2016 Autumn Classic Men's Free Skate

[skylark]

Someone said (sorry can't remember who, and don't have time to go back) that Yuzuru wasn't and/or wouldn't be happy about winning with these programs with the mistakes.

This is one thing I think is very important. Figure skaters at this level are all to some level perfectionists, highly motivated competitors, strict with themselves as either a natural part of their personality or as a result of their incredible training. This is yet another problem with the scoring system as currently structured.

When skaters get high PCs because of their reputation, not because of the actual performance, it's damaging to skaters. And to audiences and FS as a whole.

 

[HanDomi]

Someone said (sorry can't remember who, and don't have time to go back) that Yuzuru wasn't and/or wouldn't be happy about winning with these programs with the mistakes.

This is one thing I think is very important. Figure skaters at this level are all to some level perfectionists, highly motivated competitors, strict with themselves as either a natural part of their personality or as a result of their incredible training. This is yet another problem with the scoring system as currently structured.

When skaters get high PCs because of their reputation, not because of the actual performance, it's damaging to skaters. And to audiences and FS as a whole.

Hanyu pcs was actually quite low, but he is always judged this way in Canada But I don't have problem with that score. That's early in the season, and this is not yet on level that he propably will be later in the season

 

[Interspectator]

For me it was not Yuzu's pcs that were too high, but Misha's that were too low. 4everchan, what did you think about Misha's speed? It seemed to me that though everything was done neatly and visibly clean, on the live feed he seemed to be going slow-ish till that last burst of speed at the end and also backing into his jumps carefully without too many transitions. Loved the way it ended though. It was a great building of music and Misha Drama.
The one that seemed fastest to me out of the last group was Keegan.
Daniel is all drama and no substance to me, in contrast to Misha. I know he can do much better. When he does his programs and his jumps work out, it has impact.

Max was such a plesant surprise, I caught myself smiling through that program. It's a winner. The shirt is hillarious with the muscles spray-painted on.

 

[Meoima]

Someone said (sorry can't remember who, and don't have time to go back) that Yuzuru wasn't and/or wouldn't be happy about winning with these programs with the mistakes.

This is one thing I think is very important. Figure skaters at this level are all to some level perfectionists, highly motivated competitors, strict with themselves as either a natural part of their personality or as a result of their incredible training. This is yet another problem with the scoring system as currently structured.

When skaters get high PCs because of their reputation, not because of the actual performance, it's damaging to skaters. And to audiences and FS as a whole.

Hanyu got 86 PCS which is quite lower compared to what he often got (from 92 to 98). If anything, I'd say in Canada they always judge Yuzuru harsher than others.

 

[Khoai]

Other disappointment for me is the music... it's so simply boring... Sorry to those who like this sort of stuff. I am a musician and I have well-defined limits to what I consider music or just filler. This is to me, really good elevator music. There's no substance into it, and it makes me wonder what Yuzu will do to have a program with substance.

Once Mr Patrick Chan's free skate come out with another kind of elevator music composed by Mr. Eric Radford, you will say: "Oh this music should get a grammy".

Coming from a family of musicians, this comment irks me the wrong way. "Because I am a musician... I have the rights to judge some music."

"Because I am a writer, this book is a trash to me."

"As I am a designer, this design is totally crap."

Great contribution.

 

[Mango]

Yuzuru's PCS in Canada reflects what he puts on the ice. If he did his NHK 2015 or GPF 2015 performances in Canada, he'd be getting amazing PCS too. You need only look at his PCS in the SP to understand that. But if you want to perpetuate the idea that international judges in Canada are harsh on Yuzuru please continue to do that.

4everchan is a music purist and even dislikes crossover music. He isn't targeting Yuzuru in particular. He didn't like Eric's music from the Olympic season either if I remember correctly.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Sorry to those who like this sort of stuff. I am a musician and I have well-defined limits to what I consider music or just filler. This is to me, really good elevator music. There's no substance into it, and it makes me wonder what Yuzu will do to have a program with substance.

Well, musician or not, while I get not liking this type of music, Joe Hisaishi as he is better known (or Fujisawa Mamoru) is a well known composer and it is kind of really offensive to call it elevator music. The LP music is a combo of his View of Silence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-GPay8lSZs
and Asian dream song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiEyKrUl5yQ

As I said, I totally get not liking it, tastes and all, and I am still not used to the cut they made and I don't think Yuzuru is expressing it well right now, except perhaps during the first two minutes or so considering the issues. One thing about Hisaishi's music for me is that he allows the story to speak for itself. I think this is where Yuzuru needs to do more in order to truly work with Hisaishi's pieces. Anyway, elevator music it is not.
(for anyone not familiar with him check out the Budokan concert, some of my favourite pieces were done there, the man is a master https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9mGQU7rGGM)

One important point for me in Yuzuru's choice of music is that it is a famous Asian composer. I am very happy new people are being introduced to it (whether they end up liking it or not). BTW, Elizabet Tursynbayeva's FS is also to his music.

