back on as the rest "seemed" to be according to plan...

and yes, I love skating, and seeing it live is so much more special. I had a wonderful day and all I can say is that I wish that I will be able to attend more and more events and later in the season would be great I am grateful to all the skaters who went and competed, even if some didn't feel ready or some were injured. Respect to these skaters!

 

[lilsailor]

not to take anything away from javi, but yuzuru was out of training for most of the week because of a sore knee... & when has yuzuru ever had an amazing first competition in the last few years

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The protocol also says Javier Fernandez has an e in his flip which I never saw before. I know Fernandez has unclear edge in the Lutz, I didn't know Fernandez Lip too. It sounds to me the tech specialist was quite strict on the Flip jump. Same thing happened to other skaters in this competition

If I were Hanyu, I wouldn't mind. As his Flip has been ok for several seasons now. One senior B doesn't make a big deal.

Other skaters who got e call for their Flip at SCAI should ask for video checks though, suddenly so many skaters Lip...

Javier has always had flip edge issues. It's why he's avoided it for many a competition. He should have it as a solo jump though because he's bound to get an edge call on it which would be applied to every other clean jump on the combo. Not particularly smart of him to do a 3F+1/2L+3S. But on its own it's still better than a 2A or something, and a lenient tech spec might give him only a !.

 

[Ender]

Javier has always had flip edge issues. It's why he's avoided it for many a competition. He should have it as a solo jump though because he's bound to get an edge call on it which would be applied to every other clean jump on the combo. Not particularly smart of him to do a 3F+1/2L+3S. But on its own it's still better than a 2A or something, and a lenient tech spec might give him only a !.

Really? I remember watching Fernandez's Lutz in close up and it was ! Almost an e. I thought skaters who have issue with Lutz edge wouldn't have issue with Flip.

 

[kiches]

As someone who was there Thursday to Saturday for nearly all practices (and very little sleep I might add, those benches are killer), I wouldn't consider this a choke either. If anything, the SP was a bit of a miracle considering how Yuzuru's practices were going.

As Yuzuru's fan who has watched him practice at a couple of events now, it seemed physically awkward for Yuzuru to do the 3lz and 3lo in his free skate practices. Many times he seemed to force himself out of the rotation and the way he entered those first two jumps gave me the sense that he was trying to push the 3lz and 3lo into the timing and rhythm of his quads in the program. The end result was something that was awkward as the set up looked very cautious and unsure, especially for the first two jumps. Yuzuru typically has very little preparation into his 3lz and 3lo, so seeing him take a slightly longer time with them in the place of the quads made for a strange picture. Overall, I think it did affect the program and made it feel more disjointed (on top of the mistakes). It actually made me wonder if he had any time to practice these new simplified layouts for both the SP and FS. During the SP practice he tried the spread eagle with 3lo a couple times, then 4S, so I got the sense that they hadn't even settled on the layout of the SP until his first practice.

Either way, I'm not really worried. I think even his reaction after the free skate seemed to show he was resigned to the fact the free skate at ACI was what it was. In terms of pressure, he clearly does put pressure on himself regardless of what competition he's at, but he seemed quite mellow here as I've seen him be very intense in the past, so I think he was trying to take it slow and pace himself as he hadn't been practicing for about a week. The SP he was able to get through spectacularly, but it's shorter and the layout was more familiar as he'd done similar in ice shows over the summer. I was expecting him to be decent with the SP and to struggle with the free and that's pretty much what happened.

In the Japanese news they said his team had had considered withdrawing, I wondered if he competed any way since he would feel guilty for all the people who bought tickets to see him and he felt he should at least get one outing with the new programs before the grand prix, even if it was going to be messy. In that sense, I think his team was attempting to do some pre-damage control for his performance by openly talking about his knee. I'm sure that wasn't the free skate he imagined delivering, but I don't think he had high expectations for it in the first place given his toned down reaction and what his team was saying about his condition.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Really? I remember watching Fernandez's Lutz in close up and it was ! Almost an e. I thought skaters who have issue with Lutz edge wouldn't have issue with Flip.

