WADA rejects appeals from Russia

[Bcash]

No, it's not fair if figure skaters are banned who had nothing to do with the doping program. Fair to whom?

To athletes who have not doped.
Of course those who had nothing to do with doping program shouldn't be banned.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

And before someone flags me for heresay, the head of the anti-doping lab admitted to switching urine samples and provided detailed lists of the names of the Russian athletes on the doping program, going back like 12 years.

How about we start with that list first

How many names are on it by the way?

 

[Eclair]

I'm still undecided whether banning a whole country would be a fair decision, even if it is proven that a fed.supported doping system happened.

I mean, I see that it would be unfair for newer, clean athletes, if they are banned for what their fed and other athletes did 4 years ago. But at the same time, how do you even punish a fed/state?

If an athlete dopes himself (without feds support) and he gets caught, he gets all his medals and titles stripped. Now, if an athletes dopes with the feds/states support, of course he should get all his medals and titles stripped, too, but there has to be some 'additional' punishment, too or else there is no incentive for feds/states to stay out of systematic doping (except for morals).

What should this additional punishment consist of? I have no idea how to really punish a fed or a state for systematic fed or state organized doping, except for banning the whole fed/country ... Anyone have any other suggestions?

One idea would be to test the new athletes A LOT to make sure that there is absolutely no doubt they have nothing to do with what other athletes or the fed did in the past. But as someone posted in this thread earlier, it seems this was not done (apparently most athletes were only tested once ). So there's a lost chance.

About people thinking that medically indicated medication that was previously told to WADA is the same as secretive-taken, medically non-indicated medication that the WADA was not informed of - well, I guess if you judge those who take medicine based on medical indication so harshly, then I really don't understand how you can be so lenient to athletes who took medication secretly.

 

[Purv]

I'm still undecided whether banning a whole country would be a fair decision, even if it is proven that a fed.supported doping system happened.

I mean, I see that it would be unfair for newer, clean athletes, if they are banned for what their fed and other athletes did 4 years ago. But at the same time, how do you even punish a fed/state?

If an athlete dopes himself (without feds support) and he gets caught, he gets all his medals and titles stripped. Now, if an athletes dopes with the feds/states support, of course he should get all his medals and titles stripped, too, but there has to be some 'additional' punishment, too or else there is no incentive for feds/states to stay out of systematic doping (except for morals).

What should this additional punishment consist of? I have no idea how to really punish a fed or a state for systematic fed or state organized doping, except for banning the whole fed/country ... Anyone have any other suggestions?

One idea would be to test the new athletes A LOT to make sure that there is absolutely no doubt they have nothing to do with what other athletes or the fed did in the past. But as someone posted in this thread earlier, it seems this was not done (apparently most athletes were only tested once ). So there's a lost chance.

About people thinking that medically indicated medication that was previously told to WADA is the same as secretive-taken, medically non-indicated medication that the WADA was not informed of - well, I guess if you judge those who take medicine based on medical indication so harshly, then I really don't understand how you can be so lenient to athletes who took medication secretly.

Yes ,russian federation wants to compete with their athletes on Olympic but they dont do nothng to help or to show themselves in good light. Their athletes are not tested actually at all. While American athletes are tested 20 times a year!

 

[kenboy123]

I doubt the ENTIRE TEAM will be banned...didn't something similar happen the last olympics (Rio de Janeiro) where Russia weren't cooperating with WADA (or some other sport organization, i really don't know any of these organizations) and they were going to ban the whole Russian team, but instead the ones that were able to prove they were clean ended up going (about 200 of them or however many)...this seems like the same story that will end up with the same conclusion...i highly doubt they will ban the whole of Russia...

 

[mrrice]

Yes ,russian federation wants to compete with their athletes on Olympic but they dont do nothng to help or to show themselves in good light. Their athletes are not tested actually at all. While American athletes are tested 20 times a year!

