Patrick Chan

[vivley]

Wow, a lot to read this evening...

Traditionally, in this forum, the fan fest threads are where fans positively discuss their skaters, without drama, and where we share stories, pictures, links to media, and just how silly we can be as fans
Many of us here are regular posters, coming to the one place on the forum which is drama free for us Chan fans and we simply hope to keep it as positive as it can, which I am sure now, you understand.

It was an admin who took pity on us, the kind and diligent Dorispulasky IIRC.

My everlasting thanks to Dorispulasky for starting this place!

As others have said, this is a fan fest thread, so if any discussion(s) of Patrick's "weaknesses" arise we approach them from a constructive manner, in that we talk about our concerns and what we think his challenges are, as well as what he could do to overcome those challenges. The tone of the discussion is also evident; we are concerned with what is best (in our various opinions) for Patrick as a skater, competitor and person.

Of course, we welcome all fans of Patrick and his skating here. Please do introduce yourself in a friendly manner in your first post. Tell us a little bit about how you became a Patrick fan and/or what you love about his skating so we get to know you better!

 

[vivley]

Yes! So from our lips to God's ear - Patrick's 3S will be a 4S!

Vivley, thanks for the cards (both Christmas & birthday) for Patrick. They were both stunningly beautiful!

And I hope you noticed that I've finally spelt your name right. I had been, in MULTIPLE posts, spelling it Vively. Actually, there was a good reason for it. I had always associated your name with the word "lively" and you can't possibly take offense at that. I can't promise that I'll never misspell your name again but there is good intention behind it.

On this first day of 2016, let's all just APPRECIATE what we have in our lives. We can ease back into everything else tomorrow ....

Haha, glad you enjoyed the cards. Yes, my forum name is a twist on "vively", which was an archaic synonym for "lively" anyway, so no offense taken at all! And yes, I do appreciate that on this first day of the year, we can put the past behind us and start fresh!

It gladdens me to see the latest photos and instagrams showing Patrick to be happy and enjoying himself and his friends.

I picture him with the jitters of coming back at the most challenging time ever in Mens figure skating behind him and getting his bearing and competitive spirits back. I hope he knows he needs not ever fear disappointing his supporters but will enjoy the training and the competitions as we want him to.

Agree! I think he still feels a lot of pressure not to let his countrymen and supporters down (evidenced by his comments after Skate Canada about the distractions around him). But I hope that he is able to feel the support and appreciation we have for his skating, as well as support from his coach(es), family, friends, colleagues, etc. at this time. The more the better and merrier!

This is really a question of winning tactics going after TES marks, since his superb skating garnered at most 10pts for SS and other PCS categories.

vivley, though I posted the link, the video of John Curry's Nocturne was first mentioned and posted by MIM... However, will this quiet masterpiece allow time to set up quads or win over today's audiences in the big rink?:disapp:

Btw, is Patrick's 4S ready for competition?

I'm absolutely torn between Patrick remaining true to his old school skating or doing a volte face and start raking higher TES.

taking a deep breath....I'm fine if he decides to cut down on content and up his music, upper body choreography, preparation time and energy for quads and combos.

Many thanks to MIM for posting the John Curry video! The question of whether his performance would win over today's audiences and judges is a good one, and also relates to the question of whether Patrick's style of skating is still appreciated or relevant in today's points-driven competition. Time will tell as the season goes on.

Also I think it all depends on Patrick's ultimate goals. Is his ultimate goal to win a gold medal? If so, then he should admit it and get to working right away on raising his TES. However... both he and his coach Kathy Johnson said in interviews a few months ago that he was not coming back to try to win another gold medal, and his reasons seemed to have more to do with his personal artistic goals. So now should he change them (rhetorical question)?

While I think he should up his TES and add the 4S, it will take time for him to do it in a way that allows him to remain true to his artistry and who he is. I'm sure Kathy will help him decide what to take out of his programs to do this, as well as what to add and to keep.

Right now at age 25 I think Patrick's in a challenging place in his career. From the little that I saw of his participation in the Goordeeva Ice Tribute Show, he seemed to be much more at ease and comfortable being with the other pro/show skaters. In contrast at the GPF I'm not sure that he enjoyed such a close-knit, supportive and collegial atmosphere with his competitors. However, as there are currently hardly any high-profile competitions for pro skaters to demonstrate their skills, Patrick's best avenue for showing his skills is probably still at the ISU championships and competitions.

