Who was better at 13, Naomi Nari Nam or Caroline Zhang?

[slutskayafan21]

Caroline Zhang easily. Naomi Nari Nam never landed a triple lutz that I know of, in fact the attempts I saw from her at U.S Nationals or in junior competitions were downright scary awful. Her 99 U.S Nationals performance was her best ever by a long ways jumps wise, and she still landed only 5 triples, only 3 of them clean. Zhang was in another league as far as jumps whether one finds her jumps ugly or not. A skater who regularly clean 6 triples programs, repeating either the triple lutz or the triple flip, is light years ahead of Naomi Nari Nam jumps wise. As for jump technique Naomi was also not very strong, just like Zhang's, but the difference is Zhang lands all the hard triples over and over, without almost always two footing them like Naomi.

As for the rest of their skating, that is personal preference I guess. I find Zhang's spins just as outstanding, and her artistry much more engaging then Naomi's.

 

[slutskayafan21]

NNN was just a one-time hit.

Bingo!

 

[dancindiva03]

Um, Dancin' Diva - Caroline won, and won, and won, so get over it.

Her winning has nothing to do with the topic. Zhang and NNN never competed against each other, and therefore in regards to this discussion, it doesn't matter what she won. I'm talking about jump technique, and Caroline's is really bad, I still can't figure out how she actually lands anything.

 

[pista04]

Handprint

I think a big thing about this is who will we remember? We still remember Nari Nam, but I have a feeling that if Zhang cant up her game when becoming a senior skater, or puberty is not nice to her (like Phaneuf) we could only remember her as the gIrl with the brightest future but couldn't make it happen.

 

[iloveaxel]

I think a big thing about this is who will we remember? We still remember Nari Nam, but I have a feeling that if Zhang cant up her game when becoming a senior skater, or puberty is not nice to her (like Phaneuf) we could only remember her as the gIrl with the brightest future but couldn't make it happen.

You sound like NNN had some marvelous career vs. Caroline Zhang, which itself was quite ludicrous. NNN was just a one-time wonder. She could not even master 5 triples, and did one clean program in her entire singles career.

 

[iloveaxel]

I think Caroline has THE UGLIEST jump technique EVER. NNN may not have had the best jumps, but they were not as wacky looking as Caroline's. Yes, Caroline is landing the jumps in competition but her technique is dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. And that comes straight from the mouths of a number of coaches at my rink, not just from me.

Please stop watching figure skating as you promised or stop mindless ranting.
Sounds like all of your coaches are little losers who are unable to coach any elite skater. :chorus:

 

[dancindiva03]

Please stop watching figure skating as you promised or stop mindless ranting.
Sounds like all of your coaches are little losers who are unable to coach any elite skater. :chorus:

Mindless ranting would be posting just to say that Caroline sucks, shich I didn't do. I simply explained why, IMHO, NNN was a better technical skater that Miss Zhang.

Obviously you don't know any of the coaches at my rink, or the skaters that they coach. They are all excellent at teaching correct jumping technique, something that either Caroline's coach is unable to do, or Caroline is just unwilling to learn. Maybe if she'd spend more time on technique and less time on developing more of those grossly contortionist moves, then Caroline would have better jumps.

 

[personwhoishere]

They are all excellent at teaching correct jumping technique, something that either Caroline's coach is unable to do, or Caroline is just unwilling to learn. Maybe if she'd spend more time on technique and less time on developing more of those grossly contortionist moves, then Caroline would have better jumps.

She said in her USFS bio (as well as in various interviews) that she really wants to fix/correct/improve her jumping technique.
http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=34948

As for the topic, I think Zhang by far. I didn't get what was so special about NNN, or her performance at 99 Nationals. Love her as a pairs skater though.

 

[chuckm]

Caroline Zhang won 4 gold medals: JGP Mexico, JPP Taipei, the JPG Final and Junior Worlds, all against international competitors, and won a single medal at US Nationals as a Junior. NNN never competed internationally, never won a gold medal as a singles skater, and won pewter at US Nationals as a Junior.

As a Pairs skater, NNN lands her side-by-side jumps but the throw jumps seem to be a huge problem for her.

 

[Sylvia]

NNN never competed internationally, never won a gold medal as a singles skater, and won pewter at US Nationals as a Junior.

Nam was also the 1997 U.S. Novice Ladies champion. I remember being impressed by her charisma and spinning ability in her exhibition in Nashville (my first Nationals in person).

 

[iloveaxel]

As a Pairs skater, NNN lands her side-by-side jumps but the throw jumps seem to be a huge problem for her.

To be fair to NNN, we don't know whether it's her problem or his problem, or both.

