Lysacek's embarassingly inflated PCS scores, the reason?

[Kwanford Wife]

If that is your accessment of his skating his PCS areas are nowhere near strong enough to warrant mid-7s unless you are going to give skaters like Buttle, Lambiel, and Weir with clean performances mid-to-high 8s. You should not get the same scores in PCS as the best for just having "ok" PC qualities, which seems to be what you are conceding he has with your accessments.

I think its you're approach to critiquing Evan vs. others honestly feeling his scores are fair or inflated... but whatever. Everyone here has an opinion ~ your's is just funnier than most...

 

[slutskayafan21]

You must _really_ hate Plushenko after Torino then ....

Plushenko's PCS and spin scores, and even some of his jump GOE, are also too high and I have never liked that either. It is probably deflating to his competitors to know even if they skate perfectly and Plushenko is subpar, his undeserved mid-8s for transitions and choreography when there is almost none even if the other 3 areas are very good, and his undeserved +2s on GOE for spins, and the automatic +2s on GOE on some jumps(he deserves them on some, but not on all)locks events up for him no matter what. However since the others never skate well enough to have beaten him anyway.......

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I doubt anybody could come up with a half decent argument why Even deserves his scores unless it is:

1)he is American
2)he is the USTA's pet
3)he is a fighter(who knew you got scores for being a fighter)
4)he is not from a smaller country with no political power
5)he is a nice guy(who knew you got scores for being a nice guy)
6)his awkwardness is due to his body type(who knew you got compensation for that).

I have never seen anybody come up with an explanation of Evan's scores other than a bunch of smoke and mirrors fluff.

If your argument is correct ~ then I'd like to throw another out there... Evan is a good candidate for "male hetro face of US skating." The USFSA has made it quite clear that Johnny's off-ice antics aren't all that appreciated. Micheal Weiss has retired to that big baby-making SOI route in the pro-sky. Matt Savoie has never captured the imagination of US skating (something I've never understood...) and then you have Evan. Cute as a button, tall, rumored to be a playa on the circuit, etc.

If we are going to be honest about how political skating can be & is... then who's to say some of the above isn't true? Just a thought, not even an opinion...

 

[Vitacus]

1)his basic stroking is jerky.
- no worse than Plushenko (not the smoothest skater in the world)

I'm sorry, you've got to be kidding me? Plushenko has superb skating skills and his stroking is to die for. I don't see anything jerky about it :sheesh: I get you're on a hating mission were Plushenko is concerned but umm, it's becoming ridiculous

 

[slutskayafan21]

If your argument is correct ~ then I'd like to throw another out there... Evan is a good candidate for "male hetro face of US skating." The USFSA has made it quite clear that Johnny's off-ice antics aren't all that appreciated. Micheal Weiss has retired to that big baby-making SOI route in the pro-sky. Matt Savoie has never captured the imagination of US skating (something I've never understood...) and then you have Evan. Cute as a button, tall, rumored to be a playa on the circuit, etc.

If we are going to be honest about how political skating can be & is... then who's to say some of the above isn't true? Just a thought, not even an opinion...

Actually I never thought of that, but you are right. He absolutely fits the image the USFSA would want of their leading men, and that definitely is a strong possable factor.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I'm sorry, you've got to be kidding me? Plushenko has superb skating skills and his stroking is to die for. I don't see anything jerky about it :sheesh: I get you're on a hating mission were Plushenko is concerned but really

Plushenko's basic skating is superb, that is one thing you cant deny him IMO. To justify in their own minds the ridiculously inflated scores Evan is gifted with his fan club probably invent weaknesses of his competitors that dont exist.

 

[Vitacus]

Plushenko's basic skating is superb, that is one thing you cant deny him IMO. To justify in their own minds the ridiculously inflated scores Evan is gifted with his fan club probably invent weaknesses of his competitors that dont exist.

I thought so too. It's one thing to dislike his skating in parts but quite another to belittle and flat out make things up but whatever floats their boat

 

[Mathman]

Worn out from all those Michelle-fans versus Sasha-fans wars, I'm glad to see the gentlemen's fan clubs getting into the game. :agree:

 

[Zuzu]

If your argument is correct ~ then I'd like to throw another out there... Evan is a good candidate for "male hetro face of US skating." The USFSA has made it quite clear that Johnny's off-ice antics aren't all that appreciated. Micheal Weiss has retired to that big baby-making SOI route in the pro-sky. Matt Savoie has never captured the imagination of US skating (something I've never understood...) and then you have Evan. Cute as a button, tall, rumored to be a playa on the circuit, etc.

If we are going to be honest about how political skating can be & is... then who's to say some of the above isn't true? Just a thought, not even an opinion...