Regarding Yuzu's jumps : some jumps are flawless. Just text book. But when he misses, one has to wonder how he can land so many with such a tilt. As I said, Yuzu is just picking up on the season and I am sure everything from the program will be better and better and better. As expected by me, the 4T is UR. He was exhausted. Good on him for achieving still the best skate of the night.

Thank you very much for the rest of the report! I was wondering if he looked exhausted live too because he looked knackered on my screen and the jumps seemed to go as a consequence of that. I do think it'll settle down and he'll be able to express more as he gets a hold of it.

Thanks for talking about Misha too, I loved both his programs so was curious to see how it looked like live. I'm glad you had fun!

 

[Rissa]

Catching up on Mens Free and I've got questions:

Did Max change his music cut since Nebelhorn? I don't remember one of the songs in the middle, I think it's not from the original movie? Overall, it all seems to flow pretty well. The choreo isn't bad, Max needs to rip into thise africanesque rythms, the potential is there. Hoping to see it improve across the season! :thumbsup:

Why didn't Misha go for a quad in the Free? What's up with his layout, how did he zayak like that? Can somebody tell me where he made a mistake, one of those 3Fs shouldn't be there. To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with this very conservative program from Misha. I much prefer his SP.

Is Daniel Samohin injured or is this his normal state at the start of the season? I know he's hardly Mr. Consistent but that was bad even for him. Such a shame too because the program looks great. And I love the costume, hahaha. He and Kolyada seem to represent similar style, I love it, not gonna lie.

What was that bizarre 3A-1T-1Lo thing from Yuzuru? I guess he was afraid he'd zayak after popping the quad, he needs a lesson in making plan Bs. But the music goodt, the choreo seems very nice, he just needs to get into it more and he'll have another winner. Costume is so perfectly classically Hanyu that the only complaint I can imagine about it is "the same old the same old".

 

[Khoai]

4everchan is a music purist and even dislikes crossover music. He isn't targeting Yuzuru in particular. He didn't like Eric's music from the Olympic season either if I remember correctly.

There is no such thing as music purist. Either you are an obnoxious musician or not, that is all.

 

[statmam]

Reading the protocol, it seems Keegan didn't miss any element and still came in quite high in the order. I was confused because the music seemed to continue but in a different tempo and when he restarted, the music continued in the same tempo as before he had stopped. As well, I think the bootlace came undone during a jump he popped. I need to watch the video.

I hope he takes it as a valuable experience.

Thank you, Violet B and Ice C. Perhaps this incident will prompt some Monday morning discussions between coaches and skaters about their Plan B for such situations. I'm impressed that Keegan kept his head and was able to cram so many improvised elements into the short time that remained. I wonder what a pair would do - harder (and more dangerous) to improvise with two people.

 

[DiamondDust]

yuzu was next. Cell phones... screams... everything happening at once. I can now say that i am one or the very few people who have witnessed a 4Lo live. Now : if I were to judge this program as a judge, which means, today and as is, I'd mark Yuzu pretty low on PCS. There were way less transitions than usually, way less difficult entrance etc. I think a lot more work will be done with CHoreo as well. I was especially disappointed with the hydroblade followed by ina bauer. that's exactly what he had last year no? Other disappointment for me is the music... it's so simply boring... Sorry to those who like this sort of stuff. I am a musician and I have well-defined limits to what I consider music or just filler. This is to me, really good elevator music. There's no substance into it, and it makes me wonder what Yuzu will do to have a program with substance.

I don't mind the hydroblade and Ina bauer to be included in the program but I thought they were out of place and did not blend in with the music (or could be that Yuzuru didn't get the timing right? It seemed to me he was rushing towards the end). I hope he and Shae-lynn can do a little editing.

Okay, what actually surprised me is Joe Hisaishi's music thought of as an elevator music (err... it's probably due to personal tastes but calling it elevator music is just...:dev2: ).

Nonetheless, (your report) is an interesting read!:agree:

 

[ice coverage]

I'm hyped to see this lion king program from Max... Mainly because all the YouTube videos from Lombardia cut out the last minute or so? What was up with that?

