Let’s dance 80’s! New Rhythm Dance article

[4everchan]

I'm not complaining because I want those songs, I am saying it doesn't make sense to me. To say a cover is never original is... well, a position. Like saying Francis Bacon's Innocence X is not originally 20th century.
Okay, it's not Bacon or Velázquez, it's pop music. Still, as a position on art - I don't agree.

I don't like the whole theme. Making a decade a topic, as if there was actually an essence of 10 years, that can be found and limited by exact (actually random, just numbers) dates - it's a narrative, nothing else. Chernobyl is pretty 80s for me, a defining event, but I'm sure that's no what they meant or want to see. They brought themselves into a weird position with this idea, no wonder the concrete questions bring weird answers.

Edit: in the end I don't think it's important, we will see some nice programs I am sure. I just think it can't be too difficult to make a slightly stronger effort to find a good theme and pattern.

I am a classical musician. Trust me, I know all too well that one cannot arbitrarily label a style only with a timeline... For instance, Rachmaninoff, (1873-1943). Aesthetically, it is romantic music. The phrasing, the emotional content, the form, the genre, even most of the harmonic language. His music is closer to 19th century music than 20th century music... So that's one example for "anachronism". But there are also other examples : for instance, people say that Baroque really ends with Bach's death in 1750. I am sure i don't need to defend the concept that not all baroque composers stopped writing music after Bach's passing. Third, there are all these composers that are in-betweeners some composers even have different phases.... For instance, Scriabin with an early Chopin like period. His mid period is very virtuoso, more like his contemporary Rachmaninoff, and then, his late works are mystical. His harmonic and melodic languages are deeply transformed over the years.

So I get what you are saying of course. But I think that with decades like 70s, 80s and 90s we can easily pinpoint not only music but styles evocative of this period... I have been invited to parties on themes from these decades and pretty much everyone could dress up in the right style ... there are even iconic drinks associated with each one... it's supposed to be fun. I think the ISU peeps think that skaters will easily connect with these themes and so will the general public. They certainly do not write rules for us, GS members

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Yeah, not saying that interpretation is wrong, just that if that's the rule it's senseless in my eyes.

It's totally senseless. It would make more sense the other way around - allowing 80's covers of earlier songs, but not allowing later remasters of 80's songs.

They may be covers of earlier songs, but at least they were recorded in the correct the decade. Later re-masters were not.

What worries me is that somebody is going to get caught out, using a song that they do not realise is a cover. (Hey, there are plenty of songs that I didn't realise were covers until somebody pointed it ot on here). Imagine the drama if another skater's team put in a protest, and got them disqualified because of the music.

I don't like this having a decade as the theme. The way the rules for this theme have been written is not clear enough. The ISU needs to be explicit in what they mean. For goodness sake, there are even different interpretations as to what constitues "the decade of the 1980s". Is it 1980 to 1989, or 1981 to 1990? (Personally, I go with the latter). With this confusion, if I was an Ice Dancer or a member of their team, I would avoid any music from either 1980 or 1990, just to be on the safe side.

And what exactly do they mean by "The selected music may be remastered"? Normally "remastered" would mean that the recording had been digitally cleaned up to get rid of scratches that were on the original record. But, as they have not made it explicitly clear what they mean, it could be the ISU's way of saying that later accoustic versions or remixes are allowed. We just don't know! Again, if I was a member of an Ice Dancing team, I wouldn't take any chances, and would just use the original recording from the 80s, scratches and all!

No, there are too many question marks because of the way the rules have been written.

I hope they don't do this sort of theme again. Or, if they do, that they don't make such a mess of writing the rules!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[theblade]

(This is just my own opinion, coming from a person that came of age partly in the '80s. Classically-trained for a time but too lazy to practice properly. Listened wide and deep in different genres. Serious club-goer from '89 onwards. Feel free to ignore.)

I don't mind the rules too much; it's an attempt to have fun. It would have been good to specify the start and finish of what they consider the '80s decade, definitely. There are a ton of '80s covers (like Soft Cell's Tainted Love cover) that are popular, but still covers. Even if they've been entirely re-imagined, I am okay with leaving them out. Only because there are so many songs and bands that had a lot of tunes coming out in the decade. It actually narrows things down a bit. So I'm not mad at that stipulation. And a lot of bands re-mastered their '80s recordings just for a cleaner sound. I would say that '80s remixes of '80s songs would count, too. But not '90s or later re-mixes of '80s songs.

