Kim's management team criticises judging at CoC

[CalebsMom]

I could understand a protest or complaint if Kim failed to win because of an edge call. But to whine after winning by a wide margin----that is just chutzpah.

Such arrogance is turning many former fans away from Kim.

Can I safely say then it's okay to call Mr. Obama a terrorist and Mr. Obama should not complain about it since he won the presidential elelction by a wide margin?

I don't think it's a matter of "win or lose." It's a matter of honor and integrity.

 

[Spun Silver]

But isn't the flip side of this - that we (or certainly I) spend a lot of my time b****nig and moaning about the judging system and the judges doing a poor job of marking what they see on the ice? If there has been a genuine error of judging then isn't it better that it get brought up and becomes high profile rather us all shurgging our shoulders and saying "typical" to each other?

Federations should make complaints if they percieve there has been an error. Like when a judge has input -2 where every other judge has given a +1 or +2. How else are mistakes rectified and/or judges asked to justify their marks. From my perspective these things supposedly happen behind closed doors, but since the errors keep coming it's obviously not working.

This is a good point. I guess I'm thinking the tech caller is like the umpire in baseball - his call is final and while for coaches and players to grumble about specific calls is expected (right down to the ritual shows of anger), it's not normal or sportsmanlike to appeal them or take them to the media. Umpires make mistakes all the time but on the whole it's better for the sport not to get hung up on an individual play in a game. I understand fans on boards getting out of control but the sport should be better than that.

Are you insisting that all judges score things the same way? What's the point of having a panel then? At least the current system does eliminate the extreme scores to begin with.

Maybe I shouldn't post on this stuff since I'm not an expert. I was speaking more as a fan to say that the intervention of Yu Na's federation - after a complete victory - felt highly political and that bothered me.

 

[Wrlmy]

Don't drag me into it just because you're idiotic enough to be barking up the wrong tree.

If my posts are classless enough to bug you, don't read them. No skin off my back.

No, I'm not idiotic, and I am perfectly capable of filtering all the craps I read. I read several major articles about thousands of threatening emails AA Ohno got from South Koreans after SLC. Now that is credible. But I'm yet to hear there was even an attempt to actually hurt him even during his stay in Korea.
Your thinking that some crazy maniac will try to kill Mao is extremely unfounded. First of all, there isn't even a single evidence of threat. Second, it's extremely unlikely that any threat, if there is, will be realized.
So, before you reduce "Yu-Na bots" to potential first-degree murderers, follow your own advice.

 

[Andalusia]

No, I'm not idiotic, and I am perfectly capable of filtering all the craps I read. I read several major articles about thousands of threatening emails AA Ohno got from South Koreans after SLC. Now that is credible. But I'm yet to hear there was even an attempt to actually hurt him even during his stay in Korea.
Your thinking that some crazy maniac will try to kill Mao is extremely unfounded. First of all, there isn't even a single evidence of threat. Second, it's extremely unlikely that any threat, if there is, will be realized.
So, before you reduce "Yu-Na bots" to potential first-degree murderers, follow your own advice.

I'm sure Monica Seles was warned beforehand and issued a threat before she was stabbed, wasn't she? Where's that rolling eyes icon when you need it?

Just because AA Ohno wasn't actually hurt doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. Maybe the opportunity just didn't present itself. The fact that threats alone were made is disgusting enough and should have been sufficient cause for worry. If Mao wins the gold over Kim at the Olympics due to what the Kim bots deem to be questionable judging, I'd expect another case like Ohno's but this time magnified a thousand fold. A situation like that isn't inconcievable to me, and it obviously isn't to others as well. You have to consider the underlying tension between the two countries that fuels the ill will on both sides. I don't necessarily think there would be intent to kill Mao either, but a certain amount of harm, that I could see.

So yes, that's my thinking and I'm sticking to it. I don't need you to tell me to follow the beat of my own drum. If you choose to think things are all hunky-dory and rosy and that no one is capable of concieving of such actions, that's your prerogative.

