Lastest Phil Hersh column | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Lastest Phil Hersh column

The guy does seem rather shameless at times which is why even people who hate him read his column and discuss him on skating boards.

It also doesn't help that he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about most of the time. He continues to lament the death of skating because there is no US ice princess. At least Jenny talks about relevant issues in skating!

Hmm but she also wrote several opinions on LA times.

Sure, but the Sasha piece that was called into question by Hersh was on her own personal blog. I repeat, it's not the same thing as a professionaly published piece of work.
 
Well, here is what Hersh said:

Quote:
...At least one comment suggested that Cohen's comeback after three years away from competition was nothing more than a publicity grab on her part.

Former U.S. world team member Jennifer Kirk joined that chorus,
Ah, she "joined the chorus' -- I am surprised Hersh didn't write -- "she joined the shrill chorus" or "she joined the strident chorus" -- rather than presenting her own thoughful opinion. OK.

Quote:
...writing in her Blog, ``Something about her statement doesn't add up.''
Note how Hersh just subtly changed statement. He is trying to make Kirk look guilty by spuriously associating her with those who thought that Sahsa's 'comeback' was just a publicity stunt. But what Jenny actually said was, "Something doesn't add up."

I will try again.

(a) Hersh's point is that he believes that journalists should, as a matter of principle, accept at face value the expalnations that athletes make regrading their injuries.

That is Hersh's thesis. Now he procedes to prove his thesis. Here is Hersh's argument in support of his thesis.

(b) Jenny Kirk. the skater, is a loser.

That argument ("b implies a") is a nonsensical, whether you believe (a) or not.
Mathman, You seem to be angry with Hersh for (a) twisting Jenny's words, and (b) using a false ad mulieram argument. But aren't you doing some twisting yourself?
--Judging words that you put in his mouth ("strident," "shrill") even while acknowledging he didn't use them. Not fair!
--Accusing him of misquoting Jenny ("Something about her statement doesn't add up") when he didn't (your version is the incorrect one)! (I also think you're reading way too much into the words "about her statement.")
--Accusing Hersh of mean and nonsensical logic in moving from Jenny's record to his view of ethical journalism. But his comments about Jenny's - however harsh - were not part of the argument. They were an aside in parentheses. The unspoken point was, It's easy to sit in judgment over Sasha - not so easy to do what she does - and Jenny of all people should know that. I don't think that's an unreasonable point for him to make.

IMO, there was a chorus, Jenny did join it, and she did imply (if not actually state, in fact while dancing around actually stating) that Sasha lied about her condition. Personally, I think her view of Sasha is colored by having been in direct competition with her. That's a conflict of interest, another matter of journalistic ethics, and I frankly think she should be disclosing it whenever she writes about Sasha.

If she wants to move into the journalistic big leagues she's going to have to get used to being held accountable for what she writes. That's part of the very essence of the media -- at least the way they're supposed to function. http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp What's the alternative - a closed press made up of insiders with no accountability? I hope not!
 
If she wants to move into the journalistic big leagues she's going to have to get used to being held accountable for what she writes. That's part of the very essence of the media -- at least the way they're supposed to function. http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp What's the alternative - a closed press made up of insiders with no accountability? I hope not!

Interesting post.
I thought Jenny really unloaded on Sasha and all Hersh did was give her a dose of her own medicine.

I don't see anything wrong with it and I bet Jenny learned a lesson.:yes:

Hersh will never learn :laugh:
 
--Accusing him of misquoting Jenny ("Something about her statement doesn't add up") when he didn't (your version is the incorrect one)! !

I do not have a "version." Everything in quotes in my post was copied and pasted directly from Hersh's column.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...asha-cohen-at-her-word-when-cohen-announ.html

Paragraph 5, first sentence.

Jenny's blog.

http://trueslant.com/jenniferkirk/2009/10/09/cohen-drops-from-first-grand-prix/#more-762

Paragraph 4.

Jenny goes on to say,

I don’t mean to call into question Cohen’s injury. However, if she knew she was injured she shouldn’t have skated in a show on Tuesday and then waited until the 11th hour to tell USFS that she was unable to compete next week. Unfortunately, because her withdrawal came so close to the event, it may be too late for another lady to take her spot.

Neither Hersh nor anyone else has to agree with Kirk's opinion about what Sasha should or shouldn't have done.

But to hint that Kirk is not entitled to this opinion because she skated poorly at 2005 Worlds -- come on.
 
Neither Hersh nor anyone else has to agree with Kirk's opinion about what Sasha should or shouldn't have done.

But to hint that Kirk is not entitled to this opinion because she skated poorly at 2005 Worlds -- come on.