At this point I will say that Patrick's health, happiness, motivation, attitude and how he goes about skating his performances are much more important to me than his placement on the podium (or off it). Of course I hope he does as well as he can so others can get to know and enjoy his skating as we do, but that is secondary to me.

 

[vivley]

Look at this cute cartoon sketch of Patrick in his MTK outfit - done for his birthday! :agree:

You can see a video of how the artist drew it here (if the video works) or here (account required).

Oh, and Patrick's dance video now has over 4,700 likes on Instagram 19,000 views on Facebook!

 

[Meoima]

Yes fellow PC fan posters in this thread, I said that I felt that the flow and feel of the program which he performed felt like it ran out of steam half way through, like his strong speed was always steady and ended abruptly to me and did not move me like his previous performances did (with a strong beginning, middle, and end) as a viewer...in my own opinion? As in how I feel when I watched his choreo in his FS in this performance, such as how I see it, a great dancer doing a routine that I'm not in love with sort-of thing?

Now keep in mind I did assume here was an environment where I could speak about Patrick's programs as it does pertain to him, including his strengths and weaknesses for this year, so....woe is me.

But thanks tzazu and Interspectator for the heads up!

Patrick's best speed is 7m/s and it was measured by a FS specialist (somewhere in this thread) by special software created by him. And Patrick covers ice around 20% more than most skaters with constant good speed, well pace...throughout his program. So unless you have some other numbers proven by other experts saying otherwise, it's more reliable than saying "I feel".
All those "vague" comments about something can be measured like "I feel" or "it seems" are never to be taken seriously, give me the exact number. Like how many crossovers he has done, how many seconds he took to prepare each jump, how many turns in his step sequence, the pattern of his step sequence, how was his speed during step sequence... Until you can prove that Patrick ran out of steam in the second half by reliable numbers, we will talk.

 

[lollysan]

Patrick's best speed is 7m/s and it was measured by a FS specialist (somewhere in this thread) by special software created by him. And Patrick covers ice around 20% more than most skaters with constant good speed, well pace...throughout his program. So unless you have some other numbers proven by other experts saying otherwise, it's more reliable than saying "I feel".
All those "vague" comments about something can be measured like "I feel" or "it seems" are never to be taken seriously, give me the exact number. Like how many crossovers he has done, how many seconds he took to prepare each jump, how many turns in his step sequence, the pattern of his step sequence, how was his speed during step sequence... Until you can prove that Patrick ran out of steam in the second half by reliable numbers, we will talk.

You're getting very aggressive and a wee bit hostile for an answer you're never going to like from me anyways?

I am not obligated in any way but I will continue discussing my feelings (because they are real however way you dismiss them and not synthetic by any means?) if it cools your temper I guess. I have stated *several* times that I have never said he was slow, slowing down, sluggish, less ice coverage compared to others (? like where did this come from?) in his second half. I said: "...program which he performed felt like it ran out of steam half way through, like his strong speed was ALWAYS steady [meaning yes, *I* FELT! that it started strong and stayed quick which was fantastic, but didn't peak or give enough variation along with the music to me so, it looked like he plateaus at a strong pace and kept me stoic a little in that regard] and ended abruptly to me [not enough contrasts for me with this layout and where his spins are] and [overall] did not move me like his previous performances usually do (with a strong beginning, middle, and end) as a viewer...in my own opinion? As in how I feel when I watched his choreo in his FS in this performance, such as how I see it, a great dancer doing a routine that I'm not in love with sort-of thing?"

Now, as I see it, my impression of his FS is again, *my* opinion of how his flow on the ice was great, but the choreo impacted my enjoyment of the PROGRAM and made it seem like it started strong only to taper off and lose its steam half way through. Can someone please double check for me if I stated at any time that his speed was slow or his step seq, crossovers, preparation times, turns, etc. lacked in any way or were the reasons for my cooled regard for his FS so I can clarify and simplify where possible? Thanks!

By the way, from what the kind users from this thread has advised me, they'd rather not witness all this here, so once you're done I'd like to stop visiting this convo which only goes back and forth on what I thought were pretty clear lol.

 

[qwertyskates]

Whoops if I saw direct quotes made by someone else which was pulled from commentators (mentioning another skater, not being subtle at all) as fair game to name them would equal unfan-like behaviour...lol: "And since your not a fan, you should refrain from posting in Patrick's fan thread. Especially when his fans don't mention anyone particularly in their post." <--Are you really sure?