 

[bekalc]

I'm sure Monica Seles was warned beforehand and issued a threat before she was stabbed, wasn't she? Where's that rolling eyes icon when you need it?

Just because AA Ohno wasn't actually hurt doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. Maybe the opportunity just didn't present itself. The fact that threats alone were made is disgusting enough and should have been sufficient cause for worry. If Mao wins the gold over Kim at the Olympics due to what the Kim bots deem to be questionable judging, I'd expect another case like Ohno's but this time magnified a thousand fold. A situation like that isn't inconcievable to me, and it obviously isn't to others as well. You have to consider the underlying tension between the two countries that fuels the ill will on both sides. I don't necessarily think there would be intent to kill Mao either, but a certain amount of harm, that I could see.

So yes, that's my thinking and I'm sticking to it. I don't need you to tell me to follow the beat of my own drum. If you choose to think things are all hunky-dory and rosy and that no one is capable of concieving of such actions, that's your prerogative.

Well what about Mao bots potentially hurting Yu-na? I mean after all it's the Mao bots who are preteneding to be Yu-na fans and making up some of the crazy stories. Lovely how you give them passes.

 

[Andalusia]

Well what about Mao bots potentially hurting Yu-na? I mean after all it's the Mao bots who are preteneding to be Yu-na fans and making up some of the crazy stories. Lovely how you give them passes.

You're potentially a bot, IMO, so I'd take your opinion with a grain of salt. The fact that you're a bot, now that is lovely, too.

You say the Mao bots are pretending to be Yu-Na fans and making up crazy stories. Big deal. Just because you and a few others say so doesn't necessarily make it true. You, in particular, are quite susceptible to passing off rumours as absolute truths, so forgive me if I don't bite. I've noticed you spreading third-hand accounts left and right in the gymnastics threads over at FS Universe, for instance.

And no, I do believe nutty behaviour can work on almost any other side as well. However, Mao bots seem to be few and far between these days, at least on these boards. Maybe now that Mao is WC they don't have such gargantuan-sized chips on their shoulders. Or maybe there's more ill will from Kim's side because Japan is, more often than not, seen as the aggressor, I don't know.

 

[bekalc]

You're potentially a bot, IMO, so I'd take your opinion with a grain of salt. The fact that you're a bot, now that is lovely, too.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25090&page=5

As you can see I was really angry at the idea that Yu-na fans might be wanting to hurt Mao or anyone else, and even wanted to report it. (So botish of me) Until Wrmly who reads Japanese pointed out that it wasn't Yu-na fans.

Now maybe you think this is a-okay for Mao fans, you now to make up a story about Yu-na fans and pass them off as violent. But I certainly don't. It's a sick thing to do.

Honestly, your more likely to be a bot than I am, if your willing to excuse this or blame just one side. Frankly, I'm sick of both sides and unlike a lot of Yu-na fans, I'm willing to admit that she has her faults.

 

[chocola]

I haven't been on this forum very long. What I observe is that there are people who don't like a specific skater and keep bringing all the negative issues about her to make a big deal here while there are people busy defending her. If these defenders raise their voice to defend her, they become bots. This pattern seems to be repetitive. I find this whole thing pretty sad.

 

[Andalusia]

It's not me saying, it was Wrmly who posted some pretty strong proof of that one Andulsia, and how is that no big deal. Do you think accusing others of violence is a-okay?

Frankly, I think your much more likely to be a bot than I am. I like both girls equally and cheer for them equally. I'm sick of both sides. Something you can't say. .

I meant it's no big deal that you say Mao bots are posing as Yu-Na fans because I don't buy your word, you being a bot and all. Capito? I don't know who said what first - I haven't read the entire thread in detail. I have a daily ration of delusional bot ravings that I can take, you see.

You say you like both girls. That's what bots would say. In your case, you might start slavering all over Mao one day rather than Yu-Na, who knows. And me being a bot? Nah, I'd freely admit if I was one. There are skaters I admire in particular, but I'm not blind to their faults and I'd cough them up anytime if pressed.