I have been hearing quite a few edits of what is being skated to this season. Nothing on the timeline bubble of "is this '80s?" Much popular music from big names. One minimalist edit that I really tip my metaphorical hat to. Not a lot that's unknown or unexpected, really. Waiting to hear what many other teams are going to unveil.

 

[elbkup]

Stop Dragging My Heart Around (1981)

Stevie Nicks & Tom Petty

Stevie Nicks - Stop Draggin' My Heart Around (Official Video) [HD]

Stevie Nicks - "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" feat. Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers has been remastered in HD to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Stevie's de...

youtu.be

 

[4everchan]

It's totally senseless. It would make more sense the other way around - allowing 80's covers of earlier songs, but not allowing later remasters of 80's songs.

They may be covers of earlier songs, but at least they were recorded in the correct the decade. Later re-masters were not.

Music from the 80s has a very specific vibe and sound and even look. The rules are just fine in my opinion because they really want to capture the era. Normally, as far as I understand it, the 80s are 80-89... but I am ESL so maybe anglophones have a different take on that. For the rest, I think Iit's all much simpler than you imagine it. Perhaps as a fan, you have some worries about what works and what doesn't, but that's because you are not supposed to be an expert at choreography / music selection for ice dance. Those who do that job will know perfectly well what to pick and how to edit it to fit the RD requirements. I'd be very surprised if mishaps were to happen about music selection... I mean, these coaches/choreographers/ music editors do this job every single time... the difference here is that there is a decade associated with it, but it's because that decade is very evocative. Hip hop is evocative. Tango is clear... etc those are not linked to a specific decade because they do not need to be and are not confined in one. 80s music though is very much limited to 80s music even if there are things a bit before and after, or covers that could work out...80s music = It's "new wave" It's electronice dance music (with synthesizers... think about A-Ha's famous Take on me).. etc I don't see any issue with it as being a theme...

If you need help with 80s music

1980s in music - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[elbkup]

Prove Me Wrong
David Pack (1985))

As seen/heard in this dance sequence from White Nights

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Music from the 80s has a very specific vibe and sound and even look. The rules are just fine in my opinion because they really want to capture the era. Normally, as far as I understand it, the 80s are 80-89... but I am ESL so maybe anglophones have a different take on that. For the rest, I think Iit's all much simpler than you imagine it. Perhaps as a fan, you have some worries about what works and what doesn't, but that's because you are not supposed to be an expert at choreography / music selection for ice dance. Those who do that job will know perfectly well what to pick and how to edit it to fit the RD requirements. I'd be very surprised if mishaps were to happen about music selection... I mean, these coaches/choreographers/ music editors do this job every single time... the difference here is that there is a decade associated with it, but it's because that decade is very evocative. Hip hop is evocative. Tango is clear... etc those are not linked to a specific decade because they do not need to be and are not confined in one. 80s music though is very much limited to 80s music even if there are things a bit before and after, or covers that could work out...80s music = It's "new wave" It's electronice dance music (with synthesizers... think about A-Ha's famous Take on me).. etc I don't see any issue with it as being a theme...

If you need help with 80s music

1980s in music - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was born in the middle of the 80's, so I was very young at the end of the decade and don't remember much from the time. But, I am a music lover and do know, and like, a lot of the music. So I have a good idea of what symbolises the era.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that, although Ice Dancers tend to be older than Singles Skaters, very few of them are old enough to remember the 80's themselves. A lot of choices will be based on advice from their coaches. And they will be thinking in terms of what is likely to suit their student's style of skating, and to maximise their score.

As you say, coaches and choreographers are very experienced in making decisions like this. But, up to now, they were being given a specific style of dance as a theme. And there was no confusion over what was wanted. Using your own words for an example, "a tango is very clear". But what the ISU wants this coming season is not very clear.

From watching motorsports, I know that rules have to be explicit, otherwise teams will find loopholes and exploit them. Or they will use them to get their rivals into trouble. That is why I don't like the way that the ISU have written the rules for this 80's theme, because they are rather ambiguous. Nearly everything in them can be interpreted in different ways. And whilst we always want to see interpretation on the ice, it is not good to have it when reading the rules.