I agree with this theory. While I wasn't surprised to see the US judges hold Evan up at Nationals, I am surprised to see the international judges go for his very American style. I've often wondered if there's been some kind of "understanding" between the usfsa and isu -- hold up the favored guy whenever possible. I don't think the US is immune from political judging.

But I will say this about Evan, he is a tough competitor. This quality will get him (and has gotten him) much more success than I think his talent alone would allow him, jmo.

 

[heyang]

I think people question Plushenko's PCS because of the arm flailing that Dick Button and others pointed out during the Olympics, especially. One should be able to admit that his programs were front loaded and he did a lot of skating around during the 2nd half of his LP. Personally, I've never found Plushy's choreography to be great since I see a lot of posing as well as arm waving. during the latter part of the LP. JMHO. He is very strong technically though, which is probably why I don't care for his COI exhibition stuff - too much pandering and not enough skating, usually amusing, but not always technical.

As for Evan, his musicality is excellent, but he doesn't always have the technical details - which is very similar to Buttle IMO.

 

[attyfan]

... It is good to see a couple of "objective" skating fans like Kwanford Wife and Attyfan show up with balanced reasoning rather than the remaining flock of Evan fanboys who even have the audacity to try to deny that, and label somebody with a more accurate accessment of his skating as a "hater".

Thank you.

 

[demarinis5]

I have no opinion one way or another if Evan's scores are inflated, although I do like his skating, but imo he is not the only skater who gets inflated scores.

 

[sk8m8]

I just love these "when did you stop beating your wife" fallacious arguments that start these threads. In Critical Thinking this is known as the "loaded question" argument.

Perhaps some of our posters could benefit from visiting the following sites before they make these kinds of ridiculous statements.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

 

[kyla2]

Pathetic

The person who started this thread is bashing. She is pathological where Evan is concerned and it is apparent for all to see. There is no way on earth I will respond to her post as if her questions are legitimate because she does not want a rational discussion, she just wants a forum to vent her hate, in the guise of responding to posts.

 

[antmanb]

Ok here we go:

1)his basic stroking is jerky.
2)he is somewhat slow.
3)His posture is not that strong
4)He does not do movements on the music.
5)His skating has an immaturish juniorish quality about it.
6)his choreography is not that intricate
7)He does not skate with much emotion or expression.
8)He is angular and awkward compared to some of the other top skaters
9)He does not intrepret music that well

Compared to other top skaters like Buttle, Lambiel, Weir, Plushenko, his presentation is juniorish, it isnt even in the same league as theirs.

Actually i think all of the points you write above (excpet point number 2) apply to Pluschenko as well and Lysacek but then one difference is that Lysacek at least makes an attempt to skate to his music unlike Pluschenko who has skated the same program for seasons now completely through the music...frantic sloppy circular step in this years SP set to the quietest part of the music being the most blatant example of skating through the music i can think of. I can't give you more examples of Lysacek because i have as yet (through both digibox technical difficulties and disinterest) not gotten through an LP of Lysacek's.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Anybody I have talked to who is "objective" agrees his PCS scores are much too high BTW. The only people who have disagreed with me are the rabid fanboys.

I think Mafke asked you proivde details of why you think this is so "everybody says so" is possibly one of the weakest and most stupid arguments to put forward...especially when that "everybody" isn't around to at least give you their reasons!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Your explanation wasn't visible when I began that post, I've since answered it. And as a matter of fact, there are at least four skaters I strongly prefer to Lysacek and a couple who could easily pass him in my estimation if they stopped doing planned falls and driving me crazy with their passive-aggressive approach to skating respectively.

Yes that's right Buttle plans to fall on his quad toe - that's how its choreographed - he never intends to land the jump, in fact he goes out of his way to fall on it...:scratch: His coach usually gives him a slap when he manages to land it in practice???

Ant

 

[antmanb]

If that is your accessment of his skating his PCS areas are nowhere near strong enough to warrant mid-7s unless you are going to give skaters like Buttle, Lambiel, and Weir with clean performances mid-to-high 8s. You should not get the same scores in PCS as the best for just having "ok" PC qualities, which seems to be what you are conceding he has with your accessments.

It depends what you mean by "ok" the PCS are marked as a percentage of the prgoram for which the skater is deemed to have done those things well so if someone did ok in everything for most of the program then i don't see why 7s would be that over the top considering i think skaters like Buttle do better than ok for more of the program hence warranting 8s....the judges on the other hand mostly disagree with me!

Ant

 

[Kasey]

WHEN are we going to get rid of this particular troll? :blah:

 

[Big Deal]

I'm allright with Lysacek, but I watched the Qualifying Round on Eurosport last night.

If ANYBODY worth a 3rd place at the WorldChampionships with a shocking skate like that ( I thought, he will give it up in a certain point of his program going out of the rink), it would be better to cancel the competition or change the whole panel of the judges!!!