Plushenko to Resume His Eligibility to skate ISU Competitions

[Olympia]

Did Mathman maybe mean singles skaters? No, that would not include Rodnina. Ack! You're on your own for this one, Math!

I know that Klimova/Ponomarenko (one of my favorite ice dance couples) might be the only skaters ever to win a medal of each color, gold, silver, and bronze. Rodnina and Henie each won three golds, I think (Rodnina with two different partners). Grafstrom won three golds plus a silver: wow!

 

[bestskate8]

Mishin Summer Camps facebook page announced that in Pinzolo Italy there will be in their team Stephane Lambiel as a coach.

its very good news, both Liza and Artur will benefit from his coaching, even Plushenko

good luck to Stephane!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

its very good news, both Liza and Artur will benefit from his coaching, even Plushenko

good luck to Stephane!

Not necessarily. While I have nothing but praise for Stephan Lambiel who turned on the musical performance with Quads, it doesn't mean he can convey that innate musical feeling by coaching. What he can do, is what every piano instructor tells his clients: Play to the beat (metronome) of the music. It's up to the skater to take it to another level.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see Plush or Joubert skate competitively to Rachmaninov?

 

[Jaana]

I agree with Joe! Lambiel has a wonderful feeling towards music in himself. If another person does not have it, it cannot be taught. On the other hand a clever choreography can hide sooo much (just thinking how Tarasova managed to fool people, most of them started to believe that Yagudin is an artistic skater ).

 

[seniorita]

^ No, it wouldnt be interesting at all. Not all skaters are Mao Asada, why should they skate such difficult pieces like Rachmaninof, Rippon did and in my opinion he didnt pay justice to it.
But if Lysacek skated to Stravinsky then I guess they can also pull it off as well, at least that.
If Nichol managed to make Lysacek look 1% musical, it was much easier with Tarasova, cause Yagudin had charisma in spades and was naturally musical, all he needed was a new coach to show his heart to people.

I disagree about SLC btw, Plushenko in MJ (which is a program I dont care much about) was saved because he sold his program as he never did all season, despite the fall on quad, every step is up to the beat. And I dont find his presentation the same there as Nijinski of 2004 for example, mark me a die-hard fan of course, I just dont see any connection in presentation or interpretation of those two programs.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Did Mathman maybe mean singles skaters? No, that would not include Rodnina. Ack! You're on your own for this one, Math!

I know that Klimova/Ponomarenko (one of my favorite ice dance couples) might be the only skaters ever to win a medal of each color, gold, silver, and bronze. Rodnina and Henie each won three golds, I think (Rodnina with two different partners). Grafstrom won three golds plus a silver: wow!

There were a lot of Soviet wins on MM's list - not all of them about Singles. Of course, the question of Henie's dad buying her win can't be traced to cheating in scoring. And finally, who cares at this point?

 

[Olympia]

^ No, it wouldnt be interesting at all. Not all skaters are Mao Asada, why should they skate such difficult pieces like Rachmaninof, Rippon did and in my opinion he didnt pay justice to it.
But if Lysacek skated to Stravinsky then I guess they can also pull it off as well, at least that.
If Nichol managed to make Lysacek look 1% musical, it was much easier with Tarasova, cause Yagudin had charisma in spades and was naturally musical, all he needed was a new coach to show his heart to people.

I agree with you about Yagudin. Comparing him to Lambiel is a waste of time for me, because he's musical in a different way. No one can be like Stephane, but Alexei definitely does have a connection with the music, and with the emotion that music inspires in listeners. He reminds me of Baryshikov in that way--the first time I saw Baryshikov perform (in one of his films), I was impressed at the unadorned quality of his movements: it was as if he were having a personal conversation with me. That's the feeling I always got from Yagudin. And he was getting even better as a pro until his hip problems shut down his career.

Agreed also: I don't see Plushy skating to Rachmaninoff in a way I'd enjoy the interpretation. On the other hand, I'd love to see Asada skate to the first two sections of Rachmaninoff's Second Suite for Two Pianos.

 

[seniorita]

^ we almost always agree But as i said to a very dear friend today, sentences like Lambiel is musical, Evgeni is not, Takahashi is artistic, Chan is not, Yuna is emoting, Mao is not etc..tend to sound like a fact here while it is only just one''s opinions, it took me a lot of time here to understand that there is no reason to debate such stuff because it is completely subjective how a skater projects to you and there is no way you can change the mind or someone and usually mine hasnt changed also, exception was once Joubert that it took me only 5 minutes live to understand I was wrong the years before.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
Naming musical skaters should be accompanied by a reason and in accordance with Musical and Presentation Rules.
Nothing wrong with Evgeni's timing, but his Presentation is limited to a certain beat of the rhythm. It's quite simple, and a few other skaters are capable of more complex rhythms to show better rhyfhm I believe his huge jumping skills together with his attitude is what gives him his throngs of fans. I wouldn't worry to much about this senorita because so few skaters do have musical skills. My opinion is that the CoP does not emphasize musicality. They have tried a bit by insisting competitors to use transitions into jumps, but do those transitions come with musicality? or are they just another thing for the skaters to do?

