2017 Four Continents Men SP

[TontoK]

Yes, because they are missing all those pesky things that make a program that much more difficult and complex so their jumps are pretty much what's left. Remove the steps, the transitions, stop bothering with skating skills, interpretation, quality spins, etc and suddenly programs get a whole lot easier. The 'veterans' can jump too, they just have a much more overall difficult thing on their plates. One quad less, a single jump, in Hanyu's case is nothing compared to the difference in overall quality that skews towards him. And since skating is still figure skating and not jumping on ice, I'll take the 'veterans' who (not counting the awkward middle child Hanyu in terms of age) at 26 and almost 26 are still medal holders and contenders while they're superior overall skaters, in both the components and jumping technique.





Hanyu Yuzuru is about to graduate from Waseda University, he's reading Human Informatics and Cognitive Sciences so I'm not sure where you are going with that.

By all means, you should root for your favorites. Mine has been Javier. I was a big Jason Brown fan, but I've become bored. I'm glad Josh Farris is returning, although I think it will be hard for him to be competitive technically (I simply love his style). I like Max Aaron's bull-in-a-china-shop approach. I love many skaters of bygone eras. I like most of the Russian Olympic champions, except for Urmanov (whose skating I loathe) I've never much liked Hanyu or Chan, but to each his own.

Although I love my favorites, I embrace the newer skaters when I see merit. I see merit in Chen and Shoma. Again, your opinions may differ.

Good for Hanyu working towards his education. The only place I'm going with my statement is that, by some accounts, Nathan Chen doesn't intend to compete for as long as some skaters do. Nothing wrong with that or with an extended career. It depends on the skaters goals.

 

[Tavi...]

I when I saw this thread was so long because I worried I somehow missed the event!

But nope, just quad discussion.

Nathan seems most likely to skate clean. He's been doing this same layout all season. Hanyu, too.

I don't even know what Han Yan is doing, I love his skating, but my god, try landing your old layouts before throwing in more quads just because

I saw a really brief clip of Han Yan yesterday and he looked really good. It's was just a few seconds so not much to see, but what I saw looked good! Not too many people are predicting him for top 6, but I'm wondering if he's a dark horse even if not medal contender.

 

[tureis]

Here's what I think: the ISU needs to look very carefully at this competition and the ones leading up to the Olympics next season, evaluate what these guys will actually be able to execute vs their planned content, with what GOE marks, match the jump content to transition scores, keep track of how many injuries will be reported, and then if necessary, consider limiting the number of quads per program starting from the next Olympic cycle.

We need well-rounded skaters, not jumping machines. We need interesting programs, not jump setup after jump setup. We need great performances worth remembering, not mistake-ridden splatfests. We need skaters who can spend at least a few years in the senior ranks of this sport to become established, household names people can actually recognize from one season to the next before they cripple themselves.

Seriously, I was going to list a number of things I'm intrigued to see at 4CC this year, but pretty much the only one worth wishing for is that everyone comes off the ice on their own feet and leaves South Korea healthy. Jeez, and I thought that horrendous fall from Javi at Euros and him having to ask to be helped off the damn podium was a scary sight...

 

[Mrs. P]

As far as the "little kids" argument. Mrs. P, you know I admire you, but that's a red herring. In every sport, elite athletes with more ability than others will rise to the top. It doesn't matter if it's figure skating or tennis or the NBA.

Of course I know there will be athletes with more ability. However, ability isn't the only factor in being a success. Elite athletes also rise because of their work ethic, persistence and competitive drive.

But my earlier point is there are cautionary tales of people who basically, in trying to rush through the process, ended up injured or basically having to re-learn technique.

You say Jason bores you, which is fine, but I think it's pretty cool that he wanted to set an example of how to manage an injury recovery while trying to compete. Being a role model in the sport is a valuable role to play, which is why a lot of people like Jason in spite of his lacking technical ability (again relative to other elite skaters, obviously).

You keep saying you admire me ...but I'm not sure, lol.

 

[andromache]

I saw a really brief clip of Han Yan yesterday and he looked really good. It's was just a few seconds so not much to see, but what I saw looked good! Not too many people are predicting him for top 6, but I'm wondering if he's a dark horse even if not medal contender.

Han Yan has been one of my dark horse favorites for far too long. It always ends in heartbreak. :hopelessness: But I'll look forward to him anyway. Maybe having Boyang around has motivated him some?

 

[TontoK]

Of course I know there will be athletes with more ability. However, ability isn't the only factor in being a success. Elite athletes also rise because of their work ethic, persistence and competitive drive.

But my earlier point is there are cautionary tales of people who basically, in trying to rush through the process, ended up injured or basically having to re-learn technique.