Do you know this for a fact?? Have the rules for testing Medalists at Nationals and Worlds changed? I remember seeing an interview with Rudy Galindo on our local news and he was asked what he did after he won his championship. I think he said something like "Well, first I had to go pee in a cup" Have they stopped testing skaters. Maria Sharapova who plays for Russia but, for all intents and purposes, she's currently from the US. She has her businesses here and now that her Father is off the tour, her coaches are all from the US. She was tested and banned for 15 months after testing positive for PED's. I don't understand why they don't test the athlete's before the event. Maria made it to the final and beat 6 players before losing the championship to Serena Williams.

I wonder how long it takes for the results to show up. Can't they test the athletes during the check in process once they get to the site? I just don't like seeing an entire country of athletes being painted with the same brush.

 

[daphenaxa]

they should get banned but they won't be. IOC clearly doesn't wanna ban them and Thomas Bach has already pretty much said that RUSADA not being compliant with WADA is no basis to ban them. Pretty sure IOC will do like in Rio and let the sports feds of each sport decide and in that case skaters have nothing to worry about since ISU would never ban the Russians. Skiing fed will probably ban them from biathlon/cross-country skiing tho

 

[lappo]

Do you know this for a fact?? Have the rules for testing Medalists at Nationals and Worlds changed? I remember seeing an interview with Rudy Galindo on our local news and was asked what he did after he won his championship. I think he said something like "Well, first I had to go pee in a cup" Have they stopped testing skaters. Maria Sharapova who plays for Russia but, for all intents and purposes, she's from the US. She has her businesses here and now that her Father is off the tour, her coaches are all from the US. She was tested and banned for 15 months after testing positive for PED's. I don't understand why they don't test the athlete's before the event.

I wonder how long it takes for results to show up. Can't they test the athletes during the check in process once they get to the site? I just don't like seeing an entire country of athletes being painted with the same brush.

AFAIK, all medalist at big events (GP series, GPF, Worlds, 4CC) get automatically tested; plus, there are some sample test on other skaters placed under top 3.

 

[mrrice]

AFAIK, all medalist at big events (GP series, GPF, Worlds, 4CC) get automatically tested; plus, there are some sample test on other skaters placed under top 3.

That's what I thought. How were these athletes not caught before they won these huge events.

 

[4everchan]

But you said that the evidence would be collected in the next 10 years, you are implying that there is not enough evidence yet. If there is the evidence now, why wait?

you need to get more information here... there is evidence. Some of it is NOT made available to WADA because the Russian federation "needs it for their own investigation"... let's hope that this evidence suddenly doesnt disappear...

there are also whistle blowers and testimonies available... what I said is that to have a very strong case it may take years. Right now, it wouldn't be optimal to act on what is available..
the issue with this is that who will be punished IF/WHEN the data is available???? Athletes who have nothing to do with what has been happening for 5-10 years...

that's why if it were up to me, I'd propose a ban : one summer and one winter (I would have done it in RIO) no Russia... too bad. then you have 4 years to reinstate RUSADA and start acting up cleanly.

It's harsh but it would punish some of the cheaters and protect some of the clean athletes. Would it be unfair for Russian skater B or Russian diver X who have never taken a thing... Yes... but right now, it's unfair to everyone else....

I am mesmerized when I read this thread about how many people are so eager to throw WADA under the bus, forget and forgive systemic doping, just so that their faves are able to compete.... really? Is that how people think of sport : all good as long as my team wins?

Funny also how some people are calling out "cheated jumps", tanos, backloading, judges... which are all "in the rules" or at least "subjective" elements.... but then "doping" gets a pass??? Because some studies were rushed??? Because we don't have a final proof?

Seriously, i find it sad to read a thread where there is very little support to cleaner sport. Cheaters in sport will always be ahead of the system. It's important to get reminded of that when looking for proofs. I don't need to get a confirmation in 30 years of what we already know.

 

[jersey1302]

I think they are just going to end up banning the athletes that have been proven to have been associated with the doping scandal. I can't see them banning an entire nation and making the innocent athletes that have been good suffer.

