Patrick Chan

[Meoima]

I'm assuming the skater that you're talking about is Shoma Uno?

From what I noticed along with his interpretation and arm/hand/head movements, you can see that the pause in between allowed him to keep up/accelerate his speed in the second half, and along with matching the rise/fall of his music, plus the strong finish at the end, I can see the reasons for the high PCS scores? I thought Patrick had a fantastic free skate however *I* felt his second half ran out of steam quite a bit. I do see re-thinking his layout plus upgrading his tech will give him a better structure and even flow of his speed and his performance. Plus, I don't know what you're talking about with Patrick, but he DID have resting breaks in his FS...?

I have No comment about other skaters in Patrick's fan thread.
But it is a joke if you're saying Patrick ran out of steam quite a bit in the second half. In fact Patrick was constantly fast throughout of his program. Without fall or step out, Patrick maintained great flow in and out which has always been his strength. If you want someone keeping his speed the best from the beginning until the end, it's Patrick, not anyone else. And since your not a fan, you should refrain from posting in Patrick's fan thread. Especially when his fans don't mention anyone particularly in their post.

 

[blueberryhill]

I have No comment about other skaters in Patrick's fan thread.
But it is a joke if you're saying Patrick ran out of steam quite a bit in the second half. In fact Patrick was constantly fast throughout of his program. Without fall or step out, Patrick maintained great flow in and out which has always been his strength. If you want someone keeping his speed the best from the beginning until the end, it's Patrick, not anyone else. And since your not a fan, you should refrain from posting in Patrick's fan thread. Especially when his fans don't mention anyone particularly in their post.

Thank You!

 

[blueberryhill]

I was thinking he could turn that 3S in the second half of his program in a 4S. Would that help?

Yes! So from our lips to God's ear - Patrick's 3S will be a 4S!

Vivley, thanks for the cards (both Christmas & birthday) for Patrick. They were both stunningly beautiful!

And I hope you noticed that I've finally spelt your name right. I had been, in MULTIPLE posts, spelling it Vively. Actually, there was a good reason for it. I had always associated your name with the word "lively" and you can't possibly take offense at that. I can't promise that I'll never misspell your name again but there is good intention behind it.

On this first day of 2016, let's all just APPRECIATE what we have in our lives. We can ease back into everything else tomorrow ....

 

[lollysan]

I have No comment about other skaters in Patrick's fan thread.
But it is a joke if you're saying Patrick ran out of steam quite a bit in the second half. In fact Patrick was constantly fast throughout of his program. Without fall or step out, Patrick maintained great flow in and out which has always been his strength. If you want someone keeping his speed the best from the beginning until the end, it's Patrick, not anyone else. And since your not a fan, you should refrain from posting in Patrick's fan thread. Especially when his fans don't mention anyone particularly in their post.

But I did like his skating? Touchy touchy .

I also never said that he struggled with speed or lacked flow in his skating per se, but like I said, *I* felt that the second half of his program did not have a great build-up or finish so the *program* lacked a dynamic feel to it, thus flow. He just "seemed" to me to coast along to a lacklustre finish when he started strong for the program.

What, just because I have criticism for his free program this year, I'm TOTALLY a non-fan? Great thinking, I don't feel like I'm in high school clique at all .

 

[Meoima]

But I did like his skating? Touchy touchy .

I also never said that he struggled with speed or lacked flow in his skating per se, but like I said, *I* felt that the second half of his program did not have a great build-up or finish so the *program* lacked a dynamic feel to it, thus flow. He just "seemed" to me to coast along to a lacklustre finish when he started strong for the program.

What, just because I have criticism for his free program this year, I'm TOTALLY a non-fan? Great thinking, I don't feel like I'm in high school clique at all .

You said "Patrick ran out of steam in the second half" which is not true. Of all the men at GPF, Patrick was the one who kept his speed throughout the program best. And this has been proven by many people who have watched top men live many times, not just at GPF.
Not to mention there are various fancams and videos with various angles are available on YouTube to prove that. People shouldn't give false statement about what they see or don't. I can't lie about a skater who use over 20 crossovers in a short program and say that they only use 10. If a skater has 2 metre quad I can't lie and say that his quad is 3 metre.
Whatever Patrick "seemed" to you doesn't change the objective fact that Patrick has greater speed than most skaters at GPF and he kept that speed almost throughout of his program.
What you "feel" about a skater couldn't be translated to what most people see in reality or even just through fancam.
And since this is Patrick's fan thread, I never spend time to comment about other skaters here even though I might have many things both positive and negative about their skating.
The irony is that you come to Patrick's fan thread and imply that he lacked power or speed in the second half which he has never been criticized of even by the people who don't like his skating. Of all skaters you pick the fastest and most stable on speed to bash on his speed.

