2017 Worlds Free Dance

[yuna13]

3 words!!! 3 words!!! You never wondered why not a lot of p/c fan post stuff. Well it's because of people like you! I questioned dostani judgement since the sd at nhk, yes am I forbid to do so? Even romain was uncomfortable. Look at the shibs tes score!! When P/C make mistakes I am not blind. A want a FAIR competition. Did I say V/M didn't deserve to win the sd? No. Did I say that they're bad skater who are overrated? No. Don't you dare make a statement on my character, you can say what ever you want about what I write but me!!! You don't know me, I don't judge you, unlike you I don't say that you don't deserve Respect. Last I remember you made fun of me which I'm totally ok with.
Ancientpeas understands me you don't. To everyone else sorry for this.

 

[4everchan]

Speaking for myself, I do not feel any compulsion to be objective. I liked Cappelli and Lanotte the best. I aslo liked Weaver and Poje and Gilles and Poirier.

Looking forward, I thunk that Hubbell and Donohue will be given every chance to prove themselves next season on the Grand Prix circuit. I like both Shibutani & Shibutani and Chock & Bates, but I wouldn't mind if H&D shook things up a bit.

Have the rhythms for the short dance been chosen yet for next season?

being subjective in saying who are your favourites or whom you like best is fine

but trying to do some "objective" analysis of the elements and scoring requires some objectivity......

like posting a link saying that 'even the Montreal coach" are doubting the scores is hilarious as we all know that Romain is first and foremost P/C's coach.

 

[4everchan]

3 words!!! 3 words!!! You never wondered why not a lot of p/c fan post stuff. Well it's because of people like you! I questioned dostani judgement since the sd at nhk, yes am I forbid to do so? Even romain was uncomfortable. Look at the shibs tes score!! When P/C make mistakes I am not blind. A want a FAIR competition. Did I say V/M didn't deserve to win the sd? No. Did I say that they're bad skater who are overrated? No. Don't you dare make a statement on my character, you can say what ever you want about what I write but me!!! You don't know me, I don't judge you, unlike you I don't say that you don't deserve Respect. Last I remember you made fun of me which I'm totally ok with. Ancientpast understands me you don't. To everyone else sorry for this.

people like me? What does that mean?

P/C fans post a lot in here. I am not sure why you say that. And most of them complain that they were robbed... this is exactly the kind of behaviour many people don't like... let the judges and tech panel do their job... they are more qualified than you and I and also, they were there... it's so different to be at the rink compared to the stuff we see on tv...

when you start accusing judges or tech specialists, you are being disrespectful and accusatory. So before you tell me i make statement on your character

maybe look at yourself in the mirror and ask why I said that : simply because you are accusing a tech specialist of cheating.

That's all.

BTW her name is ancientpeas

 

[alain06fr]

your link is broken...

Here is the link:
http://www.rtl.be/sport/tous-les-sp...-par-les-canadiens-virtue-et-moir-905566.aspx

However, if you are looking for objectivity, you cannot say that the "Montreal coaches" are saying that the judges were biased here... The coach you are quoting is P/C's main coach... yes... they all train in Montreal... but it's not like all of them, Patrice, M-F and Romain sat down and agreed that there was "deux poids, deux mesures"... Patrice or Marie-France may have explained the deductions differently.

Be objective I did not write "the Montreal coaches", but "one of the Montreal coaches".

Another thing to consider : the mistakes made by the French were not represented in judges deduction but in TECH PANEL deduction.... the judges gave very high points in both GOE and PCS to P/C despite the small mistakes throughout the program.

You're right but the 9 judges can give you very nice GOES. Once your level is downgraded by the tech panel, you immediately loose 1.5 points at least.

As a matter of fact, some V/M fans are saying that the judges favoured largely P/C and are worried about the fact that despite mistakes in the SD, the judges scored them so highly... (...)

Haguenauer has a different point of view.
Would you say V/M fans are more objective than a coach who trains P/C but also V/M on a daily basis? BTW, Haguenauer knows extremely well the programs of both teams hence I expect his judgement is quite accurate. Haguenauer points out the scores given by the judges and nothing else. Obviously, both P/C and V/M themselves are not concerned by this debate imHo. They do whatever they can to deliver their best.

The annoying thing to me is that V/M got almost a SB with their FD in Helsinki and that's simply not possible imHo.

 

[Ice Diva]

As someone who loves both P/C & V/M, I'm so tired of the bitter posts insinuating shady judging in favour of V/M. Get over it. It was an awesome competition, fierce in fact, with falls, stumbles, mistakes, cut fingers as the teams really gave it their all. Everything a huge dance fan like me could have desired. And, love or hate it -- the best team won.

 

[yuna13]

people like me? What does that mean?