 

[seniorita]

^^^
Naming musical skaters should be accompanied by a reason and in accordance with Musical and Presentation Rules.
Nothing wrong with Evgeni's timing, but his Presentation is limited to a certain beat of the rhythm. It's quite simple, and a few other skaters are capable of more complex rhythms to show better rhyfhm

I do believe the exact same. And it feels fine.

They have tried a bit by insisting competitors to use transitions into jumps, but do those transitions come with musicality? or are they just another thing for the skaters to do?

:thumbsup:

 

[Olympia]

On the other hand...

To me, a musical skater is a skater who brings me into the music. I see the skating of someone like Asada as an organic whole; I don't analyze it according to a rule book. (They change the rules every year, anyway.) As Seniorita says, a lot of what a viewer receives from a skater is subjective.

To me, a skater brings a piece of music alive (or doesn't). I couldn't cite a specific rule to back that up. It doesn't bother me that some other fan has a different take on the matter. This is what I get out of skating, and why I come back to it. So I love skaters such as Asada, Browning, Kwan, Lambiel, Janet Lynn, Gordeyeva, and others because they give me the music, or maybe they bring me into the music. It doesn't mean they are musical instead of being technical--obviously technique is very important to their effectiveness. But whatever skating magic is, they have it. I can't get any more precise about it.

 

[miki88]

On the other hand...

To me, a musical skater is a skater who brings me into the music. I see the skating of someone like Asada as an organic whole; I don't analyze it according to a rule book. (They change the rules every year, anyway.) As Seniorita says, a lot of what a viewer receives from a skater is subjective.

To me, a skater brings a piece of music alive (or doesn't). I couldn't cite a specific rule to back that up. It doesn't bother me that some other fan has a different take on the matter. This is what I get out of skating, and why I come back to it. So I love skaters such as Asada, Browning, Kwan, Lambiel, Janet Lynn, Gordeyeva, and others because they give me the music, or maybe they bring me into the music. It doesn't mean they are musical instead of being technical--obviously technique is very important to their effectiveness. But whatever skating magic is, they have it. I can't get any more precise about it.

Wonderful post, Olympia. I couldn't have said it better myself.

On the topic of Plushenko, I personally think he had considerable artistic potential. It was more evident when he was younger. Unfortunately, he was saddled with Mishisque choreography all those years, so that potential was never properly or fully realized.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

When speaking of the Whole Program, the use of music is included. The names, Olympia dropped were all very musical to begin with. Others had to rely on a good choreographer to show most skaters how to use nuances. Plushenko's nuances consisted of pausing his routines, and giving attitude as he soaked up the screaming fans to his delight. If you were moved by this, I cannot argue. It just isn't mine.

 

[let`s talk]

All these talks about mysicality are talks about nothing. ISU has their own concept of "interpretation."

 

[Olympia]

They're not about nothing, Let's Talk. They're about what makes skating special to us. Admittedly, talking about musicality and interpretation is like trying to safety-pin a cloud to the sky, but it gives us a chance to contemplate what we love about this gorgeous and frustrating sport. We have no say in what the ISU decides. But as long as the actual skating is not done behind closed doors, we get to take what we like from it. If it ever gets to the point where skating is done as a completely mechanical sport, with no music, and the judges are able to replay and measure every move on a holographic player, I will still be watching grainy 2-dimensional videos the old-fashioned way, on YouTube. I bet there will be a forum for us dinosaurs, just the way there is now.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

All these talks about musicality are talks about nothing. ISU has their own concept of "interpretation."

What are skaters interpreting? A 4 minute story with an intro and ending and nothing inbetween? or is it what the music is doing to them?
I haven't seen much of the latter.

 

[let`s talk]

If it ever gets to the point where skating is done as a completely mechanical sport, with no music, and the judges are able to replay and measure every move on a holographic player, I will still be watching grainy 2-dimensional videos the old-fashioned way, on YouTube.

What are skaters interpreting? A 4 minute story with an intro and ending and nothing inbetween? or is it what the music is doing to them?
I haven't seen much of the latter.

Agreed. What I ment is if ISU gives 10 for interpretation to Chan for the Phantom that is not even there, all fans' desperate desires to see the fair evaluation of musicality are pointless. It's not a pure mechanical sport yet, but now you can switch the music and some a la Patrick skaters will skate the same stuff with no single change in the program. Yeah, I'll be watching YouTube too, which is quite sad considering that I am not that old yet to be a dinosaur. :think:

 

[Olympia]

Ah, I get you, Let's Talk. I can't argue with that. Thank goodness we still have Daisuke, for a while at least.

 

[janetfan]

Ah, I get you, Let's Talk. I can't argue with that. Thank goodness we still have Daisuke, for a while at least.

I think Patrick has been improving his presentation as well as his jumps the past few seaons.

I expect Patrick will soon be commanding the ice with the best of them and having Lori in his camp is just another plus for him.

Interesting how Patrick is being compared with Yags, Lambiel, Buttle and Dai. He might not be there yet.....but he is moving in that direction and his artistry will only improve as he matures.

The scary thing for the others is that Patrick does not appear to be close to peaking yet.

His future appears to have few limitations and I look forward to seeing his new programs this season.

 

[seniorita]

I hope this fits here, Lambiel is already in Pinzolo and helps with choreography Tuktamisheva and Arthur so far.