 

[tzazu]

But I did like his skating? Touchy touchy .

I also never said that he struggled with speed or lacked flow in his skating per se, but like I said, *I* felt that the second half of his program did not have a great build-up or finish so the *program* lacked a dynamic feel to it, thus flow. He just "seemed" to me to coast along to a lacklustre finish when he started strong for the program.

What, just because I have criticism for his free program this year, I'm TOTALLY a non-fan? Great thinking, I don't feel like I'm in high school clique at all .

Omg, you are really brave posting something like that here:eeking: When I read your post I thought how long it take til somebody will go ballistic? I'm really love PC, I can see his ups and downs, his strong points and his weaknesses, which he has, like any other skater in this world. But NEVER EVER wiil be allowed to mention that. About no mentioning other skaters by name,...,really? So my brave friend, I see that this is your second post in this site, so if you don't want to think that this web page is a...:shockedok, can't find the correct word, sorry, English is not my mother tongue), better if you only read but don' t say more , this is a place for only really really fans
Other options: in The Edge, or in Competions and Events, you have some interesting threads, more or less all the same, when you can discuss those arguments better

 

[Violet Bliss]

It gladdens me to see the latest photos and instagrams showing Patrick to be happy and enjoying himself and his friends.

I picture him with the jitters of coming back at the most challenging time ever in Mens figure skating behind him and getting his bearing and competitive spirits back. I hope he knows he needs not ever fear disappointing his supporters but will enjoy the training and the competitions as we want him to.

Just be your awesome self, Patrick, and have a great time this new year.

 

[Interspectator]

Omg, you are really brave posting something like that here:eeking: When I read your post I thought how long it take til somebody will go ballistic? I'm really love PC, I can see his ups and downs, his strong points and his weaknesses, which he has, like any other skater in this world. But you will NEVER EVER wiil be allowed to mention that here. So I lurk always in this thread, because from time to time can read something interesting, but I'm afraid that no more. And about no mentioning other skaters by name,...,really? So my brave friend, I see that this is your second post in this site, so if you don't want to think that this web page is a...:shockedok, can't find the correct word, sorry, English is not my mother tongue), better if you only read if you're a really lover of PC, but don' t say more
Other options: in The Edge, or in Competions and Events, you have some interesting threads, more or less all the same, when you read the same arguements once and again about some topics:dev2:

I hope everyone takes the time to read this post http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...se-read-before-posting-Rules-Links-to-Skaters
About what Fan Fest threads are for. Positive discussion please.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Omg, you are really brave posting something like that here:eeking: When I read your post I thought how long it take til somebody will go ballistic? I'm really love PC, I can see his ups and downs, his strong points and his weaknesses, which he has, like any other skater in this world. But you will NEVER EVER wiil be allowed to mention that here. So I lurk always in this thread, because from time to time can read something interesting, but I'm afraid that no more. And about no mentioning other skaters by name,...,really? :sarcasm: So my brave friend, I see that this is your second post in this site, so if you don't want to think that this web page is a...:shockedok, can't find the correct word, sorry, English is not my mother tongue), better if you only read if you're a really lover of PC, but don' t say more
Other options: in The Edge, or in Competions and Events, you have some interesting threads, more or less all the same, when you read the same arguements once and again about some topics:dev2:

Nobody has gone ballistic. Meoima, who is a great fan of Hanyu, responded on the criticism about Patrick's skating, quite rationally IMO. Generally, I do not see Patrick's fans resorting to personal disparages or broadening a distaste for a skater or one of his fans to all fans of the skater, as much as that's often what we encounter outside of this thread. Therefore, while all Patrick's fans are welcomed here, I hope a new or occasional poster will have the courtesy and good sense to abide by the general fan thread rules.

 

[tzazu]

I hope everyone takes the time to read this post http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...se-read-before-posting-Rules-Links-to-Skaters
About what Fan Fest threads are for. Positive discussion please.

You're right, sorry,I changed some things to a more positive side :sad14: if it,'s not enough, I' ll delete it

 

[lollysan]

You said "Patrick ran out of steam in the second half" which is not true. Of all the men at GPF, Patrick was the one who kept his speed throughout the program best.....etc.
Whatever Patrick "seemed" to you doesn't change the objective fact that Patrick has greater speed than most skaters at GPF and he kept that speed almost throughout of his program.
What you "feel" about a skater couldn't be translated to what most people see in reality or even just through fancam.
And since this is Patrick's fan thread, I never spend time to comment about other skaters here even though I might have many things both positive and negative about their skating.
The irony is that you come to Patrick's fan thread and imply that he lacked power or speed in the second half which he has never been criticized of even by the people who don't like his skating. Of all skaters you pick the fastest and most stable on speed to bash on his speed.

