2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24 | Page 61 | Golden Skate

2015 US Nationals Senior Ladies FS Jan 24

No, she shouldn't. Not if the 3 Russians skate their best. Gracie Gold is frankly better than these performances as well, if she can put two clean programs together.

Ashley should be capable of winning the World Championship if she skated clean SP+LP, as compared to the rest of the field this year, but she is very underserved by her programs. She has maturity over the rest of the field but the actual choreography and artistry isn't there. It could be but it isn't.



The triple toe was underrotated. Look at where her toepick leaves the ice. She turns on the ice an extra 1/4 turn before jumping. It's a cheat. She even does it on her double toeloop.

You're right that it was not a 133 program. It was actually quite a bit less than that; she was 20 points overscored. Two underrotated jumps, rather weak transitions, average skating skills, average footwork, mediocore spins (even less than that, given the mistake on the last spin of not holding the sit position), and the choreography isn't very good.

Scored correctly:

2Axel, +1 GOE = 3.8
3Lutz+3Toe< , +1.5 GOE = 9.95
2Axel+2Toe, 0 GOE = 4.6
FSSp4, +1 GOE = 3.5
CCoSp3, +1 GOE = 3.5
(jump bonus starts)
3Loop+1Looop+3Sal<, +.5 GOE = 9.81
3Flip, +.5 GOE = 6.18
3Loop, +1.5 GOE = 6.66
StSq4, +.5 GOE = 4.25 (received +3 GOE on this, which is one of the biggest jokes ever. Slow, shallow edges)
3Lutz, +1 GOE = 7.3
ChSq, +1.5 GOE = 3.05
FCCoSp1 (failed to do sit spin position), +1 GOE = 2.5

Tech Total = 65.1

Skating Skills - 8.0 = 12.8
Transitions - 7.5 = 12.0
Performance - 8.5 = 13.6
Choreography - 7.75 = 12.4
Interpretation - 8.0 = 12.8

PCS = 63.6

Total = 128.7

Granted, everyone "at the top" is overscored for the most part, but CoP scores are supposed to be given in absolutes. If you compare this performance to the best of Yu-Na Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner, Michelle Kwan, or Sasha Cohen, then this is accurate for what she actually put out on the ice. It was strong and confident but not incredibly skilled or spectacular or musical. Those marks are the most generous I could possibly give. It doesn't even feel totally right calling her 3Lutz+3Toe or Choreography Sequence to be worthy of "+1.5" GOE. Her choreography sequence consists of a couple turns, a single slightly-above-average spiral, and a slightly-above-average split jump, all separated by crossovers.

I'd be careful if I were you, that sounds dangerously close to having your own opinion. :biggrin: Personally I thought Ashley deserved to win, but the points were ridiculous, both of her 3-3s were pretty questionable and I have never gotten the love for her FS, it's just a very superficial program with not many transitions, few moves that actually reflect the music and a lot of fierce face towards the end (The faces throughout the "One day I'll fly away" section were just so incredibly mawkish). It's a 130ish skate but that's it. Karen Chen was also ridiculously overscored, I really like her but the amount of crossovers she does in her free combined with five clean triples does not make a 135 skate, at all. Still I'm really glad to see her skate reasonably well considering her struggles this season. I also didn't think Polina was as far behind the top three as the judges would have you believe it, yes she was also overscored but not nearly to the same extent as the top three.
 
Upon seeing Ashley's jumps in slow-mo, I must say that she was overmarked (though she still deserved to win). Not sure about her 3T but her 3S was definitely underrotated enough to be given an underrotation call, but then again I only really noticed it after seeing the slow-mo replay of it. She probably should have gotten edge calls on her lutzes too. Hopefully she'll fix her spins and her 3S before Worlds. I really do want to see her medal at worlds!!
The second lutz looked good to me! I can't really tell from the video that I saw from the first lutz but considering the fact, that she didn't get a edge call at GPF this should be good, too.
Loved her performance. It seems to me that she's finally realized that this is a sport first and foremost.
And I don't have a problem with the national score inflations, it was the same in the 6.0 era.
 
I'd be careful if I were you, that sounds dangerously close to having your own opinion. :biggrin: Personally I thought Ashley deserved to win, but the points were ridiculous, both of her 3-3s were pretty questionable and I have never gotten the love for her FS, it's just a very superficial program with not many transitions, few moves that actually reflect the music and a lot of fierce face towards the end (The faces throughout the "One day I'll fly away" section were just so incredibly mawkish). It's a 130ish skate but that's it. Karen Chen was also ridiculously overscored, I really like her but the amount of crossovers she does in her free combined with five clean triples does not make a 135 skate, at all. Still I'm really glad to see her skate reasonably well considering her struggles this season. I also didn't think Polina was as far behind the top three as the judges would have you believe it, yes she was also overscored but not nearly to the same extent as the top three.

I'm not going to add anything that hasn't already been said. 148 :laugh: That's way higher than Mao's Sochi FS... ridiculous, and Mao's Rach 2 is a masterpiece.

I can't even tell that Ashley's lutzes are lutzes as their entries are so odd. They look like a blend of a flip, toe, and sal.
 
I was getting ready to say something for you until this PCS...

Can you really argue she deserves more than an 8 for SS or more on any of the other components actually. These are very good components, there's no way she should be in the 9s for anything, and her transitions are definitely 7 level. Honestly I'd have given her a 7.00 for choreography.
 
yeah... 10 minutes ago, I was all about it...but then she opens that mouth & I go right back rolling my eyes at her...
I agree. Ashley just won't let people like her with her skating, she has to open her mouth and negate all good feelings about her.

