Worlds: Men's FS

[oatmella]

I would not say Jackie was Nationalistic or biased towards Nathan this Worlds.

He predicted Yuzu to win. Also more of his tweets prior to mens SP were focused on Yuzu - he was in awe of the crowds at practice, reported that the condition of Yuzu's 4Lo was good, spectacular 4T-3A sequence.

Jackie wasn't reporting that Nathan's practices and jumps were going well until I think the morning of the SP. And then he was very on at practice - with clean run-thru at morning practice before the FS. He said on IceTalk that at the beginning of the week, it looked like Nathan might not even make the podium.

 

[chuckm]

Nathan came into Worlds with a cold. No wonder his earlier practices were off.

 

[eaglehelang]

I would not say Jackie was Nationalistic or biased towards Nathan this Worlds.

He predicted Yuzu to win. Also more of his tweets prior to mens SP were focused on Yuzu - he was in awe of the crowds at practice, reported that the condition of Yuzu's 4Lo was very good, spectacular 4T-3A sequence.

Jackie wasn't reporting that Nathan's practices and jumps were going well until I think the morning of the SP. And then he was very on at practice - with clean run-thru at morning practice before the FS. He said on IceTalk that at the beginning of the week, it looked like Nathan might not even make the podium.

Its odd we dont have the same impression. I dont recall Yuzuru's 4Loop reported to be 'good' in practice Yuzuru had multiple tries of 4 Loop- UR, Step outs, falls before finally landing one. At each practice.
If good as in the height, the ease Yuzuru seems to do it when's its successful, yes.

While Nathan's jumps from 1st practice onwards was quite good already, compared to the other men. Shoma had problems, Boyang had problems, etc.

 

[oatmella]

Not really, Nathan's earlier practices were not great. He particularly had problems with his 4F, we were all stressing in Nathan's FF about it. Jackie later said that in the beginning of the week he looked off, and was wondering if he would be able to make the podium.

Shoma's practices started out strong, he had fairly clean run-thrus early on. Jackie said on IceTalk that Shoma looked really strong in practice, so his performances here were a bit of a surprise.

Yuzu wasn't 100% with his 4Lo - but Jackie reported at his first practice, very excitedly - that he did 4LO! And I believe his earlier practices were stronger - after SP (I think?) he had a practice where he attempted many 4Lo, and was popping a lot of them.

He wasn't tweeting excitedly about Nathan's earlier practices - and we know how Jackie can be with ALL CAPS LIKE THIS - like I said, nothing very positive about practice until maybe right before SP.

 

[discode]

Cold and jet lag as well.

From practice reports Shoma looked the strongest early on, Nathan and Yuzu less so. But Nathan seemed to pace himself a lot better than Shoma or Yuzu did especially. The last day of practice he wasn't jumping nearly as much while Yuzu was really grinding away on his jumps. I wonder if he wore himself out towards the end.

 

[oatmella]

Raf kind of suggested that Yuzu had wore himself out at practice.

Raf's pacing of Nathan was pretty amazing - he wouldn't let him come back to California because he only had a week and would get too tired - and in the few days they were together in Japan, Nathan's jumps improved quite a bit and he managed to peak at just the right moment - for the SP.

 

[lurkz2]

Raf kind of suggested that Yuzu had wore himself out at practice.

Raf's pacing of Nathan was pretty amazing - he wouldn't let him come back to California because he only had a week and would get too tired - and in the few days they were together in Japan, Nathan's jumps improved quite a bit and he managed to peak at just the right moment - for the SP.

The 4F was problematic so much so Nathan had to replace it with a 4Lz for the SP. It was still a bit tilted in the FS.

 

[Casual]

Cold and jet lag as well.

From practice reports Shoma looked the strongest early on, Nathan and Yuzu less so. But Nathan seemed to pace himself a lot better than Shoma or Yuzu did especially. The last day of practice he wasn't jumping nearly as much while Yuzu was really grinding away on his jumps. I wonder if he wore himself out towards the end.

Jet lag for sure. I always suffer when I travel time zones; can't even imagine how skaters deal with it. Must be so hard.

Did Yuzu get over his injury? Over-practicing is never good, but especially after a recent injury.

Japanese guys must have felt much more pressure than usual, too. More nerves leads to over-practicing.