Yes fellow PC fan posters in this thread, I said that I felt that the flow and feel of the program which he performed felt like it ran out of steam half way through, like his strong speed was always steady and ended abruptly to me and did not move me like his previous performances did (with a strong beginning, middle, and end) as a viewer...in my own opinion? As in how I feel when I watched his choreo in his FS in this performance, such as how I see it, a great dancer doing a routine that I'm not in love with sort-of thing?

Now keep in mind I did assume here was an environment where I could speak about Patrick's programs as it does pertain to him, including his strengths and weaknesses for this year, so....woe is me.

But thanks tzazu and Interspectator for the heads up!

 

[qwertyskates]

Happy New Year 2016 everyone! Thank you for keeping the thread civil and (ahem) drama-free...

Since every point adds up, one thing that has been hurting Patrick is that the other skaters has been using the 10% bonus after the halfway mark and he hasn't. I think in the 2012-13 season Patrick in the SP had been trying a triple-triple combo in the second half. He scrapped that in favor of a quad combo at the beginning even though the other option netted him more points. He felt that the quad combo made more of a statement. His comment just before worlds 2013 was "There is no plan B!". It was the right decision then but maybe it's time to re-think it.

Re-watching and analyzing the GPF men's competition I noticed one skater had a 2nd quad in the second half of the program. However, he had 32 seconds of stopping/simple stroking to rest and prepare for it. 32 seconds out of a four and a half minutes is almost 12% of a program. Patrick, as we all know, uses every second of his program to showcase incredible skating skills. And yet this particular skater scored high PCS scores.

I don't want Patrick sacrificing 32 seconds of his program for a big jump but it seems like other skaters are using that tactic successfully. (Interesting enough, Kurt Browning commented on the long break/set-up by saying "He did take a break from his program, you can tell, but it was worth it.")

EXACTLY. Many criticized Patrick alot for his "robot arms" without noticing his busy moving feet but they overlook ur, long pauses and voids in the programs of others as long as there is "drama" in other places, eg dramatic hand gestures, facial expressions, soaring emotional vocals, hydroblades, cantilevers, etc. and these ultimately do win over audiences and competitions. Sadly, because he rarely slowed down, many could not "feel" the speed and momentum of his skate as there wasn't contrast between short bursts of intensity alternating with longer "nothings". This is what I meant on the other thread - if Patrick were to let the music and upper body choreography carry the job of moving the audience, allowing himself more slack in between jumps, would he be able to introduce transitions and conserve more energy for his jumps and other big elements, even pack them in the 2nd half for the bonus? Medvedeva-style. This is really a question of winning tactics going after TES marks, since his superb skating garnered at most 10pts for SS and other PCS categories.

vivley, though I posted the link, the video of John Curry's Nocturne was first mentioned and posted by MIM. I was struck by how he executed a long series of moves, changed position/direction, shifted weight, turned, varied momentum, continuously on one foot throughout the entire choreography! The demand on the core muscles, ankles, calves and knees ! The result is a breathtaking work which makes you forget about the counting, about his spread eagles, ina bauers and other "aha!" "wow!" moves, about costumes, about John Curry himself, it just holds one's attention like nothing else. However, will this quiet masterpiece allow time to set up quads or win over today's audiences in the big rink?:disapp:

Btw, is Patrick's 4S ready for competition?

I'm absolutely torn between Patrick remaining true to his old school skating or doing a volte face and start raking higher TES.

taking a deep breath....I'm fine if he decides to cut down on content and up his music, upper body choreography, preparation time and energy for quads and combos.

 

[qwertyskates]

Yes fellow PC fan posters in this thread, I said that I felt that the flow and feel of the program which he performed felt like it ran out of steam half way through, like his strong speed was always steady and ended abruptly to me and did not move me like his previous performances did (with a strong beginning, middle, and end) as a viewer...in my own opinion? As in how I feel when I watched his choreo in his FS in this performance, such as how I see it, a great dancer doing a routine that I'm not in love with sort-of thing?

Now keep in mind I did assume here was an environment where I could speak about Patrick's programs as it does pertain to him, including his strengths and weaknesses for this year, so....woe is me.

But thanks tzazu and Interspectator for the heads up!

What are you inferring? It was a Hanyu fan who refuted your post, in a way that was tactful and wasn't out of courtesy bounds.