Catching up on Mens Free and I've got questions:

Did Max change his music cut since Nebelhorn? I don't remember one of the songs in the middle, I think it's not from the original movie? Overall, it all seems to flow pretty well. The choreo isn't bad, Max needs to rip into thise africanesque rythms, the potential is there. Hoping to see it improve across the season! :thumbsup: ...

Yes, after Lombardia, Max changed his music.

At Lombardia, it included Elton John's "Can You Hear The Love Tonight?".
At Autumn Classic, that section was replaced by "He Lives In You."

Really love seeing Max embrace The Lion King :dance2:.
No offense to Elton John, but I think the music change is for the better.

Sarah, b/c of the glitches in Lombardia streaming, a complete video of Max's FS there did not become available until quite a few days after the fact.
A near-complete fancam video from Lombardia (missing only a bit at the beginning) also exists.
Links to both are in Max's fan thread, if you still would be interested at this point.

 

[Sydney Rose]

Hanyu got 86 PCS which is quite lower compared to what he often got (from 92 to 98). If anything, I'd say in Canada they always judge Yuzuru harsher than others.

They're punishing Hanyu for "stealing" that Olympic Gold Medal away from Canada. I was actually told this by some (sane) Canadian friends of mine. They also told me that many Canadian FS fans also blame Brian Orser for Chan losing to Hanyu and accuse Brian of not wanting another Canadian to win an OGM because he never won one.

I told my friends that I thought this was nuts and they agree with me. So we're still friends.

Given the likely anti-Hanyu bias and yesterday's news of yet another recent injury (ankle sprain), I wish Yuzu would just skip Skate Canada and give himself more time to recover physically. He could still do NHK and then go on to Japanese Nationals, Four Continents perhaps, and then Worlds.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Once Mr Patrick Chan's free skate come out with another kind of elevator music composed by Mr. Eric Radford, you will say: "Oh this music should get a grammy".

Coming from a family of musicians, this comment irks me the wrong way. "Because I am a musician... I have the rights to judge some music."

"Because I am a writer, this book is a trash to me."

"As I am a designer, this design is totally crap."

Great contribution.

Except 4everchan didn't say anything like your "examples". His words are:

I am a musician and I have well-defined limits to what I consider music or just filler. This is to me, really good elevator music. There's no substance into it, and it makes me wonder what Yuzu will do to have a program with substance.

I think it's a well qualified (grammatically) statement and not dismissive of Hanyu. As to your prediction of his future unequivocal praise of Patrick's LP music, be informed that 4everhan is an equal opportunity music purist/snob. He is reserving judgement on Eric Radford's composition, but, IIRC, has categorized it as elevator music from a few seconds sampled. I have to wait to see if he would call it really good elevator music like Hanyu's.

As for

"Because I am a musician... I have the rights to judge some music."

Everybody here, including yourself, judges figure skating without bothering with qualifications. Some even consider themselves the ultimate authorities having the final say about skaters and their performances.

 

[Fayruza]

They're punishing Hanyu for "stealing" that Olympic Gold Medal away from Canada. I was actually told this by some (sane) Canadian friends of mine. They also told me that many Canadian FS fans also blame Brian Orser for Chan losing to Hanyu and accuse Brian of not wanting another Canadian to win an OGM because he never won one.

I told my friends that I thought this was nuts and they agree with me. So we're still friends.

Given the likely anti-Hanyu bias and yesterday's news of yet another recent injury (ankle sprain), I wish Yuzu would just skip Skate Canada and give himself more time to recover physically. He could still do NHK and then go on to Japanese Nationals, Four Continents perhaps, and then Worlds.

Fat chance of Yuzuru skipping the GP series, yeah...

 

[Jaana]

They're punishing Hanyu for "stealing" that Olympic Gold Medal away from Canada.

LOL, yes, that is quite funny considering that Hanyu skated before Chan and gave the latter every chance to win the gold medal.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Thank you, Violet B and Ice C. Perhaps this incident will prompt some Monday morning discussions between coaches and skaters about their Plan B for such situations. I'm impressed that Keegan kept his head and was able to cram so many improvised elements into the short time that remained. I wonder what a pair would do - harder (and more dangerous) to improvise with two people.

I haven't re-watched the program but it's been pointed out that he missed two spins and that he doesn't have GP assignments. Despite the unfortunate incident, he can be proud of how well he still did and how composed he was. I hope he will get a replacement GP assignment or two with this impressive showing.

Speaking of Pairs, there are two examples by Zhang Hao. At the Olympics when his partner Dan was injured, he stopped to help her off the ice to be examined. He was, however, severely criticized for continuing his skating when his partner Peng fell. Well, when a partner falls, unless s/he is obviously injured, the other partner should of course continue with the choreography and keep up with the music for the fallen partner to join back in. It is his job and duty to keep the choreography going.