I thought I made it VERY CLEAR at the start--what with the whole asterisks and all--that although I thought he performed strongly with his strengths, (AGAIN) *my* conjecture remains: he did not struggle with speed or lacked flow in his skating per se, but *I* felt that the second half of his program did not have a great build-up or finish so the *program* lacked a dynamic feel to it, thus I felt that he could improve on flow and rises/falls of the music with a layout change still. Yet I am dismissed and deemed invalid, "giving false statements about what I see or don't see" or telling me outside factors such as my settings were probably wrong just because I held a different opinion on how his skating in the FS impacted me? Yeah sure, very tactful and courteous, not condenscending at all.

Thanks for the otherwise nice welcome from the others by the way.

I think you need to differentiate between objective fact and subjective judgment, a very difficult but not impossible task. I don't think any poster here mentioned names while pointing out Kurt Browning's observation, but it is true that there were long periods of stroking and voids for some programs by different skaters that won medals throughout the GP series and at the GPF. This is something that can be easily verified through rewatching the videos and paying attention to the segments and details.

I rewatched Patrick's LP keeping in mind your commentary and I have to say he packed the second half with jumps, spins and right before the final spin, there were quite a series of turns and footwork. His speed and coverage throughout were huge, and constant. The Euro guys mentioned it, and they did say it might not be apparent to TV viewers.

However, there wasn't a narrative, start-middle-finish, as Chopin is abstract, so even for a program packed with difficult elements, it might not resonate with those who prefer or are used to story-telling, eg characters from movies, Carmen, Moulin Rouge, Titanic, etc.

Personally, besides jumps, I like watching the entire body in motion, and I prefer technically challenging skating to expression and performances, especially those from the upper body - face, arms, etc., while the feet are not doing that much.

It seems the audience's vote is important, and the PCS marks go up with loud applause and cheers for the emotional moments, eg. when the operatic arias come on, regardless of what the skater is doing, stroking or something simple like a spread eagle, so skaters do need to strategize differently now.

Technically, if his elements in the SP weren't voided, with a second 4T, Patrick would be looking at silver at least.

VB, This is what I meant by old-school (Colson) skating vs today's skating, it isn't so much about doing intricate, difficult steps and moves, but more about grabbing the audience, at the rink and on TV, with big jumps, big themes, big performances, made even bigger by allowing vocals. There's even talk of making the audience the judges...:disapp:

The impact of a program is now determined to a greater degree by quads, the choice of music, expressions, costumes, the whole production, than by traditional SS.

 

[vivley]

However, there wasn't a narrative, start-middle-finish, as Chopin is abstract, so even for a program packed with difficult elements, it might not resonate with those who prefer or are used to story-telling, eg characters from movies, Carmen, Moulin Rouge, Titanic, etc.

Personally, besides jumps, I like watching the entire body in motion, and I prefer technically challenging skating to expression and performances, especially those from the upper body - face, arms, etc., while the feet are not doing that much.

VB, This is what I meant by old-school (Colson) skating vs today's skating, it isn't so much about doing intricate, difficult steps and moves, but more about grabbing the audience, at the rink and on TV, with big jumps, big themes, big performances, made even bigger by allowing vocals. There's even talk of making the audience the judges...:disapp:

The impact of a program is now determined to a greater degree by quads, the choice of music, expressions, costumes, the whole production, than by traditional SS.

Hmm, then the sport becomes more like a beauty pageant or TV show like Idol, Dancing With the Stars, X-Factor, etc., don't you think? And the skaters would be expected to be like actors and make entertainment one of their main objectives - if not the main objective. While this would prepare them for turning pro, I think it would be detrimental to the sport itself.

The audience (especially a TV audience) would probably not be knowledgeable enough to recognize or judge difficult steps and moves, especially when skaters like Patrick make them seem so easy. As for abstract performances like Chopin or Elegie, they would probably treat it the same way that people treat abstract art. Some would appreciate it and others wouldn't. Most likely the impact of the program would be scored lower by audiences.

Ironically, since Patrick already has a "showy" short program in Mack the Knife, I guess he's going in the right direction, trend-wise. Now he just needs to revamp it by adding more jumps, grinning more menacingly, wearing a much more elaborate/glitzy costume, and telling the story of that gangster, then the audience will be sure to love it, eh?

But like you, I enjoy watching Patrick's entire body in motion when he skates, and his posture, carriage, angles, etc., are impeccable.