We have politely welcomed and engaged with other posters who have pointed out what they didn't like about Patrick's skating.

tzazu's unfair, sarcastic riposte, about Patrick's fans, on the other hand....:dev2:

 

[Violet Bliss]

lollysan, welcome to the Patrick fest.

I see that you honored us with your first GS posts here. Criticism of Patrick's skating is welcomed as long as it's rational, well reasoned and substantiated, as it should be anywhere. You can of course expect responses of different opinions from yours as you would else where but especially where Patrick's fans congregrate. After all, this thread was originally opened to be a safe place for Patrick's fans who faced hostility everywhere in this forum and it became the first of the Fan Fests.

Here we are generally quite positive and civil and we do not engage in personal insults so please realize it is not necessary at all to be always preemptively defensive and personal. You are completely new so we don't know you well, nor your tones and intentions. Stay with the topic and we will not hurt you.

 

[4everchan]

As a Chan fan, I read posts like yours with a very open mind. I try to honestly see what you perceive.... simply because I like Patrick so much that I am always afraid of lacking objectivity....

So to show you how courteous we are here, and respectful of other posters who wish to express their negativity in the fan thread, I went and watched Patrick's Chopin with your comments in mind.

I think your post received a cold welcome because what you express as being your opinion is not really relevant to what we can objectively see. Patrick is fast, his program is extremely well constructed with the Fast-Slow-Fast design, which he performs extremely well with appropriate switches in musicality.
The slow section, where a lot of skaters take time to rest and breathe before the finale fast section is filled with jumps, and then he finishes brilliantly with speed and incredible footwork and transitions until the end.

A brilliantly designed and skated program.

Maybe you have the settings of your movieplayer at slow-motion by mistake ????

Finally, as Interspectator and Violet Bliss pointed out, you can express your opinions anywhere in this forum, as long as you learn to navigate its different sections. Traditionally, in this forum, the fan fest threads are where fans positively discuss their skaters, without drama, and where we share stories, pictures, links to media, and just how silly we can be as fans

In the edge, or on the competition threads, there are plenty of other occasions for you to discuss Patrick's weaknesses, with many people who will be happy to do so with you.... however, I'd be surprised that many posters would agree that Patrick is slow or lacks energy in his Free Skate....

Enjoy your time in the forum and please keep in mind what fan threads were created for. Many of us here are regular posters, coming to the one place on the forum which is drama free for us Chan fans and we simply hope to keep it as positive as it can, which I am sure now, you understand.

Yes fellow PC fan posters in this thread, I said that I felt that the flow and feel of the program which he performed felt like it ran out of steam half way through, like his strong speed was always steady and ended abruptly to me and did not move me like his previous performances did (with a strong beginning, middle, and end) as a viewer...in my own opinion? As in how I feel when I watched his choreo in his FS in this performance, such as how I see it, a great dancer doing a routine that I'm not in love with sort-of thing?

Now keep in mind I did assume here was an environment where I could speak about Patrick's programs as it does pertain to him, including his strengths and weaknesses for this year, so....woe is me.

But thanks tzazu and Interspectator for the heads up!

 

[4everchan]

lollysan, welcome to the Patrick fest.

I see that you honored us with your first GS posts here. Criticism of Patrick's skating is welcomed as long as it's rational, well reasoned and substantiated, as it should be anywhere. You can of course expect responses of different opinions from yours as you would else where but especially where Patrick's fans congregrate. After all, this thread was originally opened to be a safe place for Patrick's fans who faced hostility everywhere in this forum and it became the first of the Fan Fests.

Here we are generally quite positive and civil and we do not engage in personal insults so please realize it is not necessary at all to be always preemptively defensive and personal. You are completely new so we don't know you well, nor your tones and intentions. Stay with the topic and we will not hurt you.

thanks for pointing this out... i am relatively new to the forum and I have felt the hostility everywhere except HERE I didn't know this thread had been created for this specific purpose... I can imagine it was NECESSARY!

 

[4everchan]

Happy New Year 2016 everyone! Thank you for keeping the thread civil and (ahem) drama-free...



