After reading the article, it was interesting to see that Mr. Speedy was slamming American skaters for not competing, when the GP series first originated after two Americans, Nancy and Tonya, created the "whack" that was heard around the world. You just can't please some people.......... :sheesh: 42
$peedy wants to revamp the GP Series
- Thread starter attyfan
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Cinquanta says, "Lately, we have noticed that some countries, for instance the American federation, have not entered the best skaters they have at the Grand Prix events."
I think it is telling that Speedy is chastising the national federations (especially the USFSA), rather than the skaters. He seems to be coming from the angle that the federations have control over the decisions of their top skaters. This is probably less true in the U.S. than anywhere else.
I don't really have any advice for Michelle and others about this. Heavyweight boxing champions fight only once a year. Even though they are in top shape anyway, it takes several months of training to get into "ring shape," and another several months to recover after the fight.
If Plushenko, say, decides that it would be better for him to do a few exhibitions and fluff skates in the fall and save himself for the big events later, I have to assume that he knows what he is doing, Piseev notwithstanding.
Since nobody watches the Grand Prix events anyway, even with the top stars present, why not plan for the future and turn it into a showcase for the up-and-comers?
Mathman
I think it is telling that Speedy is chastising the national federations (especially the USFSA), rather than the skaters. He seems to be coming from the angle that the federations have control over the decisions of their top skaters. This is probably less true in the U.S. than anywhere else.
I don't really have any advice for Michelle and others about this. Heavyweight boxing champions fight only once a year. Even though they are in top shape anyway, it takes several months of training to get into "ring shape," and another several months to recover after the fight.
If Plushenko, say, decides that it would be better for him to do a few exhibitions and fluff skates in the fall and save himself for the big events later, I have to assume that he knows what he is doing, Piseev notwithstanding.
Since nobody watches the Grand Prix events anyway, even with the top stars present, why not plan for the future and turn it into a showcase for the up-and-comers?
Mathman
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
I've got a puzzled look on my face too...
I personally hope the GP series can be re-vamped however it can be re-vamped so that the top skaters are motivated to compete. That IS the figure skating season at the elite level. To me, two Cheesefests, Nationals and Worlds is not an athletic competitive season that is exciting to follow. If the skaters want more fans, more TV coverage etc. which all leads to potentially more $$ for them and the sport, then I think there needs to be a meaningful sports season to follow.
I'm sure interest in other sports would wane if there were only two serious competitions per year worth watching.
DG
I was thinking the same thing RGal. Yes, the entire series consists of a hectic schedule, especially for the reporters who attend every event to provide commentary. But the skaters only participate in 2 events to technically compete in the series. I doubt anyone tries to force them to do a third non-scoring event if they don't want to.RealtorGal said:
I personally hope the GP series can be re-vamped however it can be re-vamped so that the top skaters are motivated to compete. That IS the figure skating season at the elite level. To me, two Cheesefests, Nationals and Worlds is not an athletic competitive season that is exciting to follow. If the skaters want more fans, more TV coverage etc. which all leads to potentially more $$ for them and the sport, then I think there needs to be a meaningful sports season to follow.
I'm sure interest in other sports would wane if there were only two serious competitions per year worth watching.
DG
It's a big mistake to revamp the GPS to force today's current top skaters to participate since most of them will be gone from the scene in little over a year from now. Also, many of them are not your typical elite skater, esp Michelle. The superstars of the sport have a lot of things other than competing that demand their time. It's very easy for observers to say to just focus on the skating and give up all other aspects of life. Why shouldn't they have a life now-would any of us be open to having no romance for years, or no family life, or to giving up lucretive cheesefests that pays for your entire skating season?
Irina is not a good example to use to prove it can be done. None of the other skaters are being allowed to use steroids. I know it is necessary for her illness, but it's naive to believe it isn't helping with her stamina. She is showing more energy now than she did before her illness.
Skating fans are going to watch competitions regardless of who is competing. I always watch 4CC and there have seldom been the top echelon in the field there. The problem is the way the GPS is promoted and also the natural dying down of public interest back to pre-whack days. I watched skating for many years pre-whack and I found that the caliber of the field that was in this year's GPS was typical of what it has always been present despite the fact that a few elite skaters were missing. Speedy is overreacting to the situation IMO. During the fat years he should have been using some of the TV revenue to promote skating...if he had, we wouldn't be in the present situation.
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Irina is not a good example to use to prove it can be done. None of the other skaters are being allowed to use steroids. I know it is necessary for her illness, but it's naive to believe it isn't helping with her stamina. She is showing more energy now than she did before her illness.
