I recall some time ago, the ISU issued a letter (no. 592), threatening federations with sanctions if the "big name" skaters didn't do the Grand Prix. $peedy also mentioned some "changes" that he wanted to propose to improve ratings. Has anything been done on these? Is anything planned to be done before next season?
ISU Changes to GP
- Thread starter attyfan
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- Mar 16, 2005
I assume the ISU or Speedy's letter was a fair indication they plan to make GP manditory for the new season. I, for one am glad.
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- Jul 26, 2003
tannisming said:
Of course you are.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
I think mandatory GP is a bad idea. Skaters should be able to skip the GP due to injury and still compete at worlds like Lambiel, and I wish Plushenko had skipped the GP this year. If the GP was mandatory, great skaters would end up missing worlds due to technicalities.
Well I think it would be mandatory for skaters who aren't injured. I don't believe that the ISU will force a skater with a legitimate injury to skate in the GP. This all came down because of Yevgeny Plushenko skating shows while pulling out of events b/c of injury. If he didn't do that, you wouldn't see the ISU cracking down like this. At least Michelle has the decency and good sense not to do shows while not doing the GP (just cheesefests sanctioned by her Federation).
I'm pretty sure that Klimkin and the other injured skaters really would have preferred to skate in the GP events instead of sitting them out. I imagine that not competing cost these skaters quite a bit of income.
I'm pretty sure that Klimkin and the other injured skaters really would have preferred to skate in the GP events instead of sitting them out. I imagine that not competing cost these skaters quite a bit of income.
As long as the ISU gives notice to skaters in advance that they have to do the GP, then it is at least fair. I just didn't like the way things sounded when the letter came out -- that they would punish skaters who didn't do the GP this past season, after it was too late to do anything, and, when no one had been punished before.
There's a great difference between skating in a show and skating in a competition. Show skating doesn't demand quads and 3As and a program packed with spins and choreography. The demands on the body are much, much less.
Last night, Sasha competed in the USFS event with a groin pull. Although she did do her competition program, she still did not feel the need to push herself beyond what she was capable of with the injury. Where she could do an "intramural" competition, I doubt she would have been able to do a GP event and skate full out in that condition without further injuring herself.
I could understand that a skater with a heavy cold might want to skip a competition that required a long plane trip, because the cold could easily spread into the ears and mastoids and become a serious infection. Under Speedy's draconian pronouncement, skaters would be forced to jeopardize their health to show up on demand.
Last night, Sasha competed in the USFS event with a groin pull. Although she did do her competition program, she still did not feel the need to push herself beyond what she was capable of with the injury. Where she could do an "intramural" competition, I doubt she would have been able to do a GP event and skate full out in that condition without further injuring herself.
I could understand that a skater with a heavy cold might want to skip a competition that required a long plane trip, because the cold could easily spread into the ears and mastoids and become a serious infection. Under Speedy's draconian pronouncement, skaters would be forced to jeopardize their health to show up on demand.
I think it would be ok to make non injured skaters skate in at least one GP event. As far as Michelle goes I do somewhat understand why she has skipped the GP over the last few years! If I had been a top level skater as long as Michelle has you come to the body issue! For those who have never skated it's a lot harder on the body than most people think! Then again I question not trying out the COP before Moscow!?!? IMO Michelle is a star and can do whatever she wants. I do hope she does at least one GP to get feedback on the new programs! Good luck to her!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Speedy's ratinale for the GPs is money. I can defend skating the GPs for the ususal suspects unless injury prevents it.
It gives your new program a good international workout;
It allows you to take risks before Worlds (Olys) - quads, 3x3s);
It lets you know how you're doing with CoP.
For me, it lets me see skaters other than the usual suspects. One objection I have to the GPs is the travel. Somehow the closeness of the GP Final to a Worlds or Olys is not fair for those skaters who live far from the GP Final.
IMO, Winning a Grand Prix is not much better than winning a cheesefest, but it is 100% better to take part in it for my above-mentioned reasons. Who cares if you lose a GP?
Joe
It gives your new program a good international workout;
It allows you to take risks before Worlds (Olys) - quads, 3x3s);
It lets you know how you're doing with CoP.
For me, it lets me see skaters other than the usual suspects. One objection I have to the GPs is the travel. Somehow the closeness of the GP Final to a Worlds or Olys is not fair for those skaters who live far from the GP Final.
IMO, Winning a Grand Prix is not much better than winning a cheesefest, but it is 100% better to take part in it for my above-mentioned reasons. Who cares if you lose a GP?
