South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

[jenm]

Who cares who jumped higher. They really don't award GOE based on who jumped higher do they. This isn't high jump or pole vaulting. You can jump lower and still grab the same GOE or even higher GOE based on other bullets too. It's not the only bullet and it isn't awarded to the highest jumper in the field alone.

The point of what I said is not who jumped higher. My point is that the images ARE MANIPULATED. And therefore should not be a reference if someone wants to justify Adelina's win.

 

[neraiselle]

http://cmsimg.freep.com/apps/pbcsi....e-white-tessa-virtue-scott-moir-russia-canada

 

[Mathman]

Who cares who jumped higher. They really don't award GOE based on who jumped higher do they.

You know, that actually raises a serious question about how the judges award GOEs in real life. If I were a judge, and I just gave someone +2 for a jump based in part on satisfying the bullet about "good height," and the the next guy came along with even better height and all other factors equal -- what should I do?

I think I would be very tempted to throw the rule book out the window and say, the second skater was better, he deserves to win, and it is my primary responsibility to make sure that the best performance wins -- +3.

(Reason number 3745 why I am not a figure skating judge. )

 

[Mathman]

Most significant is Jason Brown waiting patiently for his congratulatory hug.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The point of what I said is not who jumped higher. My point is that the images ARE MANIPULATED. And therefore should not be a reference if someone wants to justify Adelina's win.

I've seen some ridiculous GIF's posted here too that were clearly doctored. It's frustrating!!

 

[jenm]

Haha...you win. Pssssttt...the truth is, and I'm privy to it because I agreed with Sochi, there really is a Vast Global Conspiracy, inlcuidng the NYT, CSM, NBC, etc., to deprive Korea and Yuna of their OGM! Now please quote me on The Wire, Jesse Helms, etc.

If it isn't so tragic it'll actually be funny. Enjoy your angst.

Edit: oh wait...



This explains it then!

Really? Someone tries to objectively point out NYT's article's mistakes and this is your answer? I only said something about that NYT article and won't say anything about these things you listed. I'm not a crazed fan of Yuna but I'm also not blind and I don't attack posters here and make snide comments to them like you do. It seems you have more angst than I do so if I may quote you, "Enjoy your angst."

 

[jenm]

I've seen some ridiculous GIF's posted here too that were clearly doctored. It's frustrating!!

The thing is NYT is a known publisher/news company. They should be more credible or at least not too obvious when they do something like this. They have viewers all over the world so they should have been more careful, that's if they did not do it on purpose (which I highly doubt). The sad thing is that a lot of people actually believed in that article.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

The thing is NYT is a known publisher/news company. They should be more credible or at least not too obvious when they do something like this. They have viewers all over the world so they should have been more careful, that's if they did not do it on purpose (which I highly doubt). The sad thing is that a lot of people actually believed in that article.

Same with the GIFS too. I'm sorry if you are just finding out about American news media but the truth is journalist are only occasionally fair and balanced here. Ive lost almost all hope! There are quite a few who seem to attempt to prove their personal views when presenting stories. On a positive note I did read a NYT article about figure skateing booming in Russia. It really was surprisingly good and shed light at the time for me. I'm so used to the US media attacking Russia like it were 1984 I found this quite refreshing!

http://nytimes.com/2014/02/05/sports/olympics/in-russia-skating-booms-again.html?referrer=

 

[ahy]

When i look at the photos, what i thought is the arrow of Adelina's 2A started too early, to make her 2A look higher while actually ...the arrows are trying to make non skating fans believe that Adelina should've won... the photos are manipulated obviously...also look at the photos of the spins @@

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

When i look at the photos, what i thought is the arrow of Adelina's 2A started too early, to make her 2A look higher while actually ...the arrows are trying to make non skating fans believe that Adelina should've won... the photos are manipulated obviously...also look at the photos of the spins @@

The funny part is you don't need a doctored photo to know that Adelina's second jump is higher than Yuna's.

 

[jkun]

Wow....incredible....you are now making allegations against the NYT??? That the NYT cared so much for Russia and Adelina's gold they would stoop to fraud? My....like I said, creepy.

Look, I didn't come to my conclusion because of the NYT photos, I came to my conclusion based on what I saw, and to allege that the general press and experts are resorting to fraud, as if there is a Global Conspiracy to deprive Yuna of gold, this is getting really absurd, and too paranoid.

It has been proven that the NYT's pictures are altered to make adelina's jumps look better. Not sure why it was edited that way, but you could make the connection.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

You know, that actually raises a serious question about how the judges award GOEs in real life. If I were a judge, and I just gave someone +2 for a jump based in part on satisfying the bullet about "good height," and the the next guy came along with even better height and all other factors equal -- what should I do?

I think I would be very tempted to throw the rule book out the window and say, the second skater was better, he deserves to win, and it is my primary responsibility to make sure that the best performance wins -- +3.

(Reason number 3745 why I am not a figure skating judge. )

And according to ISU guidelines you could do just that. In fact as we have discussed before you can sight only one bullet point and still award +3 GOE and be well within the rulebook being that the amount of bullets needed to satisfy positive GOE is only a suggestion. I've been complaining about that pre Sochi! That is why I want a notes column and the specific bullets satisfied in the protocols. I keep posting this example but Ill go ahead and do it again.

2a-3t-2t +2 GOE bullets satisfied(1,4,6,8) notes: I was surprised by the fearless entrance, the height was considerable on the 3t, the sequence flowed nice and speed and exit seemed to match the program)

The only thing added would be that the judges need to announce the bullets they used in awarding GOE. I wouldn't expect the notes to be filled out for a few hours after the event so the protocols would have to be released prior. Wouldn't the judge be less likely to inflate a GOE if he has to explain it?