Skating fans are going to watch competitions regardless of who is competing. I always watch 4CC and there have seldom been the top echelon in the field there. The problem is the way the GPS is promoted and also the natural dying down of public interest back to pre-whack days. I watched skating for many years pre-whack and I found that the caliber of the field that was in this year's GPS was typical of what it has always been present despite the fact that a few elite skaters were missing. Speedy is overreacting to the situation IMO. During the fat years he should have been using some of the TV revenue to promote skating...if he had, we wouldn't be in the present situation.
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Mathman, I agree. More intense training for numerous competitions means more wear and tear on the body, joints, muscles all take a beating when the practice is "upped" for competitions. Body weight and muscle mass also fluctuate, which can't be good in the long run..........
Less competitions or longer periods of time inbetween allows the body to heal and rest......of course the down-side may be programs not "user friendly" and not ready for prime-time competition.........definitely pros and cons there......42
Less competitions or longer periods of time inbetween allows the body to heal and rest......of course the down-side may be programs not "user friendly" and not ready for prime-time competition.........definitely pros and cons there......42
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- Dec 18, 2003
Taf2002..
Here is a link to a previous post where detailed information about the type of steroids Irina takes was discussed. In particular, look at post#23 from RGirl.
DG
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7319&page=2&pp=15&highlight=Steroids
Here is a link to a previous post where detailed information about the type of steroids Irina takes was discussed. In particular, look at post#23 from RGirl.
DG
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7319&page=2&pp=15&highlight=Steroids
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- Jul 11, 2003
If Figure Skating had the same season as Tennis does, i.e., 4 Grand Slams with the same contestants, I would say Speedy is correct, but it DOESN'T!!!. Figure Skating has the Euros, the Worlds and the Olys, and what we call cheesefests.
The loss of interest in Figure Skating is due to the lack of penalties given to judges who collaborate with other judges to fix a result. We know from SLC that that is what happened. However, only the French were implicated. No one in their right mind believes the French fixed the competition with no perceivable value to the French Federation. France was not in contention for a Pairs medal!! There had to be another Federation involved for the French to gain something from the fix, most likely Dance. Further investigation into the other collaborating Federation never took place. It was swept under the rug in the interest of figure skating.
The public both fans and general are not satisfied with just implicating the French. The public is not stupid. They now have serious reservation about the results of any competition, and if there is a scandal, the public expects that it will covered up. The public has lost interest in watching TV competitions. They do not consider it an upstanding sport.
The loss in revenue is quite substantial and this is why Speedy needs to perk up the Grand Prix events. The "stars": Kwan, Cohen, Plushenko are not keen on competing in these events, and indeed, their presence in the GPs brings in more money. As CEO of the ISU he has to ensure that money is coming into the Union for operating expenses (including his salary). Rather than working on cleaning up the system of judging so that there is never a shadow of doubt in the scores, he refuses to let the public know the names and nationalities of the judges. How can those poor judges fix a contest if their names are on public view? One of the ways is to insist that the judges' names used in the scoring be available right after the event is concluded.
Speedy should hold a top level meeting not to force the "stars" back into the GPs but to find ways and means to get the public interest back. This whole thing is a bread and butter issue for the ISU.
Joe
The loss of interest in Figure Skating is due to the lack of penalties given to judges who collaborate with other judges to fix a result. We know from SLC that that is what happened. However, only the French were implicated. No one in their right mind believes the French fixed the competition with no perceivable value to the French Federation. France was not in contention for a Pairs medal!! There had to be another Federation involved for the French to gain something from the fix, most likely Dance. Further investigation into the other collaborating Federation never took place. It was swept under the rug in the interest of figure skating.
The public both fans and general are not satisfied with just implicating the French. The public is not stupid. They now have serious reservation about the results of any competition, and if there is a scandal, the public expects that it will covered up. The public has lost interest in watching TV competitions. They do not consider it an upstanding sport.
The loss in revenue is quite substantial and this is why Speedy needs to perk up the Grand Prix events. The "stars": Kwan, Cohen, Plushenko are not keen on competing in these events, and indeed, their presence in the GPs brings in more money. As CEO of the ISU he has to ensure that money is coming into the Union for operating expenses (including his salary). Rather than working on cleaning up the system of judging so that there is never a shadow of doubt in the scores, he refuses to let the public know the names and nationalities of the judges. How can those poor judges fix a contest if their names are on public view? One of the ways is to insist that the judges' names used in the scoring be available right after the event is concluded.
Speedy should hold a top level meeting not to force the "stars" back into the GPs but to find ways and means to get the public interest back. This whole thing is a bread and butter issue for the ISU.
Joe
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- Dec 18, 2003
ITA Joe...