The thing that worries me is that if people who are native English speakers are having difficulty working out what exactly the rules allow for and what they don't, then you can bet that people who are not as fluent in English are having even more difficulty. And that they could potentially go down the wrong track.

We don't want to see skaters getting marked down or thrown out of competitions on technicalities related to choice of music. We want competition results to be decided based on what happens on the ice, not based on what is coming out of the speakers.

CaroLiza_fan

P.S. "Take On Me" was one of the songs I suggested using earlier in this thread! I love that song!

 

[TallyT]

I was a teen in the eighties and oh yes, I have a lot of the music in my playlists (can't see my beloved Aussie pop and pub rock being used which is a pity) but when I look at it... I am just hoping that international skaters who don't speak English don't end up picking something too outrageous

Or maybe I am hoping they do

 

[4everchan]

I was born in the middle of the 80's, so I was very young at the end of the decade and don't remember much from the time. But, I am a music lover and do know, and like, a lot of the music. So I have a good idea of what symbolises the era.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that, although Ice Dancers tend to be older than Singles Skaters, very few of them are old enough to remember the 80's themselves. A lot of choices will be based on advice from their coaches. And they will be thinking in terms of what is likely to suit their student's style of skating, and to maximise their score.

As you say, coaches and choreographers are very experienced in making decisions like this. But, up to now, they were being given a specific style of dance as a theme. And there was no confusion over what was wanted. Using your own words for an example, "a tango is very clear". But what the ISU wants this coming season is not very clear.

From watching motorsports, I know that rules have to be explicit, otherwise teams will find loopholes and exploit them. Or they will use them to get their rivals into trouble. That is why I don't like the way that the ISU have written the rules for this 80's theme, because they are rather ambiguous. Nearly everything in them can be interpreted in different ways. And whilst we always want to see interpretation on the ice, it is not good to have it when reading the rules.

The thing that worries me is that if people who are native English speakers are having difficulty working out what exactly the rules allow for and what they don't, then you can bet that people who are not as fluent in English are having even more difficulty. And that they could potentially go down the wrong track.

We don't want to see skaters getting marked down or thrown out of competitions on technicalities related to choice of music. We want competition results to be decided based on what happens on the ice, not based on what is coming out of the speakers.

CaroLiza_fan

P.S. "Take On Me" was one of the songs I suggested using earlier in this thread! I love that song!

sorry but yeah.. i think you are worrying for nothing. There have been other themes like street dance that were even wider. Anyways, I respect that you are worried, I am certainly not at all. It will be refreshing for many teams and an occasion for Lilah and Lewis to embrace once more their go-to style

 

[icewhite]

I was born in the middle of the 80's, so I was very young at the end of the decade and don't remember much from the time. But, I am a music lover and do know, and like, a lot of the music. So I have a good idea of what symbolises the era.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that, although Ice Dancers tend to be older than Singles Skaters, very few of them are old enough to remember the 80's themselves. A lot of choices will be based on advice from their coaches. And they will be thinking in terms of what is likely to suit their student's style of skating, and to maximise their score.

As you say, coaches and choreographers are very experienced in making decisions like this. But, up to now, they were being given a specific style of dance as a theme. And there was no confusion over what was wanted. Using your own words for an example, "a tango is very clear". But what the ISU wants this coming season is not very clear.

From watching motorsports, I know that rules have to be explicit, otherwise teams will find loopholes and exploit them. Or they will use them to get their rivals into trouble. That is why I don't like the way that the ISU have written the rules for this 80's theme, because they are rather ambiguous. Nearly everything in them can be interpreted in different ways. And whilst we always want to see interpretation on the ice, it is not good to have it when reading the rules.

The thing that worries me is that if people who are native English speakers are having difficulty working out what exactly the rules allow for and what they don't, then you can bet that people who are not as fluent in English are having even more difficulty. And that they could potentially go down the wrong track.

We don't want to see skaters getting marked down or thrown out of competitions on technicalities related to choice of music. We want competition results to be decided based on what happens on the ice, not based on what is coming out of the speakers.

CaroLiza_fan

P.S. "Take On Me" was one of the songs I suggested using earlier in this thread! I love that song!