His flip entry looked pretty awkward to me, and characteristic of a lip. I had the same "oh they're gonna take a look at that" reaction as when I saw Mai's lip, so I was thoroughly unsurprised to see both of them dinged for it.

 

[Warwick360]

:shocked: I thought he was only doing Seimei again, but Chopin too?

I like Hanyu I wish he hadn't repeated the Chopin for the second time, for a third season. But ah, well. Just happy to see him back.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Regarding the thread title change, I'm confused -- it's been modified to say "Hanyu's Unexpected Free Skate Errors" but there are many posts here and in other threads indicating that this type of performance is typical for him in the early season. Or a poor FS is expected after a stellar short.

So, shouldn't it be more accurately entitled "Hanyu's Expected Free Skate Errors at Autumn Classic" (event name added because obviously we don't always expect him to have FS errors)?

 

[penguin]

I don't suppose we need to change the thread title anymore. The discussion really should have just remained in the Autumn Classic thread in the first place. We don't need a full thread just to talk about one skater's program from one comp.

 

[penguin]

I just want to say this here and ask that people please be respectful to newcomers on the site. Every platform is different and if someone makes a thread you don't think is necessary, just don't reply to it. I am obviously new here and there's no need for so many people to be so incredibly rude and I also want to note that you can't delete threads, or at least I could not for the life of me figure out how to when I noticed threads on this particular forum are usually for broader subjects only. But seriously, it was obviously just meant to create a space to talk about Yuzu's performance (because so many people were discussing it) there's no need for there to be a war over the thread title of all things and for Christ's sake, I edited it soon after posting and this website took hours to update it and is still glitching for some people, so chill out honestly.

I'm sorry you felt attacked. I don't think that was the intent of the responses on this thread. I do think maybe you're taking the replies too personally, when they're not really putting you down, they're just parsing the wording you used in the original post. (And trust me, you'll find out that parsing words within every inch of their lives is a characteristic of this site. It's not just you! It's everywhere.) Pointing out that this thread wasn't strictly necessary isn't an attack on you or your character; it's just pointing out that it wasn't necessary.

 

[penguin]

If you're getting multiple PMs, then yeah, that's probably overboard. It's safe to say the message has been sent and received. Can a mod maybe lock this thread and let it go quietly into the good night?

 

[ice coverage]

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/201.../?utm_source=sec&utm_campaign=sl&utm_medium=2

I'm totally confident that he'll come back stronger than ever but oof what a bummer after how amazing that short program was

... I didn't post so people could argue over whether or not it was unexpected, it was just a topic that everyone was talking about and since I noticed it getting buried in other threads, I thought people would benefit from just having one organized place to discuss it since so many people were talking about it and sharing theories.

... But seriously, it was obviously just meant to create a space to talk about Yuzu's performance (because so many people were discussing it) ...

.... I just made this because it seemed like a discussion everyone was having ...

Well ... to call a spade a spade, I think it is not disrespectful or rude to assume that promoting the UPI article that you wrote about Hanyu's performance at Autumn Classic was another reason that you started the thread.

So starting the thread was not "just" a matter of creating a home for discussion of Hanyu at Autumn Classic.

And my two cents are that it was disconcerting that you used the provocative word of "chokes" in the original GS thread title, whereas you did not in your article.

I'm sorry you felt attacked. I don't think that was the intent of the responses on this thread. I do think maybe you're taking the replies too personally, when they're not really putting you down, they're just parsing the wording you used in the original post. (And trust me, you'll find out that parsing words within every inch of their lives is a characteristic of this site. It's not just you! It's everywhere.) Pointing out that this thread wasn't strictly necessary isn't an attack on you or your character; it's just pointing out that it wasn't necessary.

I do hope that you will take penguin's advice not to take things personally.

My sincere wishes for good luck with your future articles and future GS posts.

Time for me to watch the presser at the media summit .