P/C fans post a lot in here. I am not sure why you say that. And most of them complain that they were robbed... this is exactly the kind of behaviour many people don't like... let the judges and tech panel do their job... they are more qualified than you and I and also, they were there... it's so different to be at the rink compared to the stuff we see on tv...

when you start accusing judges or tech specialists, you are being disrespectful and accusatory. So before you tell me i make statement on your character

maybe look at yourself in the mirror and ask why I said that : simply because you are accusing a tech specialist of cheating.

That's all.

I accused him of not being objective ( your fav word). That's all I never used the word cheating. See you put words in my mouth. And how many V/M fans complained about the judging during V/M vs D/W?

 

[4everchan]

whole post

thanks for the link

Not a bad article but i'd like to hear more about what P/'s coach thinks is unfair. Here is something you may want to consider. I agree with you that the coaches know the programs inside out. However, this is not my point here. My point is that not all the judges considered it to be on the element, hence the fact that the deductions are all over the place. So, my point here is that maybe a coach says something but the judges received it one way...

Regarding the levels lost : on the twizzles it 's clear that Guillaume had a hard time catching his blade and they lost a level... still the judges gave them high GOES on the twizzles.. for me they were wobbly. However, i have no been throwing accusations at them

I agree with Ice Diva here. I have a hard time with ice dance because in the top ten i like about 7 teams so to me, and that's where I was going with my objectivity post, I try to look at how the dances were performed

SD : V/M clear winners... actually, on "my scoring sheet" I had H/D in 2nd, Shibs in 3rd, Weapo in 4th and P/C only in 5... so be glad I am not a judge
FD : P/C clear winners... totally fine with their score. Weapo 2nd V/M third, shibs 4th italians 5th

Final result : I had VM, PC and Weapo on the podium...

so whatever but i didn't go all heads over heels in this thread to make a case that some skaters were robbed and that Mr. Tech Panel is a cheater. That's where I draw the line and that's the kind of behaviour I do not appreciate.

 

[4everchan]

I accused him of not being objective ( your fav word). That's all I never used the word cheating. See you put words in my mouth. And how many V/M fans complained about the judging during V/M vs D/W?

if you accuse a judge of not being objective, you are indeed accusing him of cheating... maybe it's a language barrier here but no... i am not putting words in your mouth, i am just following logically what you are saying and implying.

 

[Debs122]

being subjective in saying who are your favourites or whom you like best is fine

but trying to do some "objective" analysis of the elements and scoring requires some objectivity......

like posting a link saying that 'even the Montreal coach" are doubting the scores is hilarious as we all know that Romain is first and foremost P/C's coach.

Romain isn't just P/C's coach he coaches all the teams in Montreal including V/M. He needs to be very careful about what he says in public about the teams he coaches no matter how he feels personally. It was wrong of him to put a question mark on the win of a team he coaches. If he can't be impartial he needs to let V/M know and be removed as one of their official coaches.

 

[4everchan]

Romain isn't just P/C's coach he coaches all the teams in Montreal including V/M. He needs to be very careful about what he says in public about the teams he coaches no matter how he feels personally. It was wrong of him to put a question mark on the win of a team he coaches. If he can't be impartial he needs to let V/M know and be removed as one of their official coaches.

fair enough...

alain brought the article... saying that even a montreal coach thinks there was 'dubious judging"
I said, well, he is really first and foremost P/C's coach to sort of excuse Romain but also to put into perspective that i don't believe the judging was wrong

if you bring to the game that Romain is also an important member of V/M's team, then what Romain said, I agree with you, is out of line.... i always thought for some reason that V/M were being coached mostly by Dubreuil and Lauzon... and P/C by Romain... and Dubreuil and Lauzon...

In any case, if I were Marie-France, I would have a fit over the words as reported in the article...

 

[4everchan]

so on their ISU bios

Romain is listed first for P/C then D/L

and for
V/M
D/L are listed first and then Romain...

 

[Debs122]

Regardless of what position he's listed he's still considered part of their official coaches and he himself has said he works with them. If I were V/M I would be upset he tried to throw them under the bus. What are they paying him for then?

 

[yuna13]

if you accuse a judge of not being objective, you are indeed accusing him of cheating... maybe it's a language barrier here but no... i am not putting words in your mouth, i am just following logically what you are saying and implying.

Well for me there is a difference. One is human nature ( can make mistake or can be influenced by personal feelings) cheating is a sabotage and a robbery.i never used those words in this thread

 

[blancanieves]

i just rewatched the free dance:

H/D the heartbreak of the night. this season they had 3 chances at gpf: twizzles mistake ,at nationals : fall and here : fall. IN ice dance when you're the THIRD team of your contry you usually don't have opportunity to shake things up. not sure this will happen again specially during olympic season.

Well, I'm more of the view that H/D created these opportunities for themselves by raising the level of their skating over the past two seasons. Having trouble to capitalize on every opportunity shows they're still sorting some things out. But, overall H/D has succeeded in impressing upon the judges just how good they have become. They didn't just suddenly decide to hand H/D a Worlds small medal out of the goodness of their heart.

