2017 Four Continents Men FS

[Lys]

Then why incorporate a second 4T as his backup if it potentially hurts him --or even have one at all (like Kim avoiding the 3L)? Clearly he feels that it's not particularly compromising if he's including one in the first place and opting to switch a 3Z to a 4T that could possibly aggravate the fracture.

Also, this thread has tons of posts within minutes and, most surprisingly, we don't read every one of yours, just an FYI.

Do you really like to play dumb, eh?

Because by someone who says to know even a bit of figure skating (or any sport, really), I guess you should know the difference between TRAINING for a layout (doing and redoing that jump ad nauseam) and throwing an emergency combo out of blue.

 

[Ares]

I overslept Men FS (well I had party last evening ... ), just caught up with watching.


Poor Patrick

Lots of errors on jumps, even one of the spins was quite bad for his standards.

Still he gave beautiful performance with even more nuance than before.


Congrats to Nathan, Yuzuru and Shoma (that first Quad Loop?!). Hanyu seemed strangely slow and cautious ... but maybe this is because of camera view.

With inflated PCS marks that Chen already gets other men really need to skate 100% to beat him when he nails multiple quadruples. Nathan does not deserve 9s for Skating Skills or Composition for sure, there is jump, jump, jump, jump - two-foot skating - jump.


I think that this big, dynamic, pompous music plays to his strengths, masking certain shortcomings as it goes well with big jumps - surely helped to get couple points more. I enjoy watching him though and this program is good for him, so kudos for that.

 

[Sweet Dream]

I am afraid that my poor heart can no longer afford such unprecedentedly intense competitions among these top guys. To my big surprise, Yuzuru lost the fight to Nathan in the end! Anyway, the mens' final results are acceptable to me, and Jason is still the best performer on ice in my heart!

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Then why incorporate a second 4T as his backup if it potentially hurts him --or even have one at all (like Kim avoiding the 3L)? Clearly he feels that it's not particularly compromising if he's including one in the first place and opting to switch a 3Z to a 4T that could possibly aggravate the fracture.

Ehh, isn't it quite obvious that training something twice the amount (which 2x 4T does compared to 1x 4T) is more taxing for the affected body parts? And that throwing it out there once is very different from practicing it every day, multiple times? Maybe we need to go back to the basics here, sometimes we forget those a little. 2 > 1. Maybe that clears it up
Also the injury is basically healed, but the point is that these things come back fast if you repeat the same mistake. And they want to pro-actively avoid it coming back at all.

Also, this thread has tons of posts within minutes and, most surprisingly, we don't read every one of yours, just an FYI.

Oh, I just assumed because you usually find everything you could jump at so fast to exaggerate it into something I didn't even say. I will accept you just read the stuff that is worth it.

 

[xeyra]

My predictions:

Shoma will stepout on his 4Lo but otherwise will be clean.
Boyang will land all his quads but single his 3A, again.
Patrick will get all his quads but fall on a 3A, again.
Nathan will get all his quads but fall on a 3A just because.
Yuzuru will land all his quads and then fall on a 3Lz just because.
Han Yan will land a beautiful 3A just 'cause.

Checking my earlier post, none of my predictions actually came true. At least neither Nathan or Yuzu had the fall I predicted, thank goodness. I never actually expected Shoma to fall on his 3A twice, though, not when 4Lo was supposed to be the HARD element! And PChiddy's 3A has actually been super reliable lately. Han Yan's issues with his, though, are the worst of all.

 

[andromache]

As much as i like Jason's spins, i've to say that TES is a joke.

79 with no quads, a single axel, a double sal and a hand down on the triple loop?

The bv of that FS is the lowest of the top 12.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/fc2017/fc2017_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Apparently you don't know how TES is calculated...not only the BV of jumps is considered - there's also spins and steps, and then the Grade of Execution or "GOE" which award points based on the quality of the elements. He received negative GOE for the appropriate elements, but also a whole lot of positive GOE.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Then why incorporate a second 4T as his backup if it potentially hurts him --or even have one at all (like Kim avoiding the 3L)? Clearly he feels that it's not particularly compromising if he's including one in the first place and opting to switch a 3Z to a 4T that could possibly aggravate the fracture.

It was a 4T on the fly, his back up is usually another 4S.

In practices when his 4S isn't that good, he sometimes jumps it again instead of the 3A-3T. So the idea was to do the 4S again, except he changed his mind and decided to land the 3A-3T nicely first because he was feeling too 'tight' there. After the 3A-3T, he said he realized he had enough strength so decided to add another 4T then, even though in his words, he's never done a 'simulation' of that sort before and was calculating in his head the number of combinations he could do. It's simply stable enough that he can throw it in when he wants to but the injury is almost assuredly preventing him from practicing that way with them, the way he does with the 4S. He does odd combinations with that 4S in practice, just in case, anything from 2S-1Lo-4S to 4S-1Lo-4S and he's also actually practiced throwing in a quad as the last jump (instead of the 3Lz) since pretty much the start of the season, so this is why in the end it turned out so well for him. It wasn't totally out of the blue, even though the jump was switched and probably why the 3A was not an issue either, apart from its overall stability.

