South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging

[cooper]

It's because most fans know there was no controversy. Only a select few who ignore that Yuna had a < in the SP that wasn't called, another uncalled < and a shaky landing in the LP that inexplicably got +3 from a judge, are mad.

wait.. what??

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

wait.. what??

You can go back and look at the 3T, although it doesn't really matter since the right skater won in the end

 

[cooper]

You can go back and look at the 3T, although it doesn't really matter since the right skater won in the end

i think the more you post on this thread the i will get.. you're trying too hard to convince any doubters that sochi was clean.. so keep it up..

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

i think the more you post on this thread the i will get.. you're trying too hard to convince any doubters that sochi was clean.. so keep it up..

I don't have to do much to convince anyone reasonable. Your best evidence of cheating is based on a hug. One hug apparently means that 9 judges cheated, right? It couldn't be because someone was more athletic in an athletic competition, because anyone who skates around and wipes her chin for four minutes deserves to win.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You can go back and look at the 3T, although it doesn't really matter since the right skater won in the end

Good lord... I'm a staunch Sotnikova defender, but she did NOT deserve to win. At the very least, she did not deserve the PCS of Yu Na, and higher than Kostner. As far as your belief that Kim had a UR 3T... what would you say about Sotnikova's UR 3Z+3T< and not being called for her flutz or being give level 4 step sequence?

Sotnikova didn't deserve to win, but the fact is she did skate well, and it was the judging that was errant. And the other fact is: it's over. People need to move on, whether they admit it was a farce of judging or not.

Mourning over a lack of a 2nd gold medal. Good grief... I know it's a cultural thing, but those same Koreans who are mourning Kim's silver instead of a second gold probably don't even show 100th that anguish and outrage towards things like poverty in their country. They will still be whining about it during the figure skating competition in 2018 every time a Russian takes to the ice.

 

[cooper]

I don't have to do much to convince anyone reasonable. Your best evidence of cheating is based on a hug. One hug apparently means that 9 judges cheated, right? It couldn't be because someone was more athletic in an athletic competition, because anyone who skates around and wipes her chin for four minutes deserves to win.

it's not only the hug.. the fact that the known cheater was at the judging panel in the most important event will always create "doubt".. no matter what.. whether you shrug it off..

 

[rolandgarros]

Kim is an overrated has been who is not in Sotnikova's league. When Sotnikova's career is over she will have 2 Olympic golds and 4 world titles and her career will dump all over overrated Kim.

 

[sk8in]

There's nothing to investigate. If any of the 9 federations felt pressured to inflate Russian skaters' scores, that would have leaked by now. Someone among those federations would have been unhappy with the cheating and leaked that to the media. It hasn't happened. You can continue whining but if you think think "attributing made-up statements to a certain skater" is bona fide evidence of a cover up, rather than a dumb mistake, then that's not very convincing. Nor is hugging a judge, a president sitting next to the head of the ISU, or allegations that a female judge is physically threatening.

When the NBC commentators literally said Adelina won on "home ice" how are you inferring that something would have to leak? It seems to me that even Adelina's most ardent defenders have conceded that the score spread was suspect. Also I believe a major crux of the controversy is indeed the fact that the system protects the judges in their commiserations. You don't have to "leak" anything because it is all out in the open for anyone to see. Under the current system judges have the discretion to inflate certain skaters scores based on whatever criteria they choose.

 

[sk8in]

I don't have to do much to convince anyone reasonable. Your best evidence of cheating is based on a hug. One hug apparently means that 9 judges cheated, right? It couldn't be because someone was more athletic in an athletic competition, because anyone who skates around and wipes her chin for four minutes deserves to win.

Actually I would say most of your argument comes down to deference towards authority, and eschews ethical considerations altogether. Basically your position is that Mother Russia is the center of figure skating, and because they can control the outcome their say in the matter is more valid. Dually, you say South Koreans are cry babies (and to a larger extent don't even count as being part of the skating world) because they have less influence. You don't actually consider the imbalance of power in the skating world as a valid issue, and all your analysis of the skating has been awful. You basically tried to claim Yuna's 3Lz was UR by more than half a rotation, and randomly throw out accusations like this---not based on evidence, but in a transparent attempt to muddy the water and make Adelina's scoring seem more valid.

 

[cooper]

Kim is an overrated has been who is not in Sotnikova's league. When Sotnikova's career is over she will have 2 Olympic golds and 4 world titles and her career will dump all over overrated Kim.

i also predict that sotnikova will also land 2 3axels in every world title she has and a quad.. every tournament she competes she will win first place with world record score... why not stop?? you can do better..

 

[sk8in]

The thing is, if Sotnikova did that, I don't think there's a single person who wouldn't love it and give her props lol.

 

[CarneAsada]

i also predict that sotnikova will also land 2 3axels in every world title she has and a quad.. every tournament she competes she will win first place with world record score... why not stop?? you can do better..

Watch yourself cooper, it might just come true. Sotnikova is like Midori Ito except with artistry, remember?

 

[kwanatic]

Fans will continue to debate/whine/defend/cry foul/etc. for years and years to come. It's been 16 years since Nagano and you can still get a 5+ page thread about why Michelle should have won/why Tara deserved to win. It's the nature of figure skating fans.