 

[4everchan]

I don't think that Patrick will remove so many transitions just to get more quads in.... Before the first 2-3 jumping passes, where he does the big tricks, he focuses on speed anyways, and it's not there that we see the most turns and steps...

I would also be surprised if he started to pose and smile to the audience and flop his arms around in an attempt to entice uproars

I think Patrick is the skatingfan ultimate skater. I think that his artistry appeals to real skating fans. And I think that he knows who he is as a skater and will not return, put himself through so much hard work and pressure, just to skate someone else's style.

I am not worried... He will skate his heart out in the style that we love him for.... I would be surprised if he started to hydroblade like crazy or uses cheap tricks to sway the public..... Actually, it's when he skates at his best, that people can appreciate the whole layout of his programs, their unity, their flow and their depth.

I'd be sad if he were going to sacrifice all of what we love about his skating just to add a silly quad.... I have said this before, when he retired, I was sad... but then, I felt... in a few years, he has done so much for the sport and I reached peace. Having him back is a huge BONUS!!!! So I enjoy his programs for what they are, winning is not a priority... judges and other skaters can do whatever they want... as long as, as a skating fan, we get some more gorgeous programs. He is so gorgeous to watch.

 

[vivley]

I would also be surprised if he started to pose and smile to the audience and flop his arms around in an attempt to entice uproars

LOL, 4everchan! On the other hand, he could if he wanted to! I was just watching his fantastic "I Need a Dollar" skate and thought he juggled that baseball hat and his jumps very well! Also, his "Dueling Cowboys" performance with Ryan Jahnke was very entertaining.

I wanted to see what he looked like when he skated with Katia Gordeeva, and I found these two great videos:
2015 Stars on Ice - St Louis Blues
2015 Stars on Ice - Finale - Shut Up and Dance

Patrick looked more bulked up last year before he lost weight, and there's no doubt in my mind that he could skate with a partner all the time if he wanted to.

Speaking of shows, here are Patrick's upcoming appearances so far:

• January 9, 2016 Skate for Dreams/Champions Ice Revue, Detroit Skating Club Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
• April 29, 2016 Stars on Ice, Halifax, NS
• May 1, 2016 Stars on Ice, Ottawa, ON
• May 6, 2016 Stars on Ice, Toronto, ON
• May 7, 2016 Stars on Ice, Hamilton, ON
• May 8, 2016 Stars on Ice, London, ON
• May 11, 2016 Stars on Ice, Winnnipeg, MB
• May 13, 2016 Stars on Ice, Edmonton, AB
• May 14, 2016 Stars on Ice, Saskatoon, SK
• May 15, 2016 Stars on Ice, Calgary, AB
• May 18, 2016 Stars on Ice, Kelowna, BC
• May 19, 2016 Stars on Ice, Vancouver, BC
• May 21, 2016 Stars on Ice, Victoria, BC

 

[Violet Bliss]

• January 9, 2016 Skate for Dreams/Champions Ice Revue, Detroit Skating Club Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
• April 29, 2016 Stars on Ice, Halifax, NS
• May 1, 2016 Stars on Ice, Ottawa, ON
• May 6, 2016 Stars on Ice, Toronto, ON
• May 7, 2016 Stars on Ice, Hamilton, ON
• May 8, 2016 Stars on Ice, London, ON
• May 11, 2016 Stars on Ice, Winnnipeg, MB
• May 13, 2016 Stars on Ice, Edmonton, AB
• May 14, 2016 Stars on Ice, Saskatoon, SK
• May 15, 2016 Stars on Ice, Calgary, AB
• May 18, 2016 Stars on Ice, Kelowna, BC
• May 19, 2016 Stars on Ice, Vancouver, BC
• May 21, 2016 Stars on Ice, Victoria, BC

What?! No Montreal?! :sad4:

 

[vivley]

What?! No Montreal?! :sad4:

Right now no date for Montreal is listed on the Stars on Ice Canada web site...

 

[4everchan]

so patrick comes everywhere but in my town... minus 3 goe (geography of exhibition)

LOL, 4everchan! On the other hand, he could if he wanted to! I was just watching his fantastic "I Need a Dollar" skate and thought he juggled that baseball hat and his jumps very well! Also, his "Dueling Cowboys" performance with Ryan Jahnke was very entertaining.