That suspect judging is a big contributing factor in the discussion of why figure skating is not taken 100% seriously as a sport, in terms of growing the fan base. All of your points are well put, and valid IMO. The biggest mystery to me is why the judges identities need to be kept secret, especially with the advent of COP which should theoretically be more objective.
I still contend that if the top "athletes" want their sport to be taken seriously, then they need to be willing to participate in what spectators would consider a valid competitive season. This is where the long term financial interests of the skaters comes into play IMO.
OK, I know I'm being a hard A$$.......
DG
That suspect judging is a big contributing factor in the discussion of why figure skating is not taken 100% seriously as a sport, in terms of growing the fan base. All of your points are well put, and valid IMO. The biggest mystery to me is why the judges identities need to be kept secret, especially with the advent of COP which should theoretically be more objective.
I still contend that if the top "athletes" want their sport to be taken seriously, then they need to be willing to participate in what spectators would consider a valid competitive season. This is where the long term financial interests of the skaters comes into play IMO.
OK, I know I'm being a hard A$$.......
DG
All of the comments on this subject ignore other monetary incentives skaters receive from participating in GP and other competitions. It's almost impossible to obtain any accurate information on such items as appearance fees, travel expenses, et al, but I wouldn't be suprised to know that the top skaters are earning close to or above $500,00 yearly. And this does not include income from exhibitions and sponsorships etc. which is an entirely seperate matter. Is the schedule too demanding? Only as demanding as the skater wants to make it. They decide where and or which competition and other exhibitions they participate in.
Why would skaters be getting appearance fees for the GP Events? Wouldn't that be moeny coming from the Federations and not the ISU if they did get appearance fees?
Also the skaters no longer get to choose which GP events they will do. That is under the control of the ISU and who the GP host countries invite to the event. The ISU can play around with who will be most likely to make the GP Final just by setting up more difficult fields or easier ones within the individual events.
After all, we had 3 top US men at NHK. Those who make the final usually end up with 1st and 2nd places at their events. How many people made the Final with 3rd place placements?
Also the skaters no longer get to choose which GP events they will do. That is under the control of the ISU and who the GP host countries invite to the event. The ISU can play around with who will be most likely to make the GP Final just by setting up more difficult fields or easier ones within the individual events.
After all, we had 3 top US men at NHK. Those who make the final usually end up with 1st and 2nd places at their events. How many people made the Final with 3rd place placements?
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- Sep 24, 2003
mpal2 said:
ITA. It is very obvious the ISU puts certain skaters in certain competitions just to ensure they end up in the final.
I think a way to revamp the series would be to have all the skaters draw which event they will skate in; at least it won't be the ISU controlling which competition is tougher/easier. In that respect, we may see what happened last year, when a dance team won their first event, but finished 4th in their second, and still made the GPF.
At one point, I read here that the speed skaters have a bigger voice in the ISU due to "numbers"; now shouldn't the speed skaters hold more events to bring money to the ISU proportionate to their voting power in the ISU?
As an outsider, it looks to me that figure skating is being milked to finance the entire ISU...
As an outsider, it looks to me that figure skating is being milked to finance the entire ISU...
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- Jul 11, 2003
There are many good points in this thread as to why Speedy is in an uproar over the GP events. They are losing money and TV time and they are being pushed into cable TV with less income. The biggest contributor to the ISU is the ABC TV conglomerate (Disney). I believe Canadian TV is not what it used to be, and I think European may also have declined. NASCAR has arrived for Sunday afternoons.
In order to get these TV networks on the ball, Speedy should be going after cleaning up the sport. Instead, he's putting the blame solely on three skaters, and maybe 4 or 5 next year who will opt not to skate the GPs. Why should they? They should be able to do what they want.
The avid fans will not want to think that this sport for little girls is corrupt, but it was and it may still be. The avid fans, anyway, will stick with it through thick and thin. We don't know if it is still corrupt. One way he can prove it isn't is to list the names and nationalities of the judges. But, imo, he is afraid to do that. Instead he demands the headliners for the GPs and want them penalized if they don't agree to help him make more money.
The general public will not get with a corrupt sport unless it becomes an entertaining hoax like the World Wrestling Federation. Maybe it already has?
Joe
In order to get these TV networks on the ball, Speedy should be going after cleaning up the sport. Instead, he's putting the blame solely on three skaters, and maybe 4 or 5 next year who will opt not to skate the GPs. Why should they? They should be able to do what they want.
The avid fans will not want to think that this sport for little girls is corrupt, but it was and it may still be. The avid fans, anyway, will stick with it through thick and thin. We don't know if it is still corrupt. One way he can prove it isn't is to list the names and nationalities of the judges. But, imo, he is afraid to do that. Instead he demands the headliners for the GPs and want them penalized if they don't agree to help him make more money.
