Kim's management team criticises judging at CoC

[shallwedansu]

4 pages of how horrible it is to like Yu-Na and her fans.
Looks like the original poster of this thread got exactly what he/she wanted.

Some people are just looking to start up trouble. At least bots come right out and say they're a bot without shame, but it's the sly instigators who are worse! The people who bring up Yu-Na bots into every conversation, or Apolo Ohno, or post Youtube hate videos, these people are worse than bots.

It may seem like those of us who are defending Yu-Na right now are only fans of her, but it only appears that way because she was first to compete. Had Mao started competing before Yu-Na, I'm positive most of us who are defending Yu-Na right now would be doing the same for Mao.

This idiotic cycle is going to reverse roles and repeat itself when Mao starts competing later this week. I know I'm going to have to give an internet smackdown to one Yu-Na bot or two after this week.

 

[Ginask8s]

Why cant everyone including her management realize that noone is perfect all the time.

 

[sweetime]

what?

oh....

look who's talking....japanese

 

[Mathman]

I too have a question: what was exactly going on back in 2002-2003?

At that time there were big fights on Golden Skate between Michelle Kwan fans and those who were not so much into Michelle (including especially Sasha Cohen fans and Irina Slutskaya fans). The non-Kwans felt that they were being bullied by the pro-Kwans, who were in the majority. Some people left the board over it.

 

[R.D.]

At that time there were big fights on Golden Skate between Michelle Kwan fans and those who were not so much into Michelle (including especially Sasha Cohen fans and Irina Slutskaya fans). The non-Kwans felt that they were being bullied by the pro-Kwans, who were in the majority. Some people left the board over it.

A few folks were banned as a result of that mess as well IIRC.

I'm afraid the same thing is going to happen now over the developing squabble of what is being called the "Yuna Bots vs Mao Bots". And Mao hasn't even skated yet this season! I figure after TEB this will intensify even more, so we'd better get ready for a bumpy ride. I'm just relieved I'm not in the middle of this one!

 

[ks777]

A few folks were banned as a result of that mess as well IIRC.

I'm afraid the same thing is going to happen now over the developing squabble of what is being called the "Yuna Bots vs Mao Bots". And Mao hasn't even skated yet this season! I figure after TEB this will intensify even more, so we'd better get ready for a bumpy ride. I'm just relieved I'm not in the middle of this one!

I was around but don't remember.. was I one of the bots back then? I don't remember.

 

[Hsuhs]

At that time there were big fights on Golden Skate between Michelle Kwan fans and those who were not so much into Michelle (including especially Sasha Cohen fans and Irina Slutskaya fans). The non-Kwans felt that they were being bullied by the pro-Kwans, who were in the majority. Some people left the board over it.

I see. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[R.D.]

The answers are in this thread:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25090&page=3

I don't think that really makes it any clearer. just seems like a bunch of overzealous fans to me...I take it that those people are what you guys are calling "bots".

 

[R.D.]

At that time there were big fights on Golden Skate between Michelle Kwan fans and those who were not so much into Michelle (including especially Sasha Cohen fans and Irina Slutskaya fans). The non-Kwans felt that they were being bullied by the pro-Kwans, who were in the majority. Some people left the board over it.

There was a name for those "pro-Kwans", lest we forget our past: Kwaniacs

It only turned nasty when certain Kwanfans threw temper-tamtrums every time someone made a post that did not paint MK in a rosy light. It involved name-calling, poster-bashing and labeling (i.e. you're just a deranged Cohen or Slutskaya fan) Keep in mind, most weren't even derogatory posts let alone bash posts (although a few were). And then those non-Kwans would fire back (well, some of them, a few others just backed off) and then we had an endless, tiring squabble. What complicated things is that the Kwanfans had the overwhelming numbers, so it was not a "fair fight" so to speak. Drained a lot of the life out of the forum during the late Kwan Years I felt. (Or, if you like this type of drama, it added life to the forum.) But I'm scared more by this Mao/Yuna fan feud because it seems like some fans are going as far as playing pranks on the judges and taunting opponents, and we didn't see that with the Kwan/Cohen feud. This could get serious and I hope the mods are ready.

 

[AwesomeIce]

There was a name for those "pro-Kwans", lest we forget our past: Kwaniacs

It only turned nasty when certain Kwanfans threw temper-tamtrums every time someone made a post that did not paint MK in a rosy light. It involved name-calling, poster-bashing and labeling (i.e. you're just a deranged Cohen or Slutskaya fan) Keep in mind, most weren't even derogatory posts let alone bash posts (although a few were). And then those non-Kwans would fire back (well, some of them, a few others just backed off) and then we had an endless, tiring squabble. Drained a lot of the life out of the forum during the late Kwan Years I felt. (Or, if you like this type of drama, it added life to the forum.) But I'm scared more by this Mao/Yuna fan feud because it seems like some fans are going as far as playing pranks on the judges and taunting opponents, and we didn't see that with the Kwan/Cohen feud. This could get serious and I hope the mods are ready.