What's important for me is that both Yu-Na and Adelina have moved on and are looking forward. No, I don't think Adelina deserved the scores she got but, yes, I do think she made a very strong case for gold. To me, she skated like she wanted it more than anyone else that night and for that reason, I was fine with her winning even though I thought her scores were too high. The downside for Adelina is that win has complicated her career b/c now she's in a position of needing to live up to what she did in Sochi to validate her win there. She'll be under a lot of pressure going forward. I think she's immensely talented and I'd love to see her succeed but the point is she has her work cut out for her in the coming years...

Yu-Na was able to exit the sport with her head held high though I'm sure most of her overzealous fans are convinced she sits at home crying about not winning in Sochi and throwing darts at a picture of Adelina's face. She's moved on, she's happy, she's starting the next chapter of her life away from figure skating and I'm thrilled for her.

 

[Meoima]

Fans will continue to debate/whine/defend/cry foul/etc. for years and years to come. It's been 16 years since Nagano and you can still get a 5+ page thread about why Michelle should have won/why Tara deserved to win. It's the nature of figure skating fans.

What's important for me is that both Yu-Na and Adelina have moved on and are looking forward. No, I don't think Adelina deserved the scores she got but, yes, I do think she made a very strong case for gold. To me, she skated like she wanted it more than anyone else that night and for that reason, I was fine with her winning even though I thought her scores were too high. The downside for Adelina is that win has complicated her career b/c now she's in a position of needing to live up to what she did in Sochi to validate her win there. She'll be under a lot of pressure going forward. I think she's immensely talented and I'd love to see her succeed but the point is she has her work cut out for her in the coming years...

Yu-Na was able to exit the sport with her head held high though I'm sure most of her overzealous fans are convinced she sits at home crying about not winning in Sochi and throwing darts at a picture of Adelina's face. She's moved on, she's happy, she's starting the next chapter of her life away from figure skating and I'm thrilled for her.

:thumbsup: agree with everything you said even though I am not so fond of Adelina' style I have to say she did skate very well that night.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Actually I would say most of your argument comes down to deference towards authority, and eschews ethical considerations altogether. Basically your position is that Mother Russia is the center of figure skating, and because they can control the outcome their say in the matter is more valid. Dually, you say South Koreans are cry babies (and to a larger extent don't even count as being part of the skating world) because they have less influence. You don't actually consider the imbalance of power in the skating world as a valid issue, and all your analysis of the skating has been awful. You basically tried to claim Yuna's 3Lz was UR by more than half a rotation, and randomly throw out accusations like this---not based on evidence, but in a transparent attempt to muddy the water and make Adelina's scoring seem more valid.

Yuna's 3Lz was more than 1/4 but less than 1/2 short, like her 3T in the SP. It's not an "accusation" it's based on slow motion video which I posted earlier in the thread. Adelina's 3T in her combo was also short. However, there have been credited 3T that were even less rotated than Yuna's and Adelina's, such as Ashley Wagner's early season 3-3 attempts.

 

[cooper]

Yuna's 3Lz was more than 1/4 but less than 1/2 short, like her 3T in the SP. It's not an "accusation" it's based on slow motion video which I posted earlier in the thread. Adelina's 3T in her combo was also short. However, there have been credited 3T that were even less rotated than Yuna's and Adelina's, such as Ashley Wagner's early season 3-3 attempts.

you're really trying too hard...

we're in page 95 and yet you never mentioned adelina's flutz.. there's always an excuse..

 

[kwanatic]

Yuna's 3Lz was more than 1/4 but less than 1/2 short, like her 3T in the SP. It's not an "accusation" it's based on slow motion video which I posted earlier in the thread. Adelina's 3T in her combo was also short. However, there have been credited 3T that were even less rotated than Yuna's and Adelina's, such as Ashley Wagner's early season 3-3 attempts.

I thought Yu-Na's 3-3 was fine. To be honest, I thought Adelina's 3-3 was close enough to receive the benefit of the doubt too...but yeah, they let her slide with that flutz call. Given the combination as a whole I don't think it deserved more than a -1 if not just a 0 in GOE. If you're flutzer or lipper, be a flutzer or lipper. There should be a standard deduction for both rather than leaving it up to the judges to make calls w/ GOE. If the tech caller gives it an "e" there should be a slight deduction and that should be it. Most of the time the judges can't see the edge anyway...

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

you're really trying too hard...

we're in page 95 and yet you never mentioned adelina's flutz.. there's always an excuse..

The point is that you act like Adelina benefitted from all these close calls and Yuna didn't at all. Yuna had calls in her favor too, including that second 3Lz that did not deserve the +GOE it got.

 

[cooper]

I thought Yu-Na's 3-3 was fine. To be honest, I thought Adelina's 3-3 was close enough to receive the benefit of the doubt too...but yeah, they let her slide with that flutz call. Given the combination as a whole I don't think it deserved more than a -1 if not just a 0 in GOE. If you're flutzer or lipper, be a flutzer or lipper. There should be a standard deduction for both rather than leaving it up to the judges to make calls w/ GOE. If the tech caller gives it an "e" there should be a slight deduction and that should be it. Most of the time the judges can't see the edge anyway...

my problem w/ the tech panel (1 russian and baranova who was eager to hug adelina backstage) for not calling adelina's flutz it wasn't consistent with other skaters.. if you're non russian you get called... it was toooo obvious..

 

[flyushka]

^Except for the part where Lipnitskaya got an edge call...