 

[Atlantis]

Did Yuzu get over his injury? Over-practicing is never good, but especially after a recent injury.

No, he was on pain killers yet again. He was able to jump 3A without pain but not quads. After worlds JSF reported that he has pain and inflammation and is going to have rehabilitation for 2-3 months.

 

[eaglehelang]

Not really, Nathan's earlier practices were not great. He particularly had problems with his 4F, we were all stressing in Nathan's FF about it. Jackie later said that in the beginning of the week he looked off, and was wondering if he would be able to make the podium.

Shoma's practices started out strong, he had fairly clean run-thrus early on. Jackie said on IceTalk that Shoma looked really strong in practice, so his performances here were a bit of a surprise.

Yuzu wasn't 100% with his 4Lo - but Jackie reported at his first practice, very excitedly - that he did 4LO! And I believe his earlier practices were stronger - after SP (I think?) he had a practice where he attempted many 4Lo, and was popping a lot of them.

He wasn't tweeting excitedly about Nathan's earlier practices - and we know how Jackie can be with ALL CAPS LIKE THIS - like I said, nothing very positive about practice until maybe right before SP.

Oh ok. I could have gotten the tweets mixed up with those from a Shoma fan. He/she was at most of the men's practices. + watching the vid clips released by Japanese media.

On Shoma, personally I'm not surprised with his performance at WC. At 4CC in Feb, he watered down his content in both SP(1 quad) & LP(3 quads) due to lingering ankle injury. I'm surprised Jackie's surprised with Shoma's performance.

Nathan changed his 4F to 4Lutz early on when the 4F was not working for him.

On Jackie being excited, I think it was his 1st time watching Yuzuru's 4 Loop, 4T3Aseq in person live. I remember reading the report & thinking meh, Yuzuru's could land the 4Lo since 2016, what is there to be excited abt?

 

[ancientpeas]

Dudes and Dudettes:

We can do the agree to disagree thing here.

Gather round my sweet summer children and I will tell you a story:

I have always been bored to tears by Meryl and Charlie. Like seriously I'm not a fan at all. However, I can not be a fan of theirs and still admire them for all the things that are superior about them: Speed, precision, dedication and hard work. I am glad that they won the 2014 gold in Sochi. Good for them. If I never watch another D/W program again in my life I'll be just fine but to say that they are not artistic simply because I prefer V/M or P/B or any number of other teams is very very short sighted and limiting. I do not enjoy modern ballet and yet I am a huge fan of classical ballet (BTW.. I have, combined, more than 15 years of dance classes behind me: 7 of Ballet, 5 of what they used to call Jazz, 2 years of Highland, 2 years of Ukrainian and a year of folk dancing along with 4 years of gymnastics). This, my lack of appreciation for modern ballet, does not make modern ballet inartistic. I always say to myself that I just lack the sophistication to enjoy it.

I did a year of art history in High School and again as part of my medieval studies degree and this is what I learned from it: Just because it isn't pleasing to my eye does not make it not art and not artistic. Different things appeal to different people and that is okay. If we all loved one kind of art the world would be a less interesting and diverse place. We thrive by accepting diversity and different artistic visions not by saying that one is superior to another because it is what pleases us. That is so "the world revolves around me" that I can't even.

As far as watching them skate it isn't just artistry that makes Yuzuru Hanyu a great skater. He exudes confidence and raw charisma. He is a STAR and a unstoppable force. There is a reason why he is the most popular skater in the world. I actually prefer Shoma and Jason artistically but there is no denying in my mind who is the is the one with mega star power and that is Hanyu. There is also no doubt in my mind that Nathan deserved to win here and he did.

TL;DR: Art (and artistry) is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Casual]

Just because it isn't pleasing to my eye does not make it not art and not artistic. Different things appeal to different people and that is okay. If we all loved one kind of art the world would be a less interesting and diverse place. We thrive by accepting diversity and different artistic visions not by saying that one is superior to another because it is what pleases us.

All true for sure. But then, there's Banksy. As in, not art.

 

[Tavi...]

Dudes and Dudettes:

We can do the agree to disagree thing here.