 

[bekalc]

I meant it's no big deal that you say Mao bots are posing as Yu-Na fans because I don't buy your word, you being a bot and all. Capito? I don't know who said what first - I haven't read the entire thread in detail. I have a daily ration of delusional bot ravings that I can take, you see.

You say you like both girls. That's what bots would say. In your case, you might start slavering all over Mao one day rather than Yu-Na, who knows. And me being a bot? Nah, I'd freely admit if I was one. There are skaters I admire in particular, but I'm not blind to their faults and I'd cough them up anytime if pressed.

So your willing to accuse a whole group of fans of potential violence and not even look at evidence that will show they aren't as bad as all that. Then, you'll say that your not going to cheer for Yu-na know because of this. But you refuse to look at a thread which shows some of the mischief that your favorite skater's fans have been up too.

That's rich, and if that's not bot behavior I'm not really sure what bot behavior is.

I like both skaters, I really don't have a bone in the fight because I like both skaters, and I'm sickened by both sides.

 

[Andalusia]

If I'm a bot, so are you. And I like skaters other than Mao or Yu-na.
Well maybe you should read the thread again. Andalasia, because as you can see, I didn't make this one up...Your the one who is going on and on about how you now dislike Yu-na because of your fans, maybe you need to see what some Mao fans are capable of doing.

And for the record once again, I was pretty cool with Yu-na's edge call. I wasn't screaming unfairness, I wasn't calling the judges corrupt, I was willing to go with what the technical caller said. Hardly the actions of a crazed fan who can't see reason.

If you insist I am a bot, go ahead. No skin off my back.

I've noticed a pattern with you. Start off with a great defence of Yu-Na. Some cross-fire will then ensure. Proceed with you insisting that no, you like Mao too and that you think both are great skaters. Give your reasons for why you think this is the case. Rinse and repeat with other skaters who you deem are 'technically proficient'. Very bot-like, if you ask me.

And I don't dislike Yu-Na. I just want Mao to beat her because can you imagine the crowing we'll be hearing from the bots (not nice, ordinary fans, mind you) if Yu-Na does indeed become WC? I'd have to go into hiding from Golden Skate for days.

And don't go off and do what you usually do again by spreading half-truths in saying I'm asserting that Yu-Na fans are violent and want to hurt Mao. I've only said that it's a possibility from some crazed bots based on what we've seen and on previous cases, and I'm in no way saying that it's an absolute certainty. I'd say the same of Mao fans if they displayed similar behaviour.

I think I'd better refrain from saying more in this thread. I'm predicting Mathman coming down hard on me if I continue in helping to take this thread off-topic.

 

[bekalc]

If you insist I am a bot, go ahead. No skin off my back.

I've noticed a pattern with you. Start off with a great defence of Yu-Na. Some cross-fire will then ensure. Proceed with you insisting that no, you like Mao too and that you think both are great skaters. Give your reasons for why you think this is the case. Rinse and repeat with other skaters who you deem are 'technically proficient'. Very bot-like, if you ask me.

And I don't dislike Yu-Na. I just want Mao to beat her because can you imagine the crowing we'll be hearing from the bots (not nice, ordinary fans, mind you) if Yu-Na does indeed become WC? I'd have to go into hiding from Golden Skate for days.

And don't go off and do what you usually do again by spreading half-truths in saying I'm asserting that Yu-Na fans are violent and want to hurt Mao. I've only said that it's a possibility from some crazed bots based on what we've seen and on previous cases, and I'm in no way saying that it's an absolute certainty. I'd say the same of Mao fans if they displayed similar behaviour.

I think I'd better refrain from saying more in this thread. I'm predicting Mathman coming down hard on me if I continue in helping to take this thread off-topic.

Yes Andulsia, and I think you failed to notice when I said that I was prepared to accept the technical callers calling Yu-na's flip a lip...Because you know that's what crazed fans do????

Mao has won me over. Now, I guess if I had to choose who I want to see win right now, it will likely be Yu-na. Not because I like Yu-na so much better but because I think Mao is far more likely to make it to Sochi than Yu-na will, and I'd like to see both become Olympic Champions.