I wanted to see what he looked like when he skated with Katia Gordeeva, and I found these two great videos:
2015 Stars on Ice - St Louis Blues
2015 Stars on Ice - Finale - Shut Up and Dance

Patrick looked more bulked up last year before he lost weight, and there's no doubt in my mind that he could skate with a partner all the time if he wanted to.

Speaking of shows, here are Patrick's upcoming appearances so far:

• January 9, 2016 Skate for Dreams/Champions Ice Revue, Detroit Skating Club Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
• April 29, 2016 Stars on Ice, Halifax, NS
• May 1, 2016 Stars on Ice, Ottawa, ON
• May 6, 2016 Stars on Ice, Toronto, ON
• May 7, 2016 Stars on Ice, Hamilton, ON
• May 8, 2016 Stars on Ice, London, ON
• May 11, 2016 Stars on Ice, Winnnipeg, MB
• May 13, 2016 Stars on Ice, Edmonton, AB
• May 14, 2016 Stars on Ice, Saskatoon, SK
• May 15, 2016 Stars on Ice, Calgary, AB
• May 18, 2016 Stars on Ice, Kelowna, BC
• May 19, 2016 Stars on Ice, Vancouver, BC
• May 21, 2016 Stars on Ice, Victoria, BC

- - - Updated - - -

i guess we won't be watching him live VB

What?! No Montreal?! :sad4:

 

[4everchan]

LOL, 4everchan! On the other hand, he could if he wanted to! I was just watching his fantastic "I Need a Dollar" skate and thought he juggled that baseball hat and his jumps very well! Also, his "Dueling Cowboys" performance with Ryan Jahnke was very entertaining.

I wanted to see what he looked like when he skated with Katia Gordeeva, and I found these two great videos:
2015 Stars on Ice - St Louis Blues
2015 Stars on Ice - Finale - Shut Up and Dance

Patrick looked more bulked up last year before he lost weight, and there's no doubt in my mind that he could skate with a partner all the time if he wanted to.

[/LIST]

hehe i was referring to competition programs he can flop all he wants in exhibitions
bulked up chan :luv17: HAWT!!!

 

[vivley]

so patrick comes everywhere but in my town... minus 3 goe (geography of exhibition)
i guess we won't be watching him live VB

LOL, How about contacting SOI and petitioning them to have a show there?

During business hours, Monday through Friday, 9am to 3pm ET, please contact:

Stars on Ice Tour
c/o IMG
1360 East Ninth Street, Suite 100
Cleveland, OH 44114
216-436-3708
[email protected]

 

[4everchan]

haha you are so resourceful

LOL, How about contacting SOI and petitioning them to have a show there?

During business hours, Monday through Friday, 9am to 3pm ET, please contact:

Stars on Ice Tour
c/o IMG
1360 East Ninth Street, Suite 100
Cleveland, OH 44114
216-436-3708
[email protected]

 

[m0001]

Look at this cute cartoon sketch of Patrick in his MTK outfit - done for his birthday! :agree:

You can see a video of how the artist drew it here (if the video works) or here (account required).

Oh, and Patrick's dance video now has over 4,700 likes on Instagram 19,000 views on Facebook!

vivley, this thread has become much more interesting since you became a member here! Enjoyed all your postings! Thanks again!

 

[m0001]

LOL, How about contacting SOI and petitioning them to have a show there?

During business hours, Monday through Friday, 9am to 3pm ET, please contact:

Stars on Ice Tour
c/o IMG
1360 East Ninth Street, Suite 100
Cleveland, OH 44114
216-436-3708
[email protected]

I could be wrong vivley, is this address for Stars on Ice in the States only?

 

[vivley]

Ha, thanks, m0001. That address was the one listed on the SOI Canadian website for contact.

 

[blueberryhill]

i guess we won't be watching him live VB

Or you and VB can carpool to Ottawa. 2 Hr drive.

You know the saying - if the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.

 

[4everchan]

HAHA I think it's even a bit less than 2 hours
Ottawa is Patrick's hometown right? It might be a bit overwhelming

In Montreal, we have a mountain apparently... do not ever tell a Montrealer that it's just a hill....

Finally, I think we get offended when something isn't happening in the second largest city in the country.... but everywhere else.. you know! Boycott!!! HAHA I think I will look at my schedule though.... and may see what I can do....it's on my list of things to do before I die.... Seeing Patrick Live and seeing northern lights.... The rest, I have pretty much done... HAHA

Or you and VB can carpool to Ottawa. 2 Hr drive.

You know the saying - if the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.