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- Jun 21, 2003
Ladies SP
- Thread starter Dodhiyel
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LKR722
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I saw Kimmie's program too and she was anything but slow and labored. Her spins were sloppy today but they are usually good along with the rest of her basic skating skills. Her spiral sequence was not her best, but she appeared to hold her positions longer than 3 seconds(I rewatched and counted). Her 3 loop was beautiful IMO. Her 3 loop and 2 axel were definitly not underrotated. If they downgraded her lutz the judges were really being harsh. I think Kimmie's programs this year are alot better than her previous programs artistically. Obviously, everyone has their own opinion.
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LKR722
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Maybe it's because judges have two different rulebooks in their pockets?
However you put it, this is exactly what's been bothering and frustrating me forever. But then again, here comes a cliche: judges are human; they all make mistakes. How lame.....
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- Sep 14, 2008
Just get over it ! ... BTW, what about sasha cohen's PCS at the Olympics 2006 or worlds 2006? At that time, PCS were probably " If you have any Problems, Sasha, you Can always come and talk to uS "
Cohen's PCS at Olympics should have been even higher. Artistically, that was the best Long Program we've seen a woman do under CoP.
If they downgraded her lutz the judges were really being harsh. I think Kimmie's programs this year are alot better than her previous programs artistically. Obviously, everyone has their own opinion.
Fair enough LKR722
I wish I could say I saw Kimmie's improvement over last season, but I'm not there yet! It is heartening to know she has passionate fans on this board willing to defend her. Tenorguy
ITA. If there were any unfairness, Fumie and Joannie's pcs should've been higher. Especially Fumie for her sp and Joannie for her lp. Fumie's short program was just marvelous, and I still can't believe her pcs was more than a full point lower than the top 3. Joannie had the second most technically sound and artistically satisfying lp. She should've at least places ahead of Irina for that portion.
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- Nov 3, 2008
I think everyone has the right to appreciate a skater or not, a performance or not, but reading sounds like children who try to say the other isn't worth meaning I'm better. I prefer the version I've done a great job (or a god job) and not the other one is horrible. All the skaters put a lot of time in their skating for performing a few minutes on the ice. In practice they use to do a god job and showing the performance is an excitement. Some days you get it, others not. So I think we can't all the time say blah to a skater, even if we don't enjoy all the same way.
Reading I think people write down without thinking. If a triple is worth less if it is badly landed or fallen than a dubble, we will get quite a lot dubbles for it isn't worth trying a tripple, despite the fact that a well done dubble gets more credit than a fallen tripple (-3 in Goe and -1 in the final score against +1 or +2 in goe with a dubble). But a pretended tripple which is under rotated is worse because in fact at that point it is not a tripple by definition, so it is a badly done dubble. So where is the point a dubble is more worth?
The fact is: is it UR, than it is cheated and should be downgrade, otherwise not, and this for every one.
I personally liked Carolina most of all the skaters today.
Reading I think people write down without thinking. If a triple is worth less if it is badly landed or fallen than a dubble, we will get quite a lot dubbles for it isn't worth trying a tripple, despite the fact that a well done dubble gets more credit than a fallen tripple (-3 in Goe and -1 in the final score against +1 or +2 in goe with a dubble). But a pretended tripple which is under rotated is worse because in fact at that point it is not a tripple by definition, so it is a badly done dubble. So where is the point a dubble is more worth?
The fact is: is it UR, than it is cheated and should be downgrade, otherwise not, and this for every one.
I personally liked Carolina most of all the skaters today.
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I saw Kimmie's program too and she was anything but slow and labored. Her spins were sloppy today but they are usually good along with the rest of her basic skating skills. Her spiral sequence was not her best, but she appeared to hold her positions longer than 3 seconds(I rewatched and counted). Her 3 loop was beautiful IMO. Her 3 loop and 2 axel were definitly not underrotated. If they downgraded her lutz the judges were really being harsh. I think Kimmie's programs this year are alot better than her previous programs artistically. Obviously, everyone has their own opinion.