I have always found the Cohen-heads to be worse than the Kwaniacs. Though I think Mirai has some whacked fans (uber touchy! Let us never say a negative word about princess Mirai!), and Caroline has some really out-of-touch fan, too. Not as bad as the Yu-Na monsters.

 

[mycelticblessing]

Can I safely say then it's okay to call Mr. Obama a terrorist and Mr. Obama should not complain about it since he won the presidential elelction by a wide margin?

I don't think it's a matter of "win or lose." It's a matter of honor and integrity.

Question: Why does so many who support all this Hoo-Ha over the CoC issue use the example of Mr. Obama being called a terrorist to support their stand?

It is not even close to what happened at CoC. Firstly, being called a terrorist would be a personal attack on an individual. The 'e' on the flip at CoC is hardly a personal attack. It's a critic of her technique. Brian Orser had already filed a complaint. They are already defending their case. All this fuss that is occurring now is just too much and unnecessary.

 

[R.D.]

I have always found the Cohen-heads to be worse than the Kwaniacs.

There were crazies on both sides, definitely. But I developed a bias because it seems like there were just so many more of the Kwaniacs than the "Cohenheads". However, there is one Cohen fan in particular that just about drove me up the wall probably more than any of the Kwaniacs did.

Though I think Mirai has some whacked fans (uber touchy! Let us never say a negative word about princess Mirai!), and Caroline has some really out-of-touch fan, too. Not as bad as the Yu-Na monsters.

I've said a whole lot about fandom in my time here so I'll spare the lecture. But in general, once you reach the level of fandom where you start feeling an "attachment" to the person you're a fan of, you stop thinking rationally and it leads you to do bizarre things.

 

[Hsuhs]

there were just so many more of the Kwaniacs than the "Cohenheads".

Would it be disrespectful to call certain individuals Yunatics then?

 

[AwesomeIce]

On the flip side, Kimmie Meissner always seems to have really nice fans. They don't go about attacking other people. Carolina Kostner's fans don't tend to flip out on others, either. Maybe that's why I prefer the two of them over Yu-Na/Mao/Mirai/Caroline/Sasha.

 

[R.D.]

On the flip side, Kimmie Meissner always seems to have really nice fans. They don't go about attacking other people.

You're sure about that?

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=343418&postcount=15

:chorus:


haha, but in general, I agree. And notice how kind the press has been to her in comparison to lots of other struggling athletes. That's something I find quite fascinating but it hasn't really been mentioned or talked about here.

 

[shallwedansu]

These so called murderous, dangerous "Yu-Na monsters" do not exist on this board and they never have. I've not read a single post from someone in this forum about threatening judges or any other competitors. These kind of fans do not exist at all here, so please, for the last time just drop the issue already.

Isn't it obvious this thread (and all the other ones with Yu-Na in the title) was created to make Yu-Na look bad? It is also obvious to me SvetlanaInSeoul is just another person posing as a Korean fan to make them look bad.

Question: Why does so many who support all this Hoo-Ha over the CoC issue use the example of Mr. Obama being called a terrorist to support their stand?

I think it's because the president of our country is someone most of us would honor and be proud of representing out nation and Yu-Na is probably someone of that kind of importance to the people of South Korea. Obviously, not that kind of power, but she is somewhat of a hero in her home country, someone revered, honored, and they are enthusiastically proud of. That's my 2 cents. (I keep thinking back to all the times Brian has said it's like traveling with Princess Di when he's in Korea with Yu-Na.)

 

[ks777]

These so called murderous, dangerous "Yu-Na monsters" do not exist on this board and they never have. I've not read a single post from someone in this forum about threatening judges or any other competitors. These kind of fans do not exist at all here, so please, for the last time just drop the issue already.

Isn't it obvious this thread (and all the other ones with Yu-Na in the title) was created to make Yu-Na look bad? It is also obvious to me SvetlanaInSeoul is just another person posing as a Korean fan to make them look bad.


I think it's because the president of our country is someone most of us would honor and be proud of representing out nation and Yu-Na is probably someone of that kind of importance to the people of South Korea. Obviously, not that kind of power, but she is somewhat of a hero in her home country, someone revered, honored, and they are enthusiastically proud of. That's my 2 cents. (I keep thinking back to all the times Brian has said it's like traveling with Princess Di when he's in Korea with Yu-Na.)