I'm going off topic so Ill stop here. Sorry!

 

[Anna K.]

It has been proven that the NYT's pictures are altered to make adelina's jumps look better. Not sure why it was edited that way, but you could make the connection.

All right, if you want a non-conspiracy explanation then I have one too. I think NYT simply called the office of ISU or US federation and asked them to explain results. Well, maybe they didn’t want to spoil the good vibe created by the most appreciated gold medal of D/W so they gave a hint that they want an article that justifies results. After that, they simply trusted professionals – and professionals overacted. The story is one-sided, it doesn’t even mention PCS controversy, and the pictures… here you are!

 

[Nadya]

The point of what I said is not who jumped higher. My point is that the images ARE MANIPULATED. And therefore should not be a reference if someone wants to justify Adelina's win.

Er..what makes you think her images are the only ones that got manipulated?

 

[Anna K.]

Er..what makes you think her images are the only ones that got manipulated?

Photoshoped pictures are the reality of today, which is always manipulation in one or another way.
Mostly, these visual effects are harmless from journalistic point of view but sometimes people get more sensitive about it than they usually are. Here, we have one of those occasions.

 

[cuon_alpinus]

Wow....incredible....you are now making allegations against the NYT??? That the NYT cared so much for Russia and Adelina's gold they would stoop to fraud? My....like I said, creepy.

Look, I didn't come to my conclusion because of the NYT photos, I came to my conclusion based on what I saw, and to allege that the general press and experts are resorting to fraud, as if there is a Global Conspiracy to deprive Yuna of gold, this is getting really absurd, and too paranoid.

Please check these videos my friend. It clearly tells you that those NYT images are fabricated to falsify the readers.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEO2aOnD9KHSt59Cs9lhRQ/videos

I know images used in media are processed because I work as a graphic designer.
But these photos are highly manipulated to work for someone's advantage (Adelina's) and given that this was a sensitive issue during the Olympics, then this pretty much suggests something's up.
Sot's 2A-3T from NYT: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgr...3d8/1050/adelina-2A-3T-labels-ai2html_300.jpg
Yuna's 3S-2T: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgr...b8d3d8/1050/yuna-3S-2T-labels-ai2html_300.jpg

My observation is that the arrow on Sot's jump combination started on the wrong point (end of free leg rather than the actual take-off) which was done to make her jump look higher. As compared to Yuna's image, you can see she is smaller in comparison to Adelina which is not true because Yuna is taller/bigger than Adelina (not that Yuna's fat but you get my point). As a graphic designer, I would have used the proper ratio. I would have extended the ice in Adelina's photo so that with her correct size, the width of her image is the same a Yuna's. That's not very difficult.

Your right. Please check the url above which clearly in depth analyzes the manipulated NYT articles and pictures.

When i look at the photos, what i thought is the arrow of Adelina's 2A started too early, to make her 2A look higher while actually ...the arrows are trying to make non skating fans believe that Adelina should've won... the photos are manipulated obviously...also look at the photos of the spins @@

Don't worry. Someone has already done the work for you.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Watched the Sochi performances several times, it's not hard to see and Yuna's stsq didn't have all the balance-affecting upper body movements for 1/3 of the sequence compared to Adelina's and Caro's, she was mostly upright, with arm movements

The arm movements ARE balance-affecting. This is of course a slightly grey area in the rules, but if you ask most any skater to perform Yu-Na's footwork sequence with those arm movements, they would be all over the place.

 

[qwertyskates]

The arm movements ARE balance-affecting. This is of course a slightly grey area in the rules, but if you ask most any skater to perform Yu-Na's footwork sequence with those arm movements, they would be all over the place.

The criteria #2 did say arms, but also head and torso, for 1/3 of stsq, and that is where I find Yuna lacking. In general, with the waving of the arms, you can stand still and maintain your balance,especially at the level of elite skaters. Arm movements do not significantly affect the balance of the main body core, unlike off-center torso and head displacement.

Stsq is also more difficult when performed at a greater speed to a faster rhythm.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/First Aid Singles.pdf

Use of upper body movements
means the visible use for a combined total of at
least 1/3
of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, and/or
head and/or torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.
Having an effect on the balance of main body core can also be understood as having
an effect on the balance of the body as a whole and influencing the balance on the
blade.

 

[cuon_alpinus]

The criteria #2 did say arms, but also head and torso, for 1/3 of stsq, and that is where I find Yuna lacking. In general, with the waving of the arms, you can stand still and maintain your balance,especially at the level of elite skaters. Arm movements do not significantly affect the balance of the main body core, unlike off-center torso and head displacement.

Stsq is also more difficult when performed at a greater speed to a faster rhythm.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/First Aid Singles.pdf

Use of upper body movements
means the visible use for a combined total of at
least 1/3
of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, and/or
head and/or torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.
Having an effect on the balance of main body core can also be understood as having
an effect on the balance of the body as a whole and influencing the balance on the
blade.

http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/index.php?mid=sochi2014&category=64985537&document_srl=65097603

I think Yuna should have received level 4 step sequence.

 

[jenm]

Er..what makes you think her images are the only ones that got manipulated?

Have you seen the article and the images? Both of the skater's images were manipulated. Manipulated in a sense that makes Adelina look like "the better skater" than Yuna, while making Yuna seem inferior. There are valid ways to defend Adelina's win which includes using facts and objective reasoning so why use misleading and faulty images?