I suppose they can send an email to ask if their picks are fine if they aren't sure. But I think nobody will take the rules too seriously anyway, they didn't last season... there were some special interpretations of what "latin" means...

By the way I asked my family when I saw them about the first songs and artists that come to their minds when they think "80s", and my brother said "Dirty Dancing" and such, my mother said Supertramp and ABBA - me: "what? Ma, you actually lived through that period, you tell me Supertramp and ABBA are 80s?" For me those are very 70s, although of course they had successful songs in the 80s.
Well, anyway.
Just bring on the new programs.

 

[4everchan]

I suppose they can send an email to ask if their picks are fine if they aren't sure. But I think nobody will take the rules too seriously anyway, they didn't last season... there were some special interpretations of what "latin" means...

By the way I asked my family when I saw them about the first songs and artists that come to their minds when they think "80s", and my brother said "Dirty Dancing" and such, my mother said Supertramp and ABBA - me: "what? Ma, you actually lived through that period, you tell me Supertramp and ABBA are 80s?" For me those are very 70s, although of course they had successful songs in the 80s.
Well, anyway.
Just bring on the new programs.

if you were to ask me my fave 80s music... i'd probably come up with Brahms Tragic Overture, Tchaikowsky Serenade for Strings, and Franck Piano quintet... those were all written in the 80s... 1880s.

Regarding ABBA, they did release a very popular album in 1979 and two more in the early 1980s.. I suspect (though I didn't witness this myself) that their music continued to be played for quite a while in the first half of the 80s... I do agree they have more of a 70s vibe though...

 

[kolyadafan2002]

It's totally senseless. It would make more sense the other way around - allowing 80's covers of earlier songs, but not allowing later remasters of 80's songs.

They may be covers of earlier songs, but at least they were recorded in the correct the decade. Later re-masters were not.

What worries me is that somebody is going to get caught out, using a song that they do not realise is a cover. (Hey, there are plenty of songs that I didn't realise were covers until somebody pointed it ot on here). Imagine the drama if another skater's team put in a protest, and got them disqualified because of the music.

I don't like this having a decade as the theme. The way the rules for this theme have been written is not clear enough. The ISU needs to be explicit in what they mean. For goodness sake, there are even different interpretations as to what constitues "the decade of the 1980s". Is it 1980 to 1989, or 1981 to 1990? (Personally, I go with the latter). With this confusion, if I was an Ice Dancer or a member of their team, I would avoid any music from either 1980 or 1990, just to be on the safe side.

And what exactly do they mean by "The selected music may be remastered"? Normally "remastered" would mean that the recording had been digitally cleaned up to get rid of scratches that were on the original record. But, as they have not made it explicitly clear what they mean, it could be the ISU's way of saying that later accoustic versions or remixes are allowed. We just don't know! Again, if I was a member of an Ice Dancing team, I wouldn't take any chances, and would just use the original recording from the 80s, scratches and all!

No, there are too many question marks because of the way the rules have been written.

I hope they don't do this sort of theme again. Or, if they do, that they don't make such a mess of writing the rules!

CaroLiza_fan

Just to clarify, you get a deduction for music (similar to violating rhythm requirements for PD in the old days), not disqualification. Even in old days especially at lower levels judges disagreed what was a blues and not for example.

In the terms of the 80s as a decade, I believe if its 198x then its fine I.e. 1980-89. As well as no covers, it needs to depict the 80s. If there is a movie released that is set in the 70s but produced and released in the 80s, you can't use music from that movie for example.

 

[theblade]

This year, when I've been around coaches and chorographers, most of whom are Gen X/Boomer, but some Gen Y as well, none have been outwardly in a crisis over this decade theme. And, the ones who are not English-first speakers, but other languages in Western countries (think Romance languages) - they are also having fun with the theme. Also, most major ice dancing music editors have quite a bit of knowledge about rules, picked up from working with coaches. I'm not worried about many deductions happening.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Just to clarify, you get a deduction for music (similar to violating rhythm requirements for PD in the old days), not disqualification. Even in old days especially at lower levels judges disagreed what was a blues and not for example.

Thank you for the info. And thank goodness that the penalty would "just" be a deduction, rather than something more severe.