As to equipment malfunction, there seems to be usually an allowance of time for the problem to be resolved, with penalty. I remember also Dylan Moscovitch lending his skates to an American skater who went back to finish his program. Keegan's case last night I still don't understand. I think Oda was the one with the worst case of wrong timing for equipment breakdown. Takahashi's incident at Worlds was dramatic as well, though it had been an on going issue.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I actually thought 86 was quite reasonable for that FS. I'm not a fan save for the last minute or so - not like last year's program which immediately captivated me. And he didn't seem committed (the arms in particular were noticeably lazy/sloppy) or comfortable with it (I'm sure the errors were not helping). I mean, come on.. The guy has 4 errors including two falls, so-so quality of spins (please get rid of the butt spin Yuzu!), and just an okay performance elsewhere, and people are expecting 90 PCS?!

As for saying he came unprepared (a la Trump), that's too harsh -- remember, he still did 2 quads and 2 triple axels, and landed the 4L in both programs. I also notice he's getting more into his edges. He's got miles to go but this was a solid effort at this point in the season at a competition that didn't have any stakes.

Really love his SP and when he's more comfortable and commits more to it I can totally picture him emulating Prince to the t. The white outfit is a bit WWHT, but it IS Prince, so I think it arguably suits Prince's eccentricity. Love the colours/gradient of his LP outfit, but could do without the shredded white fabric over his shoulder.

 

[TGee]

They're punishing Hanyu for "stealing" that Olympic Gold Medal away from Canada. I was actually told this by some (sane) Canadian friends of mine. They also told me that many Canadian FS fans also blame Brian Orser for Chan losing to Hanyu and accuse Brian of not wanting another Canadian to win an OGM because he never won one.

I told my friends that I thought this was nuts and they agree with me. So we're still friends.

Given the likely anti-Hanyu bias and yesterday's news of yet another recent injury (ankle sprain), I wish Yuzu would just skip Skate Canada and give himself more time to recover physically. He could still do NHK and then go on to Japanese Nationals, Four Continents perhaps, and then Worlds.

Sydney Rose, I'm Canadian and spend much of the week at a relatively high level club where our kids train. Hear the gossip, and have never, ever heard a smidgen of what you report your Canadian friends having claimed.

While folks are exasperated that Canadian world champions seem to have an issue at the Olympics, if there was frustration at the judging at Sochi it wasn't in the men's event.

I don't hear about an anti Yuzu spirit here at all. In fact, what I hear is cheering for skaters from other countries, with Yuzu one among many, that train in Canada. It may be difficult to hear the Canadian voices in Yuzu or Javier's fan fests given their global popularity, but check out some of the others training in Canada and you'll see we're cheering for them.

Folks have wondered over the years if certain skaters and teams might be better off training at one of the Canadian elite centres rather than in the US. But there is recognition that fit is important and cost has been an issue. When the Canadian dollar was high, training in the US was less expensive, now it's the opposite. Canadians are very aware of this.

 

[TGee]

I haven't re-watched the program but it's been pointed out that he missed two spins and that he doesn't have GP assignments. Despite the unfortunate incident, he can be proud of how well he still did and how composed he was. I hope he will get a replacement GP assignment or two with this impressive showing.

Speaking of Pairs, there are two examples by Zhang Hao. At the Olympics when his partner Dan was injured, he stopped to help her off the ice to be examined. He was, however, severely criticized for continuing his skating when his partner Peng fell. Well, when a partner falls, unless s/he is obviously injured, the other partner should of course continue with the choreography and keep up with the music for the fallen partner to join back in. It is his job and duty to keep the choreography going.

As to equipment malfunction, there seems to be usually an allowance of time for the problem to be resolved, with penalty. I remember also Dylan Moscovitch lending his skates to an American skater who went back to finish his program. Keegan's case last night I still don't understand. I think Oda was the one with the worst case of wrong timing for equipment breakdown. Takahashi's incident at Worlds was dramatic as well, though it had been an on going issue.

Thanks for this VB.

I'm struggling with the way the Ref handled it.

In my, albeit limited, experience at the music and announcing end of the stand, we would have been looking to the Ref for a decision to stop the music as soon as he stopped, pulled up his pant and pantomimed pulling st his laces and looked for a signal.

In this case, I was wondering if the Ref wasn't concerned to be transparently fair and waited for him to skate over to the stand as indicated in the rule. But it didn't take him 40 seconds to get to the stand, and the music just kept going and wasn't returned to the correct point.