You say Jason bores you, which is fine, but I think it's pretty cool that he wanted to set an example of how to manage an injury recovery while trying to compete. Being a role model in the sport is a valuable role to play, which is why a lot of people like Jason in spite of his lacking technical ability (again relative to other elite skaters, obviously).

You keep saying you admire me ...but I'm not sure, lol.

I assure you, I admire you.

I don't always have to agree with everything someone says to respect her. I find you knowledgeable, friendly, and receptive to different opinions. And not preachy.

What's not to admire?

 

[karne]

I am hoping for PBs for all of the Team Australia skaters!

 

[Tavi...]

Han Yan has been one of my dark horse favorites for far too long. It always ends in heartbreak. :hopelessness: But I'll look forward to him anyway. Maybe having Boyang around has motivated him some?

Maybe!

https://twitter.com/kyurling/status/831356188344406017

 

[Mrs. P]

I assure you, I admire you.

I don't always have to agree with everything someone says to respect her. I find you knowledgeable, friendly, and receptive to different opinions. And not preachy.

What's not to admire?

Ha, I was sort of joking -- but honestly, the "I admire you part" always seem to come before why one of my opinions are "meh" LOL. I wouldn't mind if that came when there was an opinion you liked, ha.

 

[gsyzf]

Compared to Nationals, the only change in his LP layout is the order of his 4T, then the 4T-2T-2Lo?
(curious if he really lands five quads again or sticks to a 4-quad program).

It looks like Chen is switching the order of 4t and 4t-2t-2lo as a preparation for repeating 4lz, i.e. the 1st 4t is the placeholder for doing a 2nd 4lz next season.

 

[frida80]

It looks like Chen is switching the order of 4t and 4t-2t-2lo as a preparation for repeating 4lz, i.e. the 1st 4t is the placeholder for doing a 2nd 4lz next season.

What he needs to do is get used to doing a 3F+3Lo instead of his 3F+3T. That will open up a lot of options in increasing his difficulty.

 

[CoyoteChris]

What is the record number of pages for discussing a comp. BEFORE it has started?

 

[Mrs. P]

In sad news Grant Hochstein's grandmother passed away: https://twitter.com/Grant_Hochstein/status/831635314821042177

I hope that Grant got to spend some time with her before he went to 4CC.

 

[waxel]

From Mrs.P, That's just asking for injury and bad technique.

I've so many soloists try fouettes and some of them travel into the next room because they can't hold center.

Give me Patrick and a 3 quad program along with his beautiful deep edges, fast and centered spins, and his ability to lull an arena full of fans into a quiet trance any day of the week.

Patrick's SP is glorious. I cannot wait to see it live in Helsinki.

 

[s_parks]

What is the record number of pages for discussing a comp. BEFORE it has started?

Not near 28, as far as I remember! Sheesh, we really might pass 35 before it starts...

 

[gsyzf]

What he needs to do is get used to doing a 3F+3Lo instead of his 3F+3T. That will open up a lot of options in increasing his difficulty.

3f3lo is more risky and he doesn't get much extra points for -3lo combo. Also 3lo isn't his best jump. Even skaters whose best jump is 3lo struggle with -3lo combo and can't land -3lo combo cleanly consistently. Probably not worth the risk.

 

[Crossover]

Wow already 28 pages!

 

[zebobes]

What he needs to do is get used to doing a 3F+3Lo instead of his 3F+3T. That will open up a lot of options in increasing his difficulty.

I think that a 3Lutz+1/2Lo+3F is more likely for Nathan's jumping skills than a 3F+3LO.

My secret hope is that Nathan will do a 4T+4T, a 4Lutz+3T, and a 3Lutz+1/2Lo+3F as his combos someday. But at the same time, I hope that he will have a longer skating career for us to enjoy, but it most likely that he will pursue his college studies after the 2018 olympics.

 

[frida80]

3f3lo is more risky and he doesn't get much extra points for -3lo combo. Also 3lo isn't his best jump. Even skaters whose best jump is 3lo struggle with -3lo combo and can't land -3lo combo cleanly consistently. Probably not worth the risk.

I only say it because he has two +3T combos, which automatically means he can only repeat one other jump. If he replaces the 3T with a 3Lo he can repeat his lutz and keep his two 4T as is, since his 4T is is best quad.

 

[el henry]

Ha, I was sort of joking -- but honestly, the "I admire you part" always seem to come before why one of my opinions are "meh" LOL. I wouldn't mind if that came when there was an opinion you liked, ha.

I'm sorry, completely OT, but can't resist, and it reminds me ....

When a trial attorney says "With all due respect, Your Honor", what he means "You don't know what you're talking about, Your Honor" ...but it needs to be said nicely. Practical legalese