 

[mrrice]

I think they are just going to end up banning the athletes that have been proven to have been associated with the doping scandal. I can't see them banning an entire nation and making the innocent athletes that have been good suffer.

I hope so. Especially for individual events.

 

[mrrice]

If Russia doesn't compete, I won't be watching. Would be the same if any country likely to medal would be banned to compete without proof that the skaters themselves doped.

It would be a different thing if a small country like my own would be banned (if they had anyone competing), but taking out one of the biggest ones like Russia, Japan, US, Canada or even Kazakhstan or Spain with some chance of medaling would make the competition worthless to me.

Win fair and square against all possible competitors please.

I agree. It would be like the year the US Boycotted the Olympics. The medalist will all have an asterisk next to their medal.

 

[4everchan]

I agree. It would be like the year the US Boycotted the Olympics. The medalist will all have an asterisk next to their medal.

not really... 1984.... boycotted by the Soviet block... nobody cares now... the champions from these games are champions... no asterisk

 

[kresslia]

I am mesmerized when I read this thread about how many people are so eager to throw WADA under the bus, forget and forgive systemic doping, just so that their faves are able to compete.... really? Is that how people think of sport : all good as long as my team wins?

Great post.

 

[mrrice]

not really... 1984.... boycotted by the Soviet block... nobody cares now... the champions from these games are champions... no asterisk

Well, the US boycotted the Olympics in 1980 and some of our athletes are still bitter about it. However, it's a different situation for a country to be banned for a drug scandal, than a political scandal. PED's directly effect an athletes performance and politics are, well, politics. The US athletes were dragged into a situation that had nothing to do with them or their behavior.

 

[Tallorder]

The Olympic 'brand' is so on the verge of being further soiled ...

 

[Tulipstar]

You dont have to blindly follow a flag to not feel sorry and not be regretin that some small federation would be banned, especially if is your own.. People dosnt care about some small countries ? Federations there also have athletes, who work hard. And you dont care about it, only for russia or usa? You wouldn be watching Olympic without japan or Spain?Weid thinking

I talked about how I wouldn't be watching, not about how I wouldn't regret anything or not care about it.

I also didn't talk about people in general not caring about small federations, but about my own opinion, as I made clear. Added to this, I didn't say athletes in small federations don't work hard, as you seem to suggest. A competition where possible medalists are taken away is simply not exciting to me.(Note the 'to me'. I am talking about my personal opinion, not about 'people' in general).

 

[crankyintheAM]

In other news, WADA will stay in Canada after the Canadians offered to pay them more money. They will also grant WADA officials immunity against civil lawsuits.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...ters-of-wada-after-increasing-financial-offer

:disapp:

 

[nimi]

you need to get more information here... there is evidence. Some of it is NOT made available to WADA because the Russian federation "needs it for their own investigation"... let's hope that this evidence suddenly doesnt disappear...

To recap my first post on page 1 of this thread.... It was reported that WADA recently got hold of some new leaked evidence, the kind of which Russian authorities didn't want to make available because they "needed it for their own investigation" or something. The existence of this new data/evidence was publicized shortly after the Russian authorities had completed an internal investigation which -- surprise, surprise! -- blamed the whistleblower for the doping issues... So, there's that.

From Guardian:

The World Anti-Doping Agency says it has obtained a database that confirms in effect that the McLaren report, which concluded that more than 1,000 Russian athletes across over 30 sports benefited from state-sponsored doping between 2012 and 2015, is accurate.

Wada said it was still analysing the database, which contains all the testing data at the Moscow Laboratory between January 2012 and August 2015, but confirmed it would be shared with two International Olympic Committee investigations into Russian doping that are due to report within the next month.

In statement Wada confirmed that by cross-referencing the new intelligence with the McLaren investigation’s findings in June and December 2016, it had “reinforced” its evidence base.

The latest revelation comes only days after an internal Russian investigation blamed Grigory Rodchenkov, the former Moscow Laboratory director who turned whistleblower, for its doping problems. Russia has always denied state-sponsored doping.