This being said Mao is so amazing that I can't bring myself to root against her. And if she gets he triple axel consistent, I'll be the first to say that Mao deserves to win everything.. Period.

My dream scenario though is Yu-na in Vancover, and Mao in Sochi.. A la Yagudin/Plushenko.

 

[chocola]

there isn't anything wrong about defending your favorite skaters. defending comes after bashing.

 

[chuckm]

I like both Kim and Asada, but can't say I'm a rabid fan of either. I enjoy watching both of them skate, and feel that they fully earn the high scores they get.

But I detest the bot posts, and I think that's the reason why I'm not a huge fan of either one. All that vitriol is a big turnoff.

 

[enzet]

Yes Andulsia, and I think you failed to notice when I said that I was prepared to accept the technical callers calling Yu-na's flip a lip...Because you know that's what crazed fans do?

I probably do slightly prefer Yu-na. Mainly because I liked her first, but Mao has won me over.. Now, I want both to be world champions, and so I'm rooting for Yu-na this year, but I can't bring myself to root against Mao. If Mao gets her triple axel consistent, I'll be the first to say that she deserves to win everything.....If I root for Yu-na a bit more now it's because I see Mao lasting longer in figure skating than Yu-na does, and well I'd like to see both become Olympic Champs.

Not that it means much but I'd just like to say I totally believe you, bekalc. I could see the time when Mao started to win you over and you came to like both girls more or less equally despite still being called the biggest Yu-Na fan out there.
If all Mao/Yu-Na fans were as "crazed" as you, things would certainly get easier.

Good luck to both Yu-Na and Mao!:agree: Let's enjoy their beautiful skating while they are still on top of their game for we might not see another skater coming even close to their level any time soon.

 

[Tonichelle]

General Reminder: bringing issues from other boards is not welcome here. If you have issues with a certain member take it off the boards. This is all in the guidelines, please review them.

 

[HCOSurfer]

there isn't anything wrong about defending your favorite skaters. defending comes after bashing.

The problem is no one was really bashing Yuna except for one poster in particular. People were just pointing out that it looked like Yuna took off of an outside edge on her flip, and other posters literally went psycho on those that pointed it out. Now I'm starting to become afraid to voice my opinion, because if I do I know certain posters will probably flip out.

 

[R.D.]

oh my goodness. Folks, we have instantly been transported back to 2002-03. I thought the forum came a LONG way in healing those wounds and bridging gaps between differences of opinion. Even last season, the fights were kept to a minimum (in comparison to previous years). What happened this season??? Posters attacking other posters, and potentially other skaters. All because she likes Yuna, but he prefers Mao. :indiff:

Anyway, I have one question: What is a "bot" and what makes a poster one? Is it a code word for "uberfan"? Or just a derogatory term to throw at any fan who doesn't agree with another?

Who cares if Yuna "lips" or not. If she does, she'll rightfully begin to get called on it. For the sake of fair judging I would hope she does. If not, then maybe the protesters have a valid point after all. BUT- She won this event by a landslide. What's the 2-3 points or however much it would have been worth? IMRHO, this is a non-issue and is belaboring the point. But oh man, just wait until the GPF. Might have to take a "leave of absence" for that one.

 

[bekalc]

The problem is no one was really bashing Yuna except for one poster in particular. People were just pointing out that it looked like Yuna took off of an outside edge on her flip, and other posters literally went psycho on those that pointed it out. Now I'm starting to become afraid to voice my opinion, because if I do I know certain posters will probably flip out.

I agree. It was almost like Yu-na can do no wrong... And it' s like gosh she's not perfect.

 

[Hsuhs]

Anyway, I have one question: What is a "bot" and what makes a poster one? Is it a code word for "uberfan"? Or just a derogatory term to throw at any fan who doesn't agree with another?

The answers are in this thread:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25090&page=3

I too have a question: what was exactly going on back in 2002-2003?