EXACTLY. Many criticized Patrick alot for his "robot arms" without noticing his busy moving feet but they overlook ur, long pauses and voids in the programs of others as long as there is "drama" in other places, eg dramatic hand gestures, facial expressions, soaring emotional vocals, hydroblades, cantilevers, etc. and these ultimately do win over audiences and competitions. Sadly, because he rarely slowed down, many could not "feel" the speed and momentum of his skate as there wasn't contrast between short bursts of intensity alternating with longer "nothings". This is what I meant on the other thread - if Patrick were to let the music and upper body choreography carry the job of moving the audience, allowing himself more slack in between jumps, would he be able to introduce transitions and conserve more energy for his jumps and other big elements, even pack them in the 2nd half for the bonus? Medvedeva-style. This is really a question of winning tactics going after TES marks, since his superb skating garnered at most 10pts for SS and other PCS categories.

vivley, though I posted the link, the video of John Curry's Nocturne was first mentioned and posted by MIM. I was struck by how he executed a long series of moves, changed position/direction, shifted weight, turned, varied momentum, continuously on one foot throughout the entire choreography! The demand on the core muscles, ankles, calves and knees ! The result is a breathtaking work which makes you forget about the counting, about his spread eagles, ina bauers and other "aha!" "wow!" moves, about costumes, about John Curry himself, it just holds one's attention like nothing else. However, will this quiet masterpiece allow time to set up quads or win over today's audiences in the big rink?:disapp:

Btw, is Patrick's 4S ready for competition?

I'm absolutely torn between Patrick remaining true to his old school skating or doing a volte face and start raking higher TES.

taking a deep breath....I'm fine if he decides to cut down on content and up his music, upper body choreography, preparation time and energy for quads and combos.

I don't think that's it will happen this year at all.... The logical move for him is to replace the 3T by a 4T ... if he were to add a 4S, it would happen probably right at the beginning of the program. I don't think it would be wise for him to put a new jump much later in the program where he is already tired. Actually, most often, he has done the 4T-3T and 4T back to back, right at the beginning.

Regarding doing 3Lz-3T in the short, after the 10 percent bonus, (which to be honest, I find silly since there is so much going on in such a short period of time that backloading happens almost naturally for many, and when skaters purposely even go further by not only putting the combo at the 10percent bonus mark but also another jumping pass, it looks empty at the beginning), i agree that he should do that...he has one of the best 3Lz-3T combo in the field !

 

[Violet Bliss]

thanks for pointing this out... i am relatively new to the forum and I have felt the hostility everywhere except HERE I didn't know this thread had been created for this specific purpose... I can imagine it was NECESSARY!

It was an admin who took pity on us, the kind and diligent Dorispulasky IIRC.

 

[lollysan]

What are you inferring? It was a Hanyu fan who refuted your post, in a way that was tactful and wasn't out of courtesy bounds.

We have politely welcomed and engaged with other posters who have pointed out what they didn't like about Patrick's skating.

Whoops if I saw direct quotes made by someone else which was pulled from commentators (mentioning another skater, not being subtle at all) as fair game to name them would equal unfan-like behaviour...lol: "And since your not a fan, you should refrain from posting in Patrick's fan thread. Especially when his fans don't mention anyone particularly in their post." <--Are you really sure?

I thought I made it VERY CLEAR at the start--what with the whole asterisks and all--that although I thought he performed strongly with his strengths, (AGAIN) *my* conjecture remains: he did not struggle with speed or lacked flow in his skating per se, but *I* felt that the second half of his program did not have a great build-up or finish so the *program* lacked a dynamic feel to it, thus I felt that he could improve on flow and rises/falls of the music with a layout change still. Yet I am dismissed and deemed invalid, "giving false statements about what I see or don't see" or telling me outside factors such as my settings were probably wrong just because I held a different opinion on how his skating in the FS impacted me? Yeah sure, very tactful and courteous, not condenscending at all.

Thanks for the otherwise nice welcome from the others by the way.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Happy New Year 2016 everyone! Thank you for keeping the thread civil and (ahem) drama-free...

Hear, hear.

Btw, is Patrick's 4S ready for competition?

I'm absolutely torn between Patrick remaining true to his old school skating or doing a volte face and start raking higher TES.

taking a deep breath....I'm fine if he decides to cut down on content and up his music, upper body choreography, preparation time and energy for quads and combos.

I don't think Patrick is old school at all. In fact, he pioneered the new era of jam packed program with fancy footwork throughout and quads. Coming back, he stepped down a notch on his BV but upped his performance and artistry while the new young phenoms are riding the wave of quad-filled programs with extremely high BV. He is of course in the process of raising his BV at least to the level when he left, which will make him extremely competitive for the top of the podium again. Including 4S in his program(s) next season and maybe an additional 3A either later this season or the next would make him hard to beat and a hunted one again instead of a chaser among the top Men.

He has never stepped down in his skating skills or the highest level choreography. These aspects of skating is just so uncompromisably Patrick Chan. I don't expect there would be trade off in order to add technical difficulty.

From the beginning of his skating career, Patrick has had long term plans and progresses that he follows. He adds upon a well built foundation step by step and I'm glad he does not rush but keeps his cool and to his plan.