 

[attyfan]

... As a Pairs skater, NNN lands her side-by-side jumps but the throw jumps seem to be a huge problem for her.

Is there any difference (such as force of impact, etc.) on the hips in landing a throw jump as opposed to landing a side-by-side jump?

 

[euterpe]

Nam was also the 1997 U.S. Novice Ladies champion. I remember being impressed by her charisma and spinning ability in her exhibition in Nashville (my first Nationals in person).

It is sad that Naomi never really blossomed into a true champion. She won the silver medal at Senior Nationals, but then had her injury and her Singles career was derailed.

 

[antmanb]

Is there any difference (such as force of impact, etc.) on the hips in landing a throw jump as opposed to landing a side-by-side jump?

I believe that there is a big difference - throw jumps are usually much bigger than SBS jumps so the force on teh landing would be much greater becuase of the partner assist in addition to the usual spring the skater can achieve on their own.

Ant

 

[IDLERACER]

Click HERE​

 

[Sylvia]

FYI, the link above is Naomi Nari Nam's Intermediate (Pre-Novice in Canada) level free skate from what was then known as the U.S. "Junior Olympics" (nationals for the Juvenile and Intermediate levels) in March 1996 when she was 9-going-on-10 years old. She placed 4th overall/won the pewter medal (behind Ann Patrice McDonough, Lisa Nesuda and Maggie Leski).

 

[Tinymavy15]

Well...I am going to say that when it comes to the lutz jump both NNN and Zhang have the exact SAME technique of kicking up the free-leg in the entrance. Curiously, Nam never kicked her free-leg up (like Zhang) in the entrance to the flip and the flip became Nam's best jump when she was competing as a single's skater. I would say that overall Nam, Zhang and Sasha Cohen all have very similar technique (as if each was taught at some point by the same person).

The differences between Nam and Zhang are still obvious today as Nam skates with the kind of speed and power as a pairs skater that she had at age 13 as a singles skater. Zhang does not have this kind of speed and power. Also, looking at their jumps, even though the technique is similar, Nam has a lot more spring in her jumps (Dick Button used to rave about her ballon, a french term that I think means "air"). You can still see the spring in Nam's triple toe loop and double axel (the jumps she's performing now as a pair skater).

Naomi and Sasha were both coached by John Nicks in their teenage and pre-teen years. He gave them beautiful huge double axels.

 

[iloveaxel]

Naomi and Sasha were both coached by John Nicks in their teenage and pre-teen years. He gave them beautiful huge double axels.

Can NNN still do 2A these days? I've always been puzzled by NNN/T's jump layout in their long program.

They do a 3toe+3toe+seq and 2flip. Why don't they do 2A instead of 2flip? There's almost 2 points difference. I understand they have a plan to upgrade 2flip to 3flip in the future. However, if they can't master 3flip on a consistent basis, they will always include a 2A. 2A should be a non-brainer. Maybe NNN has lost her 2A, which is hardly to believe.

 

[temperboy28]

You sound like NNN had some marvelous career vs. Caroline Zhang, which itself was quite ludicrous. NNN was just a one-time wonder. She could not even master 5 triples, and did one clean program in her entire singles career.

Exactly. NNN accomplished squat compared to Zhang. If Zhang retired today atleast she would have had a great junior career of dominance, that most serious skating fans would remember.

NNN would have 1 memorable silver medal perormance, in a weakened "rebuilding" 1999 womens U.S Nationals field to her name, nothing else to note really. The most she would be remembered for is switching from a flash-in-the-pan singles skater who dealt with injuries, to being a pretty good pairs skater.

 

[temperboy28]

I simply explained why, IMHO, NNN was a better technical skater that Miss Zhang.

Obviously you don't know any of the coaches at my rink, or the skaters that they coach. They are all excellent at teaching correct jumping technique, something that either Caroline's coach is unable to do, or Caroline is just unwilling to learn. Maybe if she'd spend more time on technique and less time on developing more of those grossly contortionist moves, then Caroline would have better jumps.

NNN a better technical skater? So landing 6 triples programs with 1 triple lutz and 2 triple flips, is an inferior technical skater to a girl who never did even a decent attempt at the triple lutz, and only once stood up more then 3 triples in a program? Give me a break.

Why in the heck would Zhang want NNN's jumps??? I am sure Zhang much prefers being able to land 6 clean triples including 1 triple lutz and 2 triple flips regularly; to not being able to do a triple lutz to save her life, two foot almost all your triple tries, and be lucky to stand up 3 triples in a progarm like NNN. If Zhang had NNN's limited technical and jumping skills she wouldnt be dominating junior competition as she does. Fortunately for her she has her own much stronger jumps and technical abilities to dominate with, and is not held back by having the much inferior jumps and technical abilities of NNN.