I don't think anyone ever mentioning there was dangerous posters on this board, rather really annoying new posters who think Yuna can do no wrong as if she is a princess or something in the last few weeks

 

[shallwedansu]

I don't think anyone ever mentioning there was dangerous posters on this board, rather really annoying new posters who think Yuna can do no wrong as if she is a princess or something in the last few weeks

From the way people were reacting in here, it seems as if all fans of Yu-Na must be alike, dangerous with murderous intentions.

Did you miss the whole discussion on Apolo Anton Ohno and the crazy Korean fans? When people were wondering if Yu-Na's fans would react the same way, with death threats?

Or the part about GPF being in Korea, so people were worried of what might possibly happen to Mao, as if the Korean fans would actually hurt her?

Just look at the previous page:

But I'm scared more by this Mao/Yuna fan feud because it seems like some fans are going as far as playing pranks on the judges and taunting opponents, and we didn't see that with the Kwan/Cohen feud. This could get serious and I hope the mods are ready.

Sounds like fear from supposedly dangerous fans in this forum.

What I hate the most about this is people reducing all of Yu-Na's fans to that of a Yu-Na bot: obsessive, dangerous, and Korean.

Speaking for myself, I'm not any of the above descriptions and I would like it if those assumptions were not made about me or others who are fans of Yu-Na.

 

[antmanb]

This is a good point. I guess I'm thinking the tech caller is like the umpire in baseball - his call is final and while for coaches and players to grumble about specific calls is expected (right down to the ritual shows of anger), it's not normal or sportsmanlike to appeal them or take them to the media. Umpires make mistakes all the time but on the whole it's better for the sport not to get hung up on an individual play in a game. I understand fans on boards getting out of control but the sport should be better than that.

I suppose using an analogy like the umpire makes far more sense that good or bad you just take the call as it comes, however, the judges and the tech panel, in particular hold far more power than the umpire or referee in a game because the calls they make do not, as often affect the overall scoring of that event. Also if the referee (certainly in football (soccer!)) makes a bad call you can bet that a number of players will run up to him to tell him and the coaches and managers on the side lines will go mad. A skater doesn't have the chance to know how the program has been scored until after the program is done.

Are you insisting that all judges score things the same way? What's the point of having a panel then? At least the current system does eliminate the extreme scores to begin with.

No not at all but when i see that one or two judges are 3 whole GOE points out from the closest to them - all of the rest of the judges are in +GOE territory then i suspect incompetence of the highest order or some form of collusion - especially when there is more than one. The difference between marking a + or a - GOE is massively different. I can understand judges giving 0 when the rest have gone + or - but going - when the rest are + or vice verse - there is something wrong. And worse still, because of annonymous judging, we have to hope that they (a) name and shame them in the judging meetings; (b) get asked to justify the score; (c) if they can't get sent to more training and (d) if they persist, then get banned from judging.

Do i believe these things happen? Honestly i don't. So if we can kick up an almighty fuss when these things happen it might prompt some action.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

There was a name for those "pro-Kwans", lest we forget our past: Kwaniacs

It only turned nasty when certain Kwanfans threw temper-tamtrums every time someone made a post that did not paint MK in a rosy light. It involved name-calling, poster-bashing and labeling (i.e. you're just a deranged Cohen or Slutskaya fan) Keep in mind, most weren't even derogatory posts let alone bash posts (although a few were). And then those non-Kwans would fire back (well, some of them, a few others just backed off) and then we had an endless, tiring squabble. What complicated things is that the Kwanfans had the overwhelming numbers, so it was not a "fair fight" so to speak. Drained a lot of the life out of the forum during the late Kwan Years I felt. (Or, if you like this type of drama, it added life to the forum.) But I'm scared more by this Mao/Yuna fan feud because it seems like some fans are going as far as playing pranks on the judges and taunting opponents, and we didn't see that with the Kwan/Cohen feud. This could get serious and I hope the mods are ready.

But to be fair - for 2002 (surely is was the 2001/2002 leading up to the Olympics when it all kicked off?) people were genuinely discussing the technical and aritistic merits of the skaters. Amongst some of the crazed fandom, there was actual debate about the skating. I suppose we didn't have a judging system that micro analysed the 0.02 seconds involved in a potential change of edge though?

I actually think 2002 was a pretty reasonable year - and there were three skaters that people were debating.

This latest round of genuinely CRAZED bashing reminds me far more of 1997/1998 when it was a two horse race between Tara and Michelle - both in their teens, with rabid teen fans who temper tantrummed (is that even a word?) all over the internet as much as possible, dipped into racism and more. Batton down the hatches folks cos i think this will be far more like 1998.

Ant