How is it any different than for Kirk to hint "Sasha is afraid of failure."

I never saw a rebuttal from Jenny which means she probably did not have one.

It seems odd to defend one when both are playing the same game..
 
She is writting a personal blog. He writes an article for a paper. There are no ethics in blogging that I am aware of.



Sure Joannie can be criticized but saying that Joannie at her best could not beat Kim when she doesn't move is not cricism. It's ignorance.

Unfortunately.
 
It seems odd to defend one when both are playing the same game..

I don't think they are playing the same game at all. Jenny did not personally insult him, he insulted Jenny. If he has problems with her post, then he should have problems with the article he wrote about Weir.
 
How is it any different than for Kirk to hint "Sasha is afraid of failure."

"Sasha is afraid of failure" is what the blog is about. It is the opinion of the writer in this opinion piece.

Kirk's performance at 2005 Worlds is not what the story is about. It has no relevance whatever to the subject. It's like throwing, Yo mama!" into the middle of a discussion.

All Hersh needed to say was, I don't agree. I think Sasha did everything she could to meet her commitments but was just not able to do so because of the severity of her injuries.
 
Last edited:
Probably because she doesn't give a rat's **** about what Phil says.

That is certainly a possibilty.
It is also a possibilty that Hersh was 100% right and that Jenny had absolutely no information about Sasha's condition and made a very inaccurate statement with no basis in fact.

I am suggesting if Hersh was wrong so was Jenny.

Last time I checked "two wrong's don't make a right" was still an acceptable form of logic.
 
Here's a cut and paste:

Phil: "Former U.S. world team member Jennifer Kirk joined that chorus, writing in her Blog, ``Something about her statement doesn't add up.'"

Jenny: "Something about her statement doesn’t add up."

You really see a significant difference here??

Jenny has every right to criticize and question Sasha. Hersh has every right to hold her accountable for being unfair toward someone she used to compete against (usually unsuccessfully). Let's hear it for a free press! :rock:
 
That gives me an idea. Maybe for the Olympics they should all not skate but just stand there. The podium will be the same either way.
 
...and made a very inaccurate statement with no basis in fact.

She did not make a "statement of fact." She offered an opinion.

Jenny's opinion may not be flattering to Sasha, but that's the price of celebrity.
 
"Sasha is afraid of failure" is what the blog is about. It is the opinion of the writer in this opinion piece.

First of all, you are completely right about the Yo mama! point (also, hee!)

But second of all, the fact that it was an opinion piece does NOT make it okay. No matter how Jenny worded or tried to couch her blog it's simply inescapable that she was implying that Sasha was being dishonest with no factual basis for what she was saying and without attempting to get Sasha's side or do any reporting. Even newspaper opinion pieces and columns have a duty to have some sort of reporting behind their analysis. Especially when you are taking swipe at somebody's character.
 
Last edited:
"Sasha is afraid of failure" is what the blog is about. It is the opinion of the writer in this opinion piece.

Kirk's performance at 2005 Worlds is not what the story is about. It has no relevance whatever to the subject. It's like throwing, Yo mama!" into the middle of a discussion.

All Hersh needed to say was, I don't agree. I think Sasha did everything she could to meet her commitments but was just not able to do so because of the severity of her injuries.

That is a good point and it's not like I really disagree with you but there seems to be a greater issue here.

It is about what we write and as "Spun" mentioned being accountable for it.

Hersh held Jenny accountable and I have NO doubt Hersh was right.

I do agree with you he went about it in a strange way. It is ironic because Hersh accused Jenny of being unprofessional.
It does feel that Hersh was maybe more unprofessional than Jenny.

I still feel more comfortable knowing Hersh or anybody else has the right and the means to try and set the record straight.
I believe Jenny made a very vicious and personal attack on Sasha's character. I was sort of happy Hersh made it clear Jenny was full of baloney and didn't have a clue about Sasha's condition and that she made no effort to write the truth about it.

It makes me think twice about what Jenny writes - and the fact is I really enjoy Jenny's blogs and LA Times columns.
 
Here's a cut and paste:

Phil: "Former U.S. world team member Jennifer Kirk joined that chorus, writing in her Blog, ``Something about her statement doesn't add up.'"

Jenny: "Something about her statement doesn’t add up."

You really see a significant difference here??

Arrrgh. Those are exactly the same! What are you talking about? Those are exactly the words that I quoted in my post. Now I have quoted them three times. I will say it again:

"Something about her statement doesn’t add up."

And again.

"Something about her statement doesn’t add up."

And again:

"Something about her statement doesn’t add up."
 
Back
Top