The fact that their national ranking has been less and less a factor in how they are scored internationally speaks to how undeniable the quality of their skating is. If they continue to skate to this higher standard, they should be able to contend for podium placements again, in the Olympic year and beyond.

 

[cocotaffy]

Not a bad article but i'd like to hear more about what P/'s coach thinks is unfair.

I believe RH mentioned they didn't understand which missed step (or missed edge ) justified a level 3 on 1 of the step sequence but I don't know which step sequence he is talking about.
I think their performance value was very good in the SD tbh because missing a level on a step sequence is not visible to most untrained eyes so it really doesn't impact the PCS (perf, interpretation and transition) hence those high PCS. The twizzles but specifically the one is missed was a bit more visible but still it was not a stumble or even a balance check, otherwise the rest of the twizzles looked good so once the level is downgraded high GOEs can be awarded. Anyway, P/C have said in interviews they take full responsibility for their shortcomings in the SD and that blaming the judges is not right, looks like they're more mature than their own coach, good for them.

I would just say this about V/M's FD, a stumble on the contrary to missed levels is a very visible mistake which does take away from the performance and disrupt the flow of the program, which, compared to singles, is at the heart of an ice dance performance, so it should definitely be reflected in the PCS specifically in the Performance and Transition (as it happened on a transition and not on a step seq). So I did expect lower PCS. Scott also had a quite wobbly first twizzle and they kind of travelled apart on the second set. Basically, their twizzles sequences was tense. I mean they performed this FD much better at GPF and NHK. Their world perf was tense and not up to their standards like P/C's SD was not up to their standards.
Basically, I think the results are fine in the end, but I thought V/M's Fd could have been more in the 114/115 range but as you said we are no judges or tech panel.
Both teams have the motivation to start the season. They're great champions and seems to get along.

 

[4everchan]

I believe RH mentioned they didn't understand which missed step (or edge missed) justified a level 3 on 1 of the step sequence but I don't which step sequence he is talking about.
I think their performance value was very good in the SD tbh because missing a level on a step sequence is not visible to most untrained eyes so it really doesn't impact the PCS (perf, interpretation and transition) hence those high PCS. The twizzles but specifically the one is missed was a bit more visible but still it was not a stumble of even a balance check, otherwise the rest of the twizzles looked good so once the level is downgraded high GOEs can be awarded. Anyway, P/C have said in interviews they take full responsibility for their shortcomings in the SD and that blaming the judges is not right, looks like they're more mature than their own coach, good for them.

I would just say this about V/M's FD, a stumble on the contrary to missed levels is a very visible mistake which does take away from the performance and disrupt the flow of the program, which, compared to singles, is at the heart of an ice dance performance, so it should definitely be reflected in the PCS specifically in the Performance and Transition (as it happened on a transition and not on a step seq). So I did expect lower PCS. Scott also had a quite wobbly first twizzle and they kind of travelled apart on the second set. Basically, their twizzles sequences was tense. I mean they performed this FD much better at GPF and NHK. Their world perf was tense and not up to their standards like P/C's SD was not up to their standards.
Basically, I think the results are fine in the end, but I thought V/M's Fd could have been more in the 114/115 range but as you said we are no judges or tech panel.
Both teams have the motivation to start the season. They're great champions and seems to get along.

this the kind of post i enjoy reading.. thank you...

i bolded parts I agree a lot with.

 

[Barb]

I agree that the almost fall of Scott should be more penalized in some way. But W..TF., how is possible a member of your coaching team is doing that kind of comments? :scowl:

 

[Anyasnake]

I agree that the almost fall of Scott should be more penalized in some way. But W..TF., how is possible a member of your coaching team is doing that kind of comments? :scowl:

Has any of you huys thought that the sentence was taken completely out of context ? I'm sure he is not that stupid, but I would like to see what he said before and after.

It might have been something like : "Scott almost fell at the very VERY end of the step sequence and not in the middle. So it didn't cost them a lot."
Or something like : "He didn't actually fell, and got back really fast and it wasn't on something too important, so..blablah"

I mean come on : 1)He's their coach
2)Don't forget that Didier made quite the fuss about the result so the press will turn it the way they want because what's better than an angry Didier 10 months before Pyeongchang ?

The results are what they are, end of story. I personally, too, wouldn't have put it that way but I am no judge. (I'm talking points, not placements)
(BUT C/L DESERVED HIGHER MARKS THAT'S ALL I SAY)

 

[Mango]

Romain was doing this interview in French, right? He probably never even thought they'd read it.

But hey, if there's one team who's got experience with not having a coach in your corner it's V/M.

 

[Rossig]

if you accuse a judge of not being objective, you are indeed accusing him of cheating... maybe it's a language barrier here but no... i am not putting words in your mouth, i am just following logically what you are saying and implying.

Do you really believe that judges are always fair and objective? In the history of figure skating we had lots of cases of unfair judging. I'm not saying it was the case this time, but I'm surprised that you truly believe that judges' decisions are always right.