In the terms of the 80s as a decade, I believe if its 198x then its fine I.e. 1980-89.

Well, you know my position on this, so I won't go over it again (Is this an age thing? OK, so I'm not exactly over the hill, but I do tend to be a bit old fashioned).

All I will say is that the ISU should have specified the years that they wanted in the rules. Then there would have been no confusion.

As well as no covers, it needs to depict the 80s. If there is a movie released that is set in the 70s but produced and released in the 80s, you can't use music from that movie for example.

Now that is interesting. I hadn't picked up on that. Well, I suppose that makes sense. You could have people chancing their arm and using music from biblical epics, period dramas, war films, or westerns that were made in the 1980's, but were set decades or even cenutries before the 1980's. And that is totally against the spirit of the theme. So, I am all for that.

The problem is that there are some songs that when you hear them, you think "that is so 80's", but it turns out that they are covers of a song from an earlier era. And, although there are a lot of other great songs from the 80's out there, it is a shame to see some iconic songs of the era be passed over for this reason. (I am convinced that one of the quintessentially 80's songs, Soft Cell's "Tainted Love", would make a really great Ice Dance programme. But it is not eligible because it is a cover of a 1965 Gloria Jones song).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the programmes that we do get.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

^^ Also, for a music violation deduction, it would need to receive a flag from a bunch of judges... If one or two judges don't like the selection, no penalty will be awarded...

 

[NanaPat]

I have to weigh in on what years are "the 80s". To me, it's clearly 1980-1989; it's in the name.

@CaroLiza_fan 's arguments about counting might be valid if they were calling it "the 199th decade", but they aren't. They're calling it the 80s (or the 1980s).

It's like arguments about the 20th century; there is an argument that it is 1901-2000. However, if you're talking about the 1900's, then it is 1900-1999.

I am a mathematician by training and much older, so would be much inclined to be "old-fashioned", and I am not swayed at all by the counting argument.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Music from the 80s has a very specific vibe and sound and even look. The rules are just fine in my opinion because they really want to capture the era. Normally, as far as I understand it, the 80s are 80-89... but I am ESL so maybe anglophones have a different take on that. For the rest, I think Iit's all much simpler than you imagine it. Perhaps as a fan, you have some worries about what works and what doesn't, but that's because you are not supposed to be an expert at choreography / music selection for ice dance. Those who do that job will know perfectly well what to pick and how to edit it to fit the RD requirements. I'd be very surprised if mishaps were to happen about music selection... I mean, these coaches/choreographers/ music editors do this job every single time... the difference here is that there is a decade associated with it, but it's because that decade is very evocative. Hip hop is evocative. Tango is clear... etc those are not linked to a specific decade because they do not need to be and are not confined in one. 80s music though is very much limited to 80s music even if there are things a bit before and after, or covers that could work out...80s music = It's "new wave" It's electronice dance music (with synthesizers... think about A-Ha's famous Take on me).. etc I don't see any issue with it as being a theme...

If you need help with 80s music

1980s in music - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So then would music from Fame be iffy? The film was released in 1980, but had been shot (and presumably the music had been written) in 1979 and portrayed arts school students of the late 1970s. On the other hand, there's the theme of Bruno Martelli's synthesizer music, anathema to his music teacher, and if electronic music is supposed to be 1980s.... I know a dance couple who aren't fond of competing but who every year work up two programs with their coach, the RD in the stipulated style/theme/whatever, just as a fun exercise. They've already chosen Out Here On My Own and something else from Fame for their RD. Of course, they don't have to worry about judges and deductions.

For the record, I'm an anglophone and I say the 1980s are 80-89. Whatever has the pertinent number in the third position, 8 in this case.

 

[yesterday]

Oh my, Les Mis is from 1980

Brahms Tragic Overture

 

[el henry]

Figuring out music that represents the 80s, come on, it's not that hard.

THIS is the quintessential 80s. Is it even ice danceable? I don't know. But any team that tries it will have my undying loyalty.

 

[4everchan]

Figuring out music that represents the 80s, come on, it's not that hard.

THIS is the quintessential 80s. Is it even ice danceable? I don't know. But any team that tries it will have my undying loyalty.

i think it is ice danceable since it would be paired with something else... but is completely uninteresting so i don't think anyone would use it