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I disagree. Whenever a top elite skater does not get gold, the speculations all over the place arise immediately.Joesitz said:
I like Grand Prix, but I hate the idea of making skaters do it. Free will, anyone? For anyone who's not tired of listening to the broken record called me, I'll re-iterate my ideas. I think the problems can only be fixed by downgrading the roles of individual federations. I would like to see skaters sign a contract directly with the ISU. This way, if they skip the event (for whatever reason), they'd be fined. The details of a contract would depend on how valuable a skater is to the ISU. They could do this for the seeded skaters - 24 in total.
Mk4Eva said:
plushy is a big star too but he can't do whatever the hell he wants like michell. if someone had the right to skip the gp series this year is plush,but speedy knows the importance of having him in a comp look at what happened at worlds. that's the real reason he forced plushy to do the gp.
Rules are rules
The current rules dictate eligibility for Worlds with another criteria. As long as GP events are not qualifiers for Worlds, it seems ridiculous to require participation.
And changing the GPs to be qualifiers for Worlds would not be fair to the Federations who send skaters to Worlds. Each Federation gets to determine who gets to go with their own method at this point.
Plus, not every skater who qualifies for Worlds gets invited to GPs. That wouldn't be fair, either.
Linny
The current rules dictate eligibility for Worlds with another criteria. As long as GP events are not qualifiers for Worlds, it seems ridiculous to require participation.
And changing the GPs to be qualifiers for Worlds would not be fair to the Federations who send skaters to Worlds. Each Federation gets to determine who gets to go with their own method at this point.
Plus, not every skater who qualifies for Worlds gets invited to GPs. That wouldn't be fair, either.
Linny
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
As far as I can tell, the ISU did not come up with any new rule changes at their post-Worlds meeting. At least they did not announce anything. My guess would be that next year they will work behind the scenes to insure a successful season, rather than make proclamations and ultimatums.
Last year it didn't work out so well for the ISU. Michelle and Sasha ignored it, Piseev leaned on Plushenko and they got the GP out of him at the cost of Worlds.
MM
Last year it didn't work out so well for the ISU. Michelle and Sasha ignored it, Piseev leaned on Plushenko and they got the GP out of him at the cost of Worlds.
MM
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Some day the speculators will realize that figure skating is a sport like all the other sports where top seeds fall by the wayside from time to time.Ptichka said:
As to the Grand Prix, I was thinking more in terms of the sport and the contestants, than I was about the administration of the Grand Prix.
However, I do like your well thought out suggestion of downgrading the Feds and have the skaters contract directly with the ISU. But I doubt that could happen.
Joe
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Joesitz said:
I think a lot of us do not like seeing top seeds fall by the wayside because at some points, a lot of them are children. It's completely different when someone starts training and competing at an older age. One assumes they understand the risks.
Skaters are raised in a mindset where they may never learn to understand the risks. If you fall, get back up and keep going. No pain, no gain. How many learn when pain is serious before it's too late?
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2003
Force skaters to do the GP?, thats a joke!
The GP series is a gimmik that $peedy thought up to make cash cows out of the top skaters and keep them working for him. The GP series is only OK if the skaters have a choice of entering the series, and how much they want to participate. They should also have the option to enter as a non-scoring competitor so they won't be pressured to go to the final if they don't want to. The only value of the GP to the skaters is some want to show off a new program and get some feedback, and some younger skaters may want to do it to gain recognition.
If $peedy can force skaters to participate that would make virtual slaves of them. I don't think the USFSA will go along with that at all, and any attempt by $peedy to do so could start a rebellion, both by skaters and federations. I could even see the ISU landing in Federal Court here in the USA. Compelling people isn't cool or legal.
Also, it would be a dark day when any skater has to sign contracts with the ISU for the GP. I for one don't want to see anything done that will further empower $peedy. Figure skating needs to be rid of this man, and his followers. NOTHING that $peedy does is going to help, because he is a dishonest man who has lost the Worlds trust. I just don't understand how people can dicuss $peedy as if he has any workable plan, he doesn't. He is crooked and unredeemable! Nothing that comes from him is acceptable! $peedy must go! $peedy has very nearly ruined figure skating with his antics, will you allow him to complete the distruction?
tripleflutz
The GP series is a gimmik that $peedy thought up to make cash cows out of the top skaters and keep them working for him. The GP series is only OK if the skaters have a choice of entering the series, and how much they want to participate. They should also have the option to enter as a non-scoring competitor so they won't be pressured to go to the final if they don't want to. The only value of the GP to the skaters is some want to show off a new program and get some feedback, and some younger skaters may want to do it to gain recognition.
