Should skaters receive "clean program" bonuses? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Should skaters receive "clean program" bonuses?

PCS evaluates the program regardless of technical mistakes; i.e., a program with falls may have high PCS.
There is a cap on PCS when they fall, and a cap gets lower when they fall more times, just like there is a GOE deduction for a fall.
I remember cases when it did not work properly, but it is just one of many ways for judges not to follow the rules, or break the rules, and actually I think less common than the others.
 
But technical mistakes affect PCS. You're looking for gaps where there are none.
There is a cap on PCS when they fall, and a cap gets lower when they fall more times, just like there is a GOE deduction for a fall.
I remember cases when it did not work properly, but it is just one of many ways for judges not to follow the rules, or break the rules, and actually I think less common than the others.
Just checked the components chart in the ISU Handbook: technical mistakes only affect PCS of 8.75 or above.
So, the PCS of skaters who receive less than that is not affected by their technical mistakes anyhow.

To me, this rule (the cap on PCS) doesn't look like an attempt to reward perfect programs. Rather, it looks like an attempt to prevent shameless PCS overscoring in cases when skating stars make mistakes. Which, of course, doesn't necessarily work each and every time... Well, like you mentioned, this is one of those cases when judges need some 'splaining' to do :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
Perhaps a clean program could be based on what the skater has submitted as their program content. It would reward them for doing what they said they intended to do with no negative GOE.

I know there would still be kinks to work out, but it seems a pretty fair way to do it (at least off the top of my head)
 
What would be the point? The judges will just fiddle it as they do so much at the minute.
 
Well... Where's your "everybody's rotten, let's cancel this sport" thread 🔍:scratch2:🔎?
I just enjoy my little group of skaters, and ignore what I am told by TPTB :)
 
I just enjoy my little group of skaters, and ignore what I am told by TPTB :)
What can I say?... Keep enjoying yourself!

It's sad that this discussion doesn't fall into you enjoyment zone but I can understand. Alas, this topic wasn't suggested by Yuzuru Hanyu!
 
You'd also have to define what constitutes "clean" (or what negates it).
The definition of what "a clean problem" is can actually vary depending on the desired effect. The bar can be put very high, so that bonuses are rarely awarded. Or, it can be comparatively low, i.e., just positive GOE for all technical elements and no deductions (minor mistakes don't count).
Also, judges can be involved into the bonus-awarding process or, contrary, not involved at all - calculating bonuses automatically when all conditions are met.
Honestly, I don't think that this is the most interesting part of discussion. The most interesting part is...
It would surely encourage skaters to leave out their most risky elements, to intentionally double jumps later in the freeskate when they're tired, etc.

Especially if the clean program bonus is worth more than the second-half bonus.
...this. Could it influence the program-building strategy?
Currently, the only way how to scoop the most points is to put in the program all "pointiest" elements up to the degree that it becomes physically impossible to perform everything at the right quality.
This is because we have scoring tools that promote difficulty/quality of separately-taken elements and components. So, the question: are there any tools, already existing or to be invented, that could promote a qualitatively delivered whole program?
And, of course - do we need any? ;)
 
The definition of what "a clean problem" is can actually vary depending on the desired effect. The bar can be put very high, so that bonuses are rarely awarded. Or, it can be comparatively low, i.e., just positive GOE for all technical elements and no deductions (minor mistakes don't count).
Just more reward for selective calls for URs and other imperfect elements keeping down some and pushing up some others.
More of a bad thing, creating a new problem and not a solution..
What might help this sport atm is making the scoring more objective and not even more subjective.
IJS and SoP system is outdated and should be given a major revise at this point to achieve more balance between jumps and everything else but what you propose is not an answer. We would see just more unfair judging aimed at securing this huge extra bonus for whoever the current fave is - or taking it away from some to help some others. That's all.
 
Last edited:
Just more reward for selective calls for URs and other imperfect elements keeping down some and pushing up some others.
More of a bad thing, creating a new problem and not a solution..
What might help this sport atm is making the scoring more objective and not even more subjective.
IJS and SoP system is outdated and should be given a major revise at this point to achieve more balance between jumps and everything else but what you propose is not an answer. We would see just more unfair judging aimed at securing this huge extra bonus for whoever the current fave is - or taking it away from some to help some others. That's all.
I'm sorry to hear that figure skating is all doom and gloom in your eyes. But,of course, if that's your opinion, I respect it just like every other persons opinion.
 
Perhaps a clean program could be based on what the skater has submitted as their program content. It would reward them for doing what they said they intended to do with no negative GOE.
I think that this would be a good way to treat jumps, and it would provide a way to acknowledge clean jump technique at every level. If a beginner presented a jump card featuring a single toe-loop and a single Salchow and then did them both with commendable technique and quality -- Yay! But this is already rewarded twice, once in GOE and again is PCS.

To me, the drawback would be that it promotes the idea that figure skating as nothing but jumping. What if you (schefule" (i.e., hope for) a level 4 step sequence, but only deliver a level 3. What if your program features an Ina Bauer, the src in your back needs worK?
 
Why? Wouldn't it promote quality?
Quality? You mean giving bonuses to weaker skaters? For example someone has 2A+ 3T2T+3L clean would get bonus? When someone would try 3A+3L3T+3F and lets say a little step up and no bonus.
Not even gonna talk about people trying Quads
Make no sense.It would reward weaker skaters most likely.

What we need are educated judges that can score
 
Slept on it, and I'd rather have anyone who has a negative GOE (so including saving jumps, step outs, turnouts, hands down, q, ur, wobbling) in any of their elements be slapped with deductions:

- minus one for each negative element; and

- additional automatic minus five if it happens in their SP / RD (including invalid element)
 
Quality? You mean giving bonuses to weaker skaters? For example someone has 2A+ 3T2T+3L clean would get bonus? When someone would try 3A+3L3T+3F and lets say a little step up and no bonus.
Not even gonna talk about people trying Quads
Make no sense.It would reward weaker skaters most likely.

What we need are educated judges that can score
Apparently, we have a very different idea about what quality is. Never mind.

Slept on it, and I'd rather have anyone who has a negative GOE (so including saving jumps, step outs, turnouts, hands down, q, ur, wobbling) in any of their elements be slapped with deductions:

- minus one for each negative element; and

- additional automatic minus five if it happens in their SP / RD (including invalid element)
Basically the same thing, just in reverse? Interesting!
I guess I need sleeping on it though.
 
Basically the same thing, just in reverse? Interesting!
I guess I need sleeping on it though.
Yeah, I woke up feeling like I want a fall or visible errors punished in a way that even skating muggles can understand, lol. But I also want the high-BV jump attempts to be rewarded as they should be, and for those who does easier content to also be punished when they can't deliver that, so.... minus points it is, and not just at jumps but also at everything, including when skaters make those dumbass difficult spin entry and f**k it up.
 
Yeah, I woke up feeling like I want a fall or visible errors punished in a way that even skating muggles can understand, lol. But I also want the high-BV jump attempts to be rewarded as they should be, and for those who does easier content to also be punished when they can't deliver that, so.... minus points it is, and not just at jumps but also at everything, including when skaters make those dumbass difficult spin entry and f**k it up.
Please, promise that you will newer become the president of the International Skating Union!

I just want figure skaters to have a good night sleep after reading your post.
 
Back
Top