Still, as Li'Kitsu says, a second 4T is not really the best idea for him because practices are different and repeated jumping of the 4T for either 'emergency practice' on top of normal one or simply doubling the amount for a 2 4T layout would be risky and it's best to avoid recurrence. Simply put, he can afford to be careful because he has viable options. But it is obviously an excellent emergency back up on the fly when the rest doesn't work out. It's that good of a jump for him and frankly, it's not even as good as it used to be prior to the injury. But it's still more than good enough.

 

[Tolstoj]

Apparently you don't know how TES is calculated...not only the BV of jumps is considered - there's also spins and steps, and then the Grade of Execution or "GOE" which award points based on the quality of the elements. He received negative GOE for the appropriate elements, but also a whole lot of positive GOE.

I know that some of his mistakes here usually costs more for other skaters.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Do you really like to play dumb, eh?

Because by someone who says to know even a bit of figure skating (or any sport, really), I guess you should know the difference between TRAINING for a layout (doing and redoing that jump ad nauseam) and throwing an emergency combo out of blue.

It's pretty obvious that he has trained this emergency layout before. Unless you enjoy playing dumb too. :sarcasm:

 

[teeannroo]

It's pretty obvious that he has trained this emergency layout before. Unless you enjoy playing dumb too. :sarcasm:

Pardon me for butting in but in the K&C he was explaining all his thoughts to Brian so I'm pretty sure it was last minute

 

[Interspectator]

Pardon me for butting in but in the K&C he was explaining all his thoughts to Brian so I'm pretty sure it was last minute

Yeah, in the kiss and cry Brian was like, umm...what was that? Also, in an interview I translated a few pages up, he explained that he did have a back up plan, but it didn't feel right. So he did an impromptu one.

 

[Lambari]

I think this Rafael x Yuzuru interaction wasn't posted on this thread yet.


It's an exemplar of an Ice Jewels magazine.

 

[da96103]

From a psychological perspective, I think Yuzuru losing here to Nathan is better for Yuzuru going into Worlds. For the past two years, he has gone into Worlds as the favorite, and lost. Going in as the second favorite, with something to prove and to fight for (Olympics 2014?) might prove more successful for him psychologically.

As much as I love both Nathan and Yuzu, I'm kind of actually hoping Javier pulls out another win, though with Shoma as well, I have no idea if he will even podium.

I agree. I wrote the same sentiments earlier but someone rebutted that he is not an underdog for losing only one competition.

But still he is more 'underdog' now compared to the last two seasons going into Worlds. And that is psychologically beneficial. He did win OGM as an underdog.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Yeah, in the kiss and cry Brian was like, umm...what was that? Also, in an interview I translated a few pages up, he explained that he did have a back up plan, but it didn't feel right. So he did an impromptu one.

Oooh thank you very much, I hadn't seen the long version.
But goodness...

 

[da96103]

By the way, obliquely related, Vincent Zhou became the 4th man to land the 4Lz with positive GOE in competition in Bavarian Open, though he carotted both 4S.

 

[xeyra]

By the way, obliquely related, Vincent Zhou became the 4th man to land the 4Lz with positive GOE in competition in Bavarian Open, though he carotted both 4S.

Who is the other man aside from Nathan and Boyang? I thought the 4Lzs Brandon Mroz landed were with negative GOE.

 

[da96103]

Who is the other man aside from Nathan and Boyang? I thought the 4Lzs Brandon Mroz landed were with negative GOE.

Brandon Mroz's was negative -GOE? I always had the impression that it was positive.

 

[xeyra]

Brandon Mroz's was negative -GOE? I always had the impression that it was positive.

Maybe he had a positive one somewhere, but what I've read people say is that the first one had a terrible landing so I assumed negative and I checked the one he did at NHK 2011 and it was with negative GOE too.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, in the kiss and cry Brian was like, umm...what was that? Also, in an interview I translated a few pages up, he explained that he did have a back up plan, but it didn't feel right. So he did an impromptu one.

He must have done this layout (replace a 3Z with a missed quad) before in training at some point. Skaters do runthroughs that are contrary to their planned layout all the time (although some will still Zayak).

Although him saying its impromptu OTOH does explain why the rest of the program there was obviously shifting choreo around and it looked like he was thinking through it/"figuring it out" so to speak.

Did he specify what his original plan B was? Clearly he made a smarter decision to put the missed quad earlier instead of as the final jump element when he's the most fatigued and can pull off an easy (for him) 3A. But I highly doubt that is the first time he faced that scenario in training (popping a quad and knowing to add it in later).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Maybe he had a positive one somewhere, but what I've read people say is that the first one had a terrible landing so I assumed negative and I checked the one he did at NHK 2011 and it was with negative GOE too.

That was ridiculous scoring - the jump was clean and the -2's were the judges dinging him for no entry steps (and being an unpopular skater they didn't turn a blind eye to the lack of steps as they tend to do with popular skaters).