The general public will not get with a corrupt sport unless it becomes an entertaining hoax like the World Wrestling Federation. Maybe it already has?
Joe
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WildRose said:
Well, my point and I believe MN's as well, no matter what illness she had, the fact was that she stayed totally away from competetions, so mentally she got a rest, physically she also got at rest.
I also agree with whoever said above that
"The pressure is psychological more than anything else. The same skaters who can't handle the full schedule with GP have no trouble with dozens of shows and even cheesefests.
"
2003 Irina skiped the Worlds but skated at COI show full season. Plushin skiped the one or two GPs but skated at show. MK skiped the GP but skated in the cheesefests. They all have their excuses: Irina's mom was ill and she needed the money. Plushin's knees was much needed a break from quad jumps while doing show is much less pressure. Michelle had the contract with USFSA to skated in cheesfests.
The pressure is psychological, but in a long term, it causes physical ill or burn out as well.
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- Jul 11, 2003
No one seems to be saying that competitors have a right to skate what they want. That they are there to satisfy the CEO of the ISU.
No one seems to be saying that the geneal public (read TV ratings) interest is down because of other reasons than Kwan not skating.
Do you really believe that one skater has so much power as to keep the GPs on the must see TV list?
Joe
No one seems to be saying that the geneal public (read TV ratings) interest is down because of other reasons than Kwan not skating.
Do you really believe that one skater has so much power as to keep the GPs on the must see TV list?
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I don't know the tenure of his position but he is very popular in European Federations so I think if he wants he will again be the head of the ISU.bronxgirl said:
Europe has the most federations and the most influence in figure skating.
Joe
Maybe Europe has the most influence in figure skating, but US Television is the main source of income for the ISU. The contract with ESPN has already been signed and the $$ has already been cut back for the term of the contract, so whatever plan Speedy has to revamp the GP will not magically increase income.
I'm just waiting to see what "ideas" Speedy has for a revamped GP. I am sure forcing skaters to compete will be part of the package. I also think he will present his plan to the ISU council as a done deal, a fait accomplit, and any objecting member FS federations will be outvoted by the speedskating members.
What really bothers me is Speedy's view of young figure skaters as indentured servants, to be manipulated as he wishes without any say in their skating careers. As of now, skaters have no say in the GP events they're assigned/invited to. Johnny Weir was given assignments in Japan, France and Russia, almost back-to-back. He ran into a problem with getting a visa for Russia because he was in Paris the week before CoR, and didn't want to have to fly back to the US to get the visa, then fly back again almost immediately to Russia. He was so exhausted from the constant travel that he re-injured his foot at the CoR gala and had to withdraw from the GPF.
I'm just waiting to see what "ideas" Speedy has for a revamped GP. I am sure forcing skaters to compete will be part of the package. I also think he will present his plan to the ISU council as a done deal, a fait accomplit, and any objecting member FS federations will be outvoted by the speedskating members.
What really bothers me is Speedy's view of young figure skaters as indentured servants, to be manipulated as he wishes without any say in their skating careers. As of now, skaters have no say in the GP events they're assigned/invited to. Johnny Weir was given assignments in Japan, France and Russia, almost back-to-back. He ran into a problem with getting a visa for Russia because he was in Paris the week before CoR, and didn't want to have to fly back to the US to get the visa, then fly back again almost immediately to Russia. He was so exhausted from the constant travel that he re-injured his foot at the CoR gala and had to withdraw from the GPF.
I really don´t consider that for an eligible skater doing 2 competitions during 9 weeks would be too exhausting? Only those that qualify for GPF would have 3 events during that period of time. I do think though that the GPF has been too exhausting as they had a short programme and two freeskates. Also the idea to have the competition in one day is not very good.
Also I think that nobody should be forced to participate in GP. If a skater wishes to stay at home and not participate in competitions, that should be okay. On the other hand that skater should not be allowed to participate in shows and cheesefests during the time of GP competitions (would loose the eligibility either totally or for a specific time).
Maybe I´m wrong but I somehow have the impression that Weir specifically wanted those GP events? BTW, Weir did not need to participate in three GP competitions. It has been his own choice.
Also I think that nobody should be forced to participate in GP. If a skater wishes to stay at home and not participate in competitions, that should be okay. On the other hand that skater should not be allowed to participate in shows and cheesefests during the time of GP competitions (would loose the eligibility either totally or for a specific time).
chuckm said:
Maybe I´m wrong but I somehow have the impression that Weir specifically wanted those GP events? BTW, Weir did not need to participate in three GP competitions. It has been his own choice.
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