Gather round my sweet summer children and I will tell you a story:

I have always been bored to tears by Meryl and Charlie. Like seriously I'm not a fan at all. However, I can not be a fan of theirs and still admire them for all the things that are superior about them: Speed, precision, dedication and hard work. I am glad that they won the 2014 gold in Sochi. Good for them. If I never watch another D/W program again in my life I'll be just fine but to say that they are not artistic simply because I prefer V/M or P/B or any number of other teams is very very short sighted and limiting. I do not enjoy modern ballet and yet I am a huge fan of classical ballet (BTW.. I have, combined, more than 15 years of dance classes behind me: 7 of Ballet, 5 of what they used to call Jazz, 2 years of Highland, 2 years of Ukrainian and a year of folk dancing along with 4 years of gymnastics). This, my lack of appreciation for modern ballet, does not make modern ballet inartistic. I always say to myself that I just lack the sophistication to enjoy it.

I did a year of art history in High School and again as part of my medieval studies degree and this is what I learned from it: Just because it isn't pleasing to my eye does not make it not art and not artistic. Different things appeal to different people and that is okay. If we all loved one kind of art the world would be a less interesting and diverse place. We thrive by accepting diversity and different artistic visions not by saying that one is superior to another because it is what pleases us. That is so "the world revolves around me" that I can't even.

As far as watching them skate it isn't just artistry that makes Yuzuru Hanyu a great skater. He exudes confidence and raw charisma. He is a STAR and a unstoppable force. There is a reason why he is the most popular skater in the world. I actually prefer Shoma and Jason artistically but there is no denying in my mind who is the is the one with mega star power and that is Hanyu. There is also no doubt in my mind that Nathan deserved to win here and he did.

TL;DR: Art (and artistry) is in the eye of the beholder.

Thank you very much for this post - if I could give it 15 likes I would.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Dudes and Dudettes:

We can do the agree to disagree thing here.

Gather round my sweet summer children and I will tell you a story:

I have always been bored to tears by Meryl and Charlie. Like seriously I'm not a fan at all. However, I can not be a fan of theirs and still admire them for all the things that are superior about them: Speed, precision, dedication and hard work. I am glad that they won the 2014 gold in Sochi. Good for them. If I never watch another D/W program again in my life I'll be just fine but to say that they are not artistic simply because I prefer V/M or P/B or any number of other teams is very very short sighted and limiting. I do not enjoy modern ballet and yet I am a huge fan of classical ballet (BTW.. I have, combined, more than 15 years of dance classes behind me: 7 of Ballet, 5 of what they used to call Jazz, 2 years of Highland, 2 years of Ukrainian and a year of folk dancing along with 4 years of gymnastics). This, my lack of appreciation for modern ballet, does not make modern ballet inartistic. I always say to myself that I just lack the sophistication to enjoy it.

I did a year of art history in High School and again as part of my medieval studies degree and this is what I learned from it: Just because it isn't pleasing to my eye does not make it not art and not artistic. Different things appeal to different people and that is okay. If we all loved one kind of art the world would be a less interesting and diverse place. We thrive by accepting diversity and different artistic visions not by saying that one is superior to another because it is what pleases us. That is so "the world revolves around me" that I can't even.

As far as watching them skate it isn't just artistry that makes Yuzuru Hanyu a great skater. He exudes confidence and raw charisma. He is a STAR and a unstoppable force. There is a reason why he is the most popular skater in the world. I actually prefer Shoma and Jason artistically but there is no denying in my mind who is the is the one with mega star power and that is Hanyu. There is also no doubt in my mind that Nathan deserved to win here and he did.

TL;DR: Art (and artistry) is in the eye of the beholder.

Let's hear it for Peas! This should be printed out and framed on the wall! It should be required reading for all! It should be pinned to the top of every competiton thread.

In other words I agree!

 

[Interspectator]

Dudes and Dudettes:

We can do the agree to disagree thing here.