If $peedy can force skaters to participate that would make virtual slaves of them. I don't think the USFSA will go along with that at all, and any attempt by $peedy to do so could start a rebellion, both by skaters and federations. I could even see the ISU landing in Federal Court here in the USA. Compelling people isn't cool or legal.
Also, it would be a dark day when any skater has to sign contracts with the ISU for the GP. I for one don't want to see anything done that will further empower $peedy. Figure skating needs to be rid of this man, and his followers. NOTHING that $peedy does is going to help, because he is a dishonest man who has lost the Worlds trust. I just don't understand how people can dicuss $peedy as if he has any workable plan, he doesn't. He is crooked and unredeemable! Nothing that comes from him is acceptable! $peedy must go! $peedy has very nearly ruined figure skating with his antics, will you allow him to complete the distruction?
tripleflutz
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There are other issues involved here.
The skaters have no say as to where they will skate. The federations decide who will skate where, by drawing lots for first choice, second choice, etc. The end result may be disastrous for skaters, particularly in an Olympic year. Last year, Weir was assigned to NHK (Japan) followed by TEB (France) followed by CoR (Russia). Unused to traveling, he was exhausted by CoR and injured his foot, causing him to have to withdraw from the GPF. That injured foot had far-reaching consequences, including a disappointing Worlds.
The GP season this year is worse than ever. Here's the schedule:
Oct 20-23 Skate America
Oct 27-30 Skate Canada
Nov 3-6 TEB
Nov 17-20 Cup of China
Nov 24-27 Cup of Russia
Dec 1-4 NHK Trophy
Dec 16-18 GP Final
At least last season, the competitions were grouped by region: SA/SC (NA), then NHK, CoC (Asia), then TEB, CoR (Europe). In the 2005-2006 season, the Asian and European events are shuffled. Any North American skaters scheduled for second-half GP events will be at a huge disadvantage. Worse, the GPF will be in Asia (Japan) for the second year in a row. North American skaters won't want to make the GPF because it is a long trip just a week before Christmas and 3 weeks before Nationals.
I think few seeded skaters will choose to do 3 events in an Olympic season, and if any are injured, we will have depleted events again this year.
The skaters have no say as to where they will skate. The federations decide who will skate where, by drawing lots for first choice, second choice, etc. The end result may be disastrous for skaters, particularly in an Olympic year. Last year, Weir was assigned to NHK (Japan) followed by TEB (France) followed by CoR (Russia). Unused to traveling, he was exhausted by CoR and injured his foot, causing him to have to withdraw from the GPF. That injured foot had far-reaching consequences, including a disappointing Worlds.
The GP season this year is worse than ever. Here's the schedule:
Oct 20-23 Skate America
Oct 27-30 Skate Canada
Nov 3-6 TEB
Nov 17-20 Cup of China
Nov 24-27 Cup of Russia
Dec 1-4 NHK Trophy
Dec 16-18 GP Final
At least last season, the competitions were grouped by region: SA/SC (NA), then NHK, CoC (Asia), then TEB, CoR (Europe). In the 2005-2006 season, the Asian and European events are shuffled. Any North American skaters scheduled for second-half GP events will be at a huge disadvantage. Worse, the GPF will be in Asia (Japan) for the second year in a row. North American skaters won't want to make the GPF because it is a long trip just a week before Christmas and 3 weeks before Nationals.
I think few seeded skaters will choose to do 3 events in an Olympic season, and if any are injured, we will have depleted events again this year.
Well, if he not chosen to skate in that show which happened the same day as a GP events he supposed to be in then withdraw on account of injury. I don't think there would be a ISU letter. At least Kwan had the sense to stay off show when she was not skating in GPs. It was him who abuse the system not her.curious said:
By the way how many years Plushy competed in top level senior scene? how many years of Michelle?
Pleas don't attempt injury/sickness theories again, we heard it enough all season long already. After all it is not a injury/sickness competetion.
or wait, may be there should be a 'handicaped' FS competetion? Like they did with handicaped olymp.mzheng said:
Michelle started doing two or three of the events that became the Grand Prix (such as Skate America, etc.) back in the '93/'94 season (the Grand Prix -- with points assigned to placements, leading up to a final, didn't exist until '95/'96, when it was called the "Championship series"). This was also Michelle's twelfth trip to the World Championships; her participation streak equals or exceeds that of Sonia Henjie. I don't know when Plushy made his GP debut, but he debuted in Worlds in 1998, winning bronze. He has made six trips to Worlds (in addition to withdrawing from this year's event, he didn't go to Worlds after SLC because of his knee injury).
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