I love her ego. It makes her a champion.
Please. What about the champions without egos, are they not really champions, because they have likable personalities?
 
The score is a joke. So far US is beating Russia with their inflated marks(not on the Italia level though with C/L scores:rolleye:)
Happy for Ashley though after last year's 4th place, she is a fighter.
 
I agree. Ashley just won't let people like her with her skating, she has to open her mouth and negate all good feelings about her.


Please. What about the champions without egos, are they not really champions, because they have likable personalities?

So she should remain mute just because you don't like her personality? That's a pretty scary outlook to have. As for the ego making her a champion thing, I think SkateFiguring means that for her specifically, her ego is what pushes her to be a champion, it's her confidence and drive that makes her a champion. Where as say with Rachael Flatt in 2010 it was her hard work and determination. Everyone has a different aspect that makes them a champion, Ashley's is her ego (Or self-assuredness, if you don't want to be harsh).
 
Please. What about the champions without egos, are they not really champions, because they have likable personalities?
Champions yes, but boring. Especially when they suppress their personalities because they want the audience / fans to think that they're likeable.
 
So, overall...Ashley deserved the win. Her performance was strong and innovative but imo over marked. She's a little full of herself and maybe rightfully so. But her swagger doesn't draw me to her, more makes me look for a different ice queen. Gracie came through nicely but needs to connect more strongly to that music and make it a performance. I agree with those who say she needs to branch out with her music selection. I think the Polina factor is an unknown. She's relatively mature in her comments for a 16 year old. But the fairy costume and music were all wrong for a senior event. Karen Chen seems like a little powerhouse but at just 15 she, too, has the puberty factor to contend with. I am happy she's too young for Worlds and can develop off the senior radar for a little while. I thought of Caroline Zhang and how, sadly, she made this dynamic debut at the same age and then, sadly, struggles today at 21 to be in the middle of the pack and probably retire. Mirai continues on the road of wrong turns and disastrous happenings. BUT I think she should hang in. She is still a sentimental favorite and has the potential. It's for another thread but I see Gracie top 5 at Worlds, Ashley top 10 and Polina, if she's chosen, falling off the radar.
 
So, overall...Ashley deserved the win. Her performance was strong and innovative but imo over marked. She's a little full of herself and maybe rightfully so. But her swagger doesn't draw me to her, more makes me look for a different ice queen. Gracie came through nicely but needs to connect more strongly to that music and make it a performance. I agree with those who say she needs to branch out with her music selection. I think the Polina factor is an unknown. She's relatively mature in her comments for a 16 year old. But the fairy costume and music were all wrong for a senior event. Karen Chen seems like a little powerhouse but at just 15 she, too, has the puberty factor to contend with. I am happy she's too young for Worlds and can develop off the senior radar for a little while. I thought of Caroline Zhang and how, sadly, she made this dynamic debut at the same age and then, sadly, struggles today at 21 to be in the middle of the pack and probably retire. Mirai continues on the road of wrong turns and disastrous happenings. BUT I think she should hang in. She is still a sentimental favorite and has the potential. It's for another thread but I see Gracie top 5 at Worlds, Ashley top 10 and Polina, if she's chosen, falling off the radar.

Funny, but it is precisely because she is so deliciously uncensored that I love her. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I find her refreshingly REAL, after so many skaters who seem as equally well-drilled in PR as they are in skating skills.

And I wouldn't write Polina off so quickly. People did that with Caro, and look how that turned out (well let's forget about the post-Sochi period for the moment, shall we?).
 
Give me a Michelle Kwan. She did her posturing on the ice. I know, she never was an Olympic champion. To me that had nothing to do with ability or mental toughness; it was bad timing and luck and the way the cookie crumbles. I appreciate someone with a strong sense of "self". It's how the person uses that confidence.
 
This is just my opinion, so please don't jump on me. I just watched the performances of the top 4 and I'm pretty astonished, for lack of a better word. Ashley clearly deserved to win here but that score... I have no idea where that came from. I can see it in the protocols but not on the ice. I mean it's awesome what she did. She dares to go out there and try to do all that difficult technical stuff that is new to her. And she does a pretty good job at it. But this was like double-Nationals inflation. I didn't see the 10 points gap between her and Gracie. Obviously there was the flip. But still I felt the rest of the elements didn't merit such generous GOE for Ashley. Also performance-wise I didn't feel much difference here. Both music selections leave me underwhelmed. So does the interpretation. I see that Ashley is better able to project but I actually think Gracie has the better constructed program in terms of transitions and such. Had Gracie skated clean I'm afraid she wouldn't have won the FS either. Of course you can argue that her PCS would have gone up with a clean program. But honestly not by that much. I do think Gracie should have won the FS had she stood up on the flip. Obviously this is pointless because she did not. I feel internationally these two programs would have scored about the same and that is in the 135 range. Just my opinion of course. In any case this win was Ashley's so it probably doesn't matter in the end if the margin was too large.


What I take away from this is that Ashley should be applauded for always trying to up her content and be competitive. And being able to deliver it as well as she did. And that Gracie should be given credit for being able to hold it together. She really did a pretty good job.
Overall, Ashley certainly deserved to win. So congratulations to these two for a competitive shwoing and a great fight.

Lastly, I believe Ashley's FS score was unbeatable even before Gracie took the ice which is a message I have trouble interpreting.
 
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