I actually thought the 2 axel was a bit underrotated, coz the 3Lutz seemed fine 2me... IMHO. That's why I was surprised with the marks.
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- Jul 11, 2003
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- Jul 11, 2003
For some not-well-thought-out reason, the CoP believes doing 3 complete(?) rotations in the air with a fall is much more worthy than a less than 3 rotations with an underrotation of more than 25%. However I disagree with this, I would still want to see who measures the 25%? The Tech Team of 3 all sit on one side of the arena, and all see the same skating. No reason to have 3; one will do. However, as Communications majors know, in small groups, one person will arise as the master of the group and the others will cower.As I understand it, an underrotation is actually worse than a fall.
For situations like what happened to Kimmie, I have come up with a new over-size smiley.
............... Feel free to use it anytime...........
Solution, of course will be to place the 3 at different points of the arena and use walkie talkies to arrive at a majority except one's view may really be correct, and overruled by the others.
All jumps can have 3 rotations in the air. No big deal. If someone falls, then that someone didn't complete 3 rotations to land properly. No better than a UR and it is unsightly whereas a simple UR still gives the skater the proper poise to continue.
Figure Skating Grow Up. Get INSTANT REPLAY FOR THE FANS AS IS DONE IN OTHER SPORTS
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- Nov 16, 2005
Poor Kimmie, she can't win. Maybe she was focusing on her jumps and just rushed through her other elements. :disapp:
Is a fall really rewarded more than a ur though?
A fall on triple toe gets no point at all with a mandatory -3 GOE and -1 deduction.
A fall on triple salchow gets 0.5 and so forth.
A fall on triple flip and lutz get slightly more points than ur on respective jump. By slight, I mean 0.5 or less. Considering that fully rotating the two aforementioned jumps is deemed very difficult, the difference of 0.5 point seems justifiable.
Not that I find harsh deduction on ur fair, I just wanted to point out that falls are penalized just as much.
A fall on triple toe gets no point at all with a mandatory -3 GOE and -1 deduction.
A fall on triple salchow gets 0.5 and so forth.
A fall on triple flip and lutz get slightly more points than ur on respective jump. By slight, I mean 0.5 or less. Considering that fully rotating the two aforementioned jumps is deemed very difficult, the difference of 0.5 point seems justifiable.
Not that I find harsh deduction on ur fair, I just wanted to point out that falls are penalized just as much.
Even the British commentators were gushing over Kimmie's performance, saying that's the best performance from her for a long long time.When the score came up, they couldn't figure out why it's so low. These two usually caught lots of underrotations in their past commentary.
In slow-mo, there's no obvious underrotation at all. This CoP is really a shame.
In slow-mo, there's no obvious underrotation at all. This CoP is really a shame.
I haven't seen the performances yet but I am glad to hear that Fumie did well and Caro came second despite major mistakes.
I agree that a Caro with a couple of major mistakes would be perhaps scored higher than a clean Fumie. Fumie needs to be a lot faster than usual and her program needs to be more interesting. I think Flatt needs to be very clean to beat an okay Caro. Caro has a lot of advantages over these two ladies in her PCS. Caro's previous LP program was a very interesting one with very complicated choreos and steps. I think that she would score very high in PCS. I LOVED La Mer and Flatt performed it very nicely. But I think that she was visibly slow in her skating at SC.
I agree that a Caro with a couple of major mistakes would be perhaps scored higher than a clean Fumie. Fumie needs to be a lot faster than usual and her program needs to be more interesting. I think Flatt needs to be very clean to beat an okay Caro. Caro has a lot of advantages over these two ladies in her PCS. Caro's previous LP program was a very interesting one with very complicated choreos and steps. I think that she would score very high in PCS. I LOVED La Mer and Flatt performed it very nicely. But I think that she was visibly slow in her skating at SC.
According to some of my friends from spain, so did their eurosport spain commentators. When marks came up they were "?????". So it's not only a few of us, but also the british and spanish commentators...
Here you go. Kimmie Meisner's SP, British Eursport
http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hc0k_kimmie-meissner-08-cup-of-russia-sp_sport
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