Gather round my sweet summer children and I will tell you a story:

I have always been bored to tears by Meryl and Charlie. Like seriously I'm not a fan at all. However, I can not be a fan of theirs and still admire them for all the things that are superior about them: Speed, precision, dedication and hard work. I am glad that they won the 2014 gold in Sochi. Good for them. If I never watch another D/W program again in my life I'll be just fine but to say that they are not artistic simply because I prefer V/M or P/B or any number of other teams is very very short sighted and limiting. I do not enjoy modern ballet and yet I am a huge fan of classical ballet (BTW.. I have, combined, more than 15 years of dance classes behind me: 7 of Ballet, 5 of what they used to call Jazz, 2 years of Highland, 2 years of Ukrainian and a year of folk dancing along with 4 years of gymnastics). This, my lack of appreciation for modern ballet, does not make modern ballet inartistic. I always say to myself that I just lack the sophistication to enjoy it.

I did a year of art history in High School and again as part of my medieval studies degree and this is what I learned from it: Just because it isn't pleasing to my eye does not make it not art and not artistic. Different things appeal to different people and that is okay. If we all loved one kind of art the world would be a less interesting and diverse place. We thrive by accepting diversity and different artistic visions not by saying that one is superior to another because it is what pleases us. That is so "the world revolves around me" that I can't even.

As far as watching them skate it isn't just artistry that makes Yuzuru Hanyu a great skater. He exudes confidence and raw charisma. He is a STAR and a unstoppable force. There is a reason why he is the most popular skater in the world. I actually prefer Shoma and Jason artistically but there is no denying in my mind who is the is the one with mega star power and that is Hanyu. There is also no doubt in my mind that Nathan deserved to win here and he did.

TL;DR: Art (and artistry) is in the eye of the beholder.

I keep wanting to be your soulmate, Peas, but you sing Roxanne to me in the comp threads, and I yell Phantom lyrics at you in the comp threads. --You find Meryl and Charlie boring...aaaaaaaaaah....yet another point for which I might have to call you out for pistols at dawn! But you make good points. I love your post.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

https://twitter.com/Rora1608/status/1109565645509799936?s=19
Max Ambesi's take on 2019 WC, translated by this twitter user.

I believe this is the same Max Ambesi who said Boyang Jin's textbook 4Lutz was underscored

Whoa... hold on a sec... *Max Ambesi* was super salty about the WC results and whined about certain skaters (whom he consistently disparages) not being scored lower and whined about certain skaters (whom he consistently gushes over) not being scored higher? Shocking.

 

[Blades of Passion]

His thoughts are very good.

"As far as I'm concerned, an evaluation like this on the components of the program deserves immediately expulsion. It's not objectively possible that there is only a .25 difference on skating skills between Hanyu and Zhou."

"Zhou deserved 3rd place on the merit of completing everything he had planned, but if we believe that Zhou is the 3rd best skater in this competition, then we have confused ideas."

"The difference on the components between Hanyu and Chen is higher than what was marked. Although Nathan Chen has progressed on many small aspects, the difference between the two is more than just one point in a free program."

"We cannot accept that the components of the program grow in relation to the number of quads completed."

"You can not give 8 or 9 on a component mark to programs with such lacking qualities."

"I do not believe that when this scoring system was created, it wanted to reward one-dimensional athletes."

"If someone is able to get 130 in the technical score, then it should be possible to get 130 on the PCS."

 

[oatmella]

Max seems to have his favorites ... and raising the maximum PCS score could be even more problematic.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The technical mark and "second mark" were always meant to be close to the same maximum weight. If it's not working as such, then the system is inherently broken from what it was intended as.

I don't think the actual PCS factor needs to increased by that much though. Jumps are being overscored, both on the judges' own GOE and how much the extra GOE points are worth. Most elements are graded too high on the GOE by the judges, for that matter. Nathan's TES should have been 10 points lower, just from more accurate GOE marking. Then if the rules were altered so that bonus GOE for Triple/Quad jumps gets less points, it would go even lower.

 

[Tahuu]

Re-watching Yuzu and Nathan’s FS back-to-back with B.ESP is such an amazing treat!

Yuzu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrSmWJnFMa4

Nathan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YbSNk2e_DE

It reminds me the mood swinging of some fans on the forums: Got high on Yuzu’s clean skate and then got knocked into a coma by Nathan’s subsequent performance and scores. I totally understand the hurt Yuzu’s fans felt but I don’t think you are better than the trained ISU judges at judging and evaluating their performances.

Yuzu and Nathan are now 4 to 3, 4 to 4 if we count the cheesy 2017 WTT, in their head-to-